News Article: Devcore is willing

[Micklebot]

giggle. you guys are arguing over trains. Which is better? Thomas or Percy?

Steamies all the way over those dirty diesels

 

[Micklebot]

I don't see there being an issue with moving people to and from games at Lebreton. Not like everybody in Ottawa drives to work downtown and the make due.

- Arena will only hold ~17000.
- 15 min walk to Kent street opens up a bunch of parkades as well as street parking along the way if you are willing to walk that far,
- 15 min walk down Preston or Booth to Summerset adds a bunch more parking options along the way
- ~500 parking spots included in the arena (my guess is this likely will accommodate mostly VIP and Staff).
- I’m guessing the condo’s will have some public parking, not sure how much though.
- LRT will be able to move approximately 13K in half an hour (6000 west, 6000 east, 1000 south)
- Local buses will still exist.
- Much more will be walking distance, some people will walk home, and some will walk to the night scene. People will go from work directly to games

The idea that Ottawans are allergic to the bus really doesn't make sense to me.

 

[coladin]

I don't see there being an issue with moving people to and from games at Lebreton. Not like everybody in Ottawa drives to work downtown and the make due.

- Arena will only hold ~17000.
- 15 min walk to Kent street opens up a bunch of parkades as well as street parking along the way if you are willing to walk that far,
- 15 min walk down Preston or Booth to Summerset adds a bunch more parking options along the way
- ~500 parking spots included in the arena (my guess is this likely will accommodate mostly VIP and Staff).
- I’m guessing the condo’s will have some public parking, not sure how much though.
- LRT will be able to move approximately 13K in half an hour (6000 west, 6000 east, 1000 south)
- Local buses will still exist.
- Much more will be walking distance, some people will walk home, and some will walk to the night scene. People will go from work directly to games

The idea that Ottawans are allergic to the bus really doesn't make sense to me.

Maybe it will make sense to change the start times to 7pm. This will probably work better for the after work crowd

 

[Micklebot]

Maybe it will make sense to change the start times to 7pm. This will probably work better for the after work crowd

I think we moved to 7:30 to accommodate those who were traveling through loads of traffic and fighting the tail end of rush hour to get to games. The LRT isn't affected by traffic, so I think you're on to something here. That might also help draw out some families that felt games went too late to bring the kids to (I know, it's only a half our, but kids, and especially parents, get cranky when they lose sleep).

 

[stempniaksen]

Maybe it will make sense to change the start times to 7pm. This will probably work better for the after work crowd

Aren't we one of the only teams that has the 7:30pm start time for most home games? I figured that was built in to accommodate people's commutes home and then out to the rink.

 

[ottawah]

I don't see there being an issue with moving people to and from games at Lebreton. Not like everybody in Ottawa drives to work downtown and the make due.

- Arena will only hold ~17000.
- 15 min walk to Kent street opens up a bunch of parkades as well as street parking along the way if you are willing to walk that far,
- 15 min walk down Preston or Booth to Summerset adds a bunch more parking options along the way
- ~500 parking spots included in the arena (my guess is this likely will accommodate mostly VIP and Staff).
- I’m guessing the condo’s will have some public parking, not sure how much though.
- LRT will be able to move approximately 13K in half an hour (6000 west, 6000 east, 1000 south)
- Local buses will still exist.
- Much more will be walking distance, some people will walk home, and some will walk to the night scene. People will go from work directly to games

The idea that Ottawans are allergic to the bus really doesn't make sense to me.

Kent is quite a bit more than 15 minutes, but in any case that part of Ottawa is a wind tunnel, no one will be walking when the cold weather hits. Walking two blocks is a killer in that wind and cold temps. Local buses will be useless. Really its all about the LRT, thats gonna have to move 90% of the people.

 

[GCK]

Kent is quite a bit more than 15 minutes, but in any case that part of Ottawa is a wind tunnel, no one will be walking when the cold weather hits. Walking two blocks is a killer in that wind and cold temps. Local buses will be useless. Really its all about the LRT, thats gonna have to move 90% of the people.

Kent is about 15 minutes from the eastern end of Lebreton.

I get that Ottawa has cold winters but come on, other than two and a half months it's not that bad. Hockey season without exhibition and playoffs 6 months long, weather is such an over used complaint.

 

[Micklebot]

Kent is quite a bit more than 15 minutes, but in any case that part of Ottawa is a wind tunnel, no one will be walking when the cold weather hits. Walking two blocks is a killer in that wind and cold temps. Local buses will be useless. Really its all about the LRT, thats gonna have to move 90% of the people.

So, I just checked and Google maps has it at 20 mins, so I'm a bit off. As for cold weather, dress for the weather and you're fine. There's really only a dozen home games in a year in Jan and Feb where that's potentially a problem anyways,

 

[Masked]

First of all comparing the Redblacks to the Lynx. Brutal. The facilities and the infrastructure of lansdowne do not compare, Ottawa has almost 200,000 more people living here. The CFL is a way more popular and better league.

If minor league baseball is worse than minor league football, the city is significantly bigger now and the baseball stadium is worse than Landsdowne, it just proves my point that Ottawa will bandwagon any team that does decently in a new stadium.

But a CFL team in Ottawa has never drawn 600,000 fans unlike the Ottawa Lynx did.

The 67's attendance is down because they moved to the CTC for 3 years and everyone forgot about them on top of being brutal for almost a decade. Their attendance is getting better every game right now. But comparing hte 67's jr hockey team as a draw compared to an NHL franchise is again terribly flawed.

I did not compare the 67's to an NHL franchise. Learn to read better please. I was responding to your statement that, "People in Ottawa love sporting events that are downtown with a transparent organization that is commited to the city."

Are the 67's not downtown with a transparent organization that is committed to the city?

The Ottawa Senators averaged great attendance even on Tuesdays prior to the Alfredsson debacle while playing in Kanata. You are saying that if the team has committed ownership with a downtown arena with infrastructure that you still think people wont go to the games. Which based on this organizations history and a comparable of the draw the Redblacks have to a downtown stadium are indicators that moving downtown will help attendance.

Once again, please improve your reading skills. I said nothing about what I think Senators attendance will do. I implied that minor league football might not be so well attended if it happened on a Tuesday in January. But I repeated that again in the post you most recently responded to. How many times do I have to say things before you figure it out? Will the third time be the charm in this case?

 

[Masked]

You continue to ignore that 18,000 people waiting for the train at the same time is a completely unrealistic scenario.

I'm not ignoring it. I'm playing along with the assumptions that Count Melnyk is providing. But if you want to provide your assumptions less have at it.

• There will be a subset of people that already drive downtown for work and park in one of the many lots near Lebreton. These people would likely walk to the game and drive home after.
• There will be a subset of people who drive to the game and park in one of the many lots near Lebreton, and then drive home after.

Where are the many lots near Lebreton? And by that, I mean when the new arena opens, not what there currently is.

• There will be a subset of people who walk to and from the game (those who live in Centretown, Hintonburg, Little Italy, etc)

How many do estimate will fall into this category? And include the ones that will live at Lebreton as well.

• There will be a subset of people who Uber to and from the game (those who live in the Glebe, Carlington, Rockliffe, Hull, etc)

And how big will this group be?

• There will be a subset who continue to take the bus

From where ? The buses are getting replaced at Lebreton by the train.

Then, the remaining subset of people who do take the train are unlikely to take the train at the very same time. Some will leave early. Some will stay late and have a drink.

So if the maximum possible wait-time if everyone were to go to the station at the very same time is 90 minutes, we're in a very good spot. That means a realistic wait-time is likely to be 10-15 minutes.

You're forgetting that there will be other people taking the trains than just fans at the game. The usual transit users. Employees at the rink.

 

[Micklebot]

I'm not ignoring it. I'm playing along with the assumptions that Count Melnyk is providing. But if you want to provide your assumptions less have at it.



Where are the many lots near Lebreton? And by that, I mean when the new arena opens, not what there currently is.

~500 spots at the arena, likely new parking will be available at the condo's built. The War Museum has parking, possible that could be used. There's parking lots currently within a 15-20 min walk from where the arena will be as well as street parking. conservative estimate would be around 2000 spots in the area.

How many do estimate will fall into this category? And include the ones that will live at Lebreton as well.

What's important is how many more than currently. Currently the number who can do so is a pittance.

And how big will this group be?

Same as above, the number of people for whom this is an option will be exponentially bigger.

From where ? The buses are getting replaced at Lebreton by the train.

There will still be local buses. the 85, 10, 14, 16, 53, 11, 66 ect,. There will also likely be restaurants busing people in like we currently see. If the LRT isn't sufficient to meet demands, there is nothing stopping OC transpo from supplementing service with additional buses.

You're forgetting that there will be other people taking the trains than just fans at the game. The usual transit users. Employees at the rink.

Nobody is forgetting about them, they are just not going to be a major concern. Employees typically aren't arriving and departing at the same time as customers, and you aren't fighting rush hour traffic here. You also don't have 18k trying to go the same direction like you currently do.

 

[Tuna99]

Isn’t it crazy that in Arizona they have need of prelim talks move the team, we get updates from a non-existent hockey market about their ownership movements.

Ottawa has a bid in the team confirmed by the NHL, a rival group say they buy the team on the radio 2 weeks ago - Ottawa media doesn’t even ask who it is. Total silence on a legit sports and business story.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Ya'll know that downtown arenas work for 29 teams in this league, right? Saying Ottawa is some kind of unicorn that will fail doesn't add up. And for all we know, there might be amendments to the design once things progress that far that might expand parking, at the arena, as well.

 

[Stylizer1]

The math is pretty simple to figure out whether or not I took that into account - 15 * 600 = 9000, which is half of 18000.

Although I was curious about capacity for the Trillium Line and discovered that your numbers for the Confederation Lines trains were wrong. They have a capacity of 300, not 600 - Citadis Spirit - Wikipedia.

If you assume 4500 people each taking the four main transportation methods - train west, train south, train east, and car - then you're looking at a potential 15 * 6 = 90 minute wait for trains going east and west; much worse for the train south since it may have, at best, 9 minute headways. So a potential 2 hour wait going south.

What is with the LRT having seating like the buses? Seems like they like to waste space instead of maxing out capacity.

 

[Masked]

Ya'll know that downtown arenas work for 29 teams in this league, right? Saying Ottawa is some kind of unicorn that will fail doesn't add up. And for all we know, there might be amendments to the design once things progress that far that might expand parking, at the arena, as well.

Bruce Firestone has written about this in an article that has been linked to here more than once. In it he states that arenas need either a highway or a subway to move people out after the game. Most arenas in the league fall into 1 or 2 of those categories. And no, Ottawa's LRT is not a subway.

 

[Tuna99]

Bruce Firestone has written about this in an article that has been linked to here more than once. In it he states that arenas need either a highway or a subway to move people out after the game. Most arenas in the league fall into 1 or 2 of those categories. And no, Ottawa's LRT is not a subway.

Vancouver has light rail as well and it serves their stadium perfectly, so no worries if the train is above and below ground

 

[Upgrayedd]

Back to the commute discussion lol, those using the commute and traffic as a deterrent have to be some of the most stubborn closed minded people in the city...incredible stuff that people still think that way in 2018.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

I used to take public transit (Skytrain, fairly similar to Ottawa's upcoming O-Train) to and from games at Vancouver's downtown arena when I was living there. Yeah it was a bit of a cluster**** immediately after the games finished but they had good crowd control at the arena station and the fans generally cleared out pretty quickly. I don't think overcrowding at the Lebreton arena LRT station will be as big a deal as some people think.

Plus there are two stations, Bayview and Pimisi, plus there are two rail lines, Confederation and Trillium, that will service Lebreton Flats.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Kent is quite a bit more than 15 minutes, but in any case that part of Ottawa is a wind tunnel, no one will be walking when the cold weather hits. Walking two blocks is a killer in that wind and cold temps. Local buses will be useless. Really its all about the LRT, thats gonna have to move 90% of the people.

19 Minutes, from Lebreton Flats to Kent and Albert.

Google Maps

 

[NorthCoast]

Back to the commute discussion lol, those using the commute and traffic as a deterrent have to be some of the most stubborn closed minded people in the city...incredible stuff that people still think that way in 2018.

I'll admit that I have skimmed the last few pages.

Has anyone proposed alternatives (keep ctc, put in a subway, build flying buses?) or is this just a lot of fists waving in the air because they think that something won't work as well as they think it should?

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

I'll admit that I have skimmed the last few pages.

Has anyone proposed alternatives (keep ctc, put in a subway, build flying buses?) or is this just a lot of fists waving in the air because they think that something won't work as well as they think it should?

Someone suggested the EM should just remain in Kanata, and wait for the LRT to reach the CTC in a decade or so, and all his problems would be solved.

 

[Upgrayedd]

I'll admit that I have skimmed the last few pages.

Has anyone proposed alternatives (keep ctc, put in a subway, build flying buses?) or is this just a lot of fists waving in the air because they think that something won't work as well as they think it should?

Mostly the latter imo, not specific to Ottawa but very prominent resistance to change in this city. Frustrates me when people are so close minded in this day and age.

 

[GCK]

Bruce Firestone has written about this in an article that has been linked to here more than once. In it he states that arenas need either a highway or a subway to move people out after the game. Most arenas in the league fall into 1 or 2 of those categories. And no, Ottawa's LRT is not a subway.

So can I assume your main issue is that you don’t like LRT overall for the city.

Is this because you feel it is poorly planned or are you one of those citizens who has bigger city envy issues.

 

[branch]

This thread is so f***ing ridiculous.

Downtown arena = dumb. We shouldn't even bother.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

This thread is so ****ing ridiculous.

Downtown arena = dumb. We shouldn't even bother.

I guess all the NHL teams, with downtown locations, serviced by Public Transit all got it wrong, and should relocate to the fringe of their City, and surround there new Arenas with huge parking lots.