Devante-Smith Pelly Part 2

[Ezpz]

What forward depth ? They have almost none. Anaheim plays Maroon on the top line with Getzalf and Perry. They tried Sekac there when he got to Anaheim. That invalidates the forward depth argument. They have 3-4 really good players in Getzlaf, Perry, Kesler, Silfverberg/Beleskey but past that.. what do they have ? Sekac had a huge opportunity to play a lot of ice time there in an actual offensive role.

Rakell/Palmieri would be on our first line. They also had Fleischmann down the stretch who would be on our first line if he weren't a LW.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Rakell/Palmieri would be on our first line. They also had Fleischmann down the stretch who would be on our first line if he weren't a LW.

In the playoffs our first line was Patch-Plek-Gallagher...second like Galchenyuk-DD-PAP.

So, no they wouldn't. Fleischmann even less so.

Well.. maybe Palmieri would play on the 2nd line when MT gets fed up with Weise or PAP.

 

[The Nightman]

In the playoffs our first line was Patch-Plek-Gallagher...second like Galchenyuk-DD-PAP.

So, no they wouldn't. Fleischmann even less so.

Well.. maybe Palmieri would play on the 2nd line when MT gets fed up with Weise or PAP.

Palmieri is better than Weise and PAP, no doubt.

 

[Devourers]

Here you go:















So, DSP has an excellent AHL pedigree that cannot be written off, has had phenomenal success at every level he's played in, will come into camp in excellent "ripped" condition, has great hands and is a powerful physical presence without taking penalties who will generate 20-25 goal. Plenty of people ride his dick.

Now, can you provide similar examples regarding Sekac?



Love this.

Think Sekac has potential? Dick riding.

Think DSP has potential? Pumping his tires.



Hmm, I see. So the DSP zealots are a rare breed, but Tarasenko is a common rallying cry among Sekac partisans, is he? Let's see how many different posters you can quote as lamenting the loss of Tarasenko as a core part of their argument, shall we?



Which I agree with. However, I see far more "Sekac is a bust and DSP has far more upside" talk than the reverse. I mean, look at the quotes I provided above: Sekac doesn't have good hands, has a horrible pedigree (an argument you yourself have employed), is weaker, etc.

I said people ACT like we traded a future Tarasenko away, not that they specifically said he was another Tarasenko, reading comprehension mega failure.

Then you post a bunch of comments where 90% of them other than a few posters which I did admit existed, are basically pointing out the truth.

Also whether I said "I don't see people riding DSP's dick" or "pumping his tires" is quite irrelevant. They're effectively the same exact thing. I don't see nearly as many people making the assumption that DSP will be some juggernaut as I do people doing so for Sekac, and there's little evidence to favor either of them in comparison.

Just because some people posted accurate things like the fact that DSP actually has some pedigree doesn't mean they're riding his dick. A few of those comments were basically making as outlandish assumptions in favor of DSP I'll admit that, but if you read my post I even said a few people were just not as many as are with Sekac, and posting a few of those mixed in with some true statements about DSP's physicality doesn't change that.

Talk about grasping at straws when you post that stuff. So you effectively found 2-3 examples tops of it where as there's 2 threads littered with people outright assuming Sekac will be a superior player. Hardly proof of anything more than what I already said, that people are pumping Sekac's tires a lot more than anyone is willing to give DSP the same type of optimism, use whichever adjective for it you like though.

Neither player has done anything to justify the kind of hype and assumptions Sekac is getting in this thread. Difference is one guy has 2 threads worth of that optimism where as the other guy has a few quotes here and there which you mixed in with actual stated facts. Are you trying to say DSP hasn't proven more in other leagues in terms of goalscoring, or that his physicality doesn't exist? That isn't pumping his tires, that's stating facts. Facts which still don't give optimism for the player much legitimacy but fact still remains what both of them have done at the NHL level thus far isn't enough for me to be any more or less optimistic about either player.

If you're trying to tell me there's legitimate reasoning to think Sekac is a future top 6 player and in comparison DSP has zero potential you'll find plenty of people to convince here but I won't be one of them. Neither player has done much to justify that level of optimism.

 

[DAChampion]

I don't think that Sekac can become Tarasenko (???)

I do think that with his hands, speed, and solid defensive play he can become a legitimate second line winger.

DSP's ceiling is I think that of a third line winger. If he works his ass off and everything works out for thd best he czn become almost as good as Dale Weise.

 

[Mr. Hab]

I don't think that Sekac can become Tarasenko (???)

I do think that with his hands, speed, and solid defensive play he can become a legitimate second line winger.

DSP's ceiling is I think that of a third line winger. If he works his ass off and everything works out for thd best he czn become almost as good as Dale Weise.

Imo, Weise and DSP are great for our top 9 depth.
(especially that we don't have a Wayne Simmonds for our top 6-9).
Sekac will be a borderline 3rd liner (sometimes healthy scratch) on a good team (no grit, no finish)...or sometimes 2nd liner on an average team (non-playoff team).

Our top 9 depth for playoffs 2016-2017-2018 is looking good...and that's all that counts (playoffs). DD+PAP should be on the way OUT sooner than later. (IN...Hudon, Scherbak, McCarron...with Gallagher, Pleks, Galchenyuk, Pacioretty, Eller, Weise, DSP...).

Sekac?:
With Andrighetto, Reway, Bozon...some of you Sekac-lovers will not miss Sekac anymore. And, DSP has way more playoff-warrior potential VS Sekac...that's more than good enough for me.

 

[DAChampion]

Why do people use the term top-9 for players who should never be in the top-6?

 

[Whitesnake]

Why do people use the term top-9 for players who should never be in the top-6?

Great point. So that they wouldn't use bottom 6? I also love the expression "2-way" players for guys who have no idea where the opponent's net is. Unless they find it by accident a few times a year.

 

[Whitesnake]

What forward depth ? They have almost none. Anaheim plays Maroon on the top line with Getzalf and Perry. They tried Sekac there when he got to Anaheim. That invalidates the forward depth argument. They have 3-4 really good players in Getzlaf, Perry, Kesler, Silfverberg/Beleskey but past that.. what do they have ? Sekac had a huge opportunity to play a lot of ice time there in an actual offensive role.

I'd kill for a bad depth like Pat Maroon who ended up with 7 goals and 11 points in 16 games in the most important part of the season. They all would have been tried with us way more than DSP was except maybe Thompson and Wagner.

There's a limit you can go to prove a point. Now all of a sudden, our depth is so good that most Ducks wouldn't be able to make it?

 

[Sterling Archer]

Why do people use the term top-9 for players who should never be in the top-6?

Let's call it the Dale Weise rule.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

Great point. So that they wouldn't use bottom 6? I also love the expression "2-way" players for guys who have no idea where the opponent's net is. Unless they find it by accident a few times a year.

Plekanec being called a "great" two-way player drives me up the wall... he's not great offensively, in fact he's at best "low-maintenence" but he's far from great.

Let's call it the Dale Weise rule.

Well put. But he's not the first one - this city and its media has a hard-on for "lunch pail and bucket" kinda guys. The Gazette especially loved Kostopoulos, Darche as his ilk. I hate those kinda untalented, useless, non-physical players. DSP fits the bill because he's too slow to implicate himself physically in any effective manner.

 

[DAChampion]

Plekanec being called a "great" two-way player drives me up the wall... he's not great offensively, in fact he's at best "low-maintenence" but he's far from great.


Well put. But he's not the first one - this city and its media has a hard-on for "lunch pail and bucket" kinda guys. The Gazette especially loved Kostopoulos, Darche as his ilk. I hate those kinda untalented, useless, non-physical players. DSP fits the bill because he's too slow to implicate himself physically in any effective manner.

It is a general problem with the NHL that they, their systems and their media over-emphasize plugs.

In contrast, imagine an NBA where Joe Harris was the most talked about Cavaliers player and not LeBron James.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

It is a general problem with the NHL that they, their systems and their media over-emphasize plugs.

In contrast, imagine an NBA where Joe Harris was the most talked about Cavaliers player and not LeBron James.

I have a lot of time for 'good ol' Canadian boys' and would prefer more than less but effective talent should always trump everything else because to make the NHL even the Ribeiros and Kostitsyns have to work extremely hard to make it. Managing the talent and figuring out the balance between "playoff warriors" and duds should be the GM's job but at no point should plugs like Weise and DSP be in the discussion for a top6 role.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Why do people use the term top-9 for players who should never be in the top-6?

It's generally meant for a 3rd liner who can compliment the top 2 lines for a brief period of time like Dale Weise did. It's basically a bottom 6 player with enough offensive ability or hockey IQ to keep up on first two lines.

In other words Dale Weise and Lars Eller are top 9 players. Prust, Mitchell, etc... Are bottom 6. DSP, DLR are TBD.

 

[DAChampion]

I also don't like the term top-9 because it suggests that 75% of the forwards are "top". It's like a bad parody of liberal helicopter parents. In truth if you are at the 25th percentile you are not top anything.

 

[Mike Mike Caron]

I don't miss Sekac, but DSP has been quite discusting in terms of hockey play.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

It's generally meant for a 3rd liner who can compliment the top 2 lines for a brief period of time like Dale Weise did. It's basically a bottom 6 player with enough offensive ability or hockey IQ to keep up on first two lines.

In other words Dale Weise and Lars Eller are top 9 players. Prust, Mitchell, etc... Are bottom 6. DSP, DLR are TBD.

This is a fallacy. Just because they can "keep up" with a line doesn't mean they're good enough for that line. For instance, when Weise isn't hot (75% of his games) he flubs passes and has terrible positioning. He doesn't look out of place but destroys the whole balance of the line. Much like Gionta in his last two years - he looked like he kept up but he was always in the wrong place and always making the wrong decisions (Weise moreso than Gio).

Eller is a top9 player only because of the way we play - Pleks has two-way duties but the responsibilities of the other two lines are split between DD and Eller for offense and defense generally. On a more reasonable team with a more reasonable management and coaching structure this wouldn't be the case and Eller would be a two-way second line centre - that is, a top6 centre.

 

[417]

I don't think that Sekac can become Tarasenko (???)

I do think that with his hands, speed, and solid defensive play he can become a legitimate second line winger.

DSP's ceiling is I think that of a third line winger. If he works his ass off and everything works out for thd best he czn become almost as good as Dale Weise.

What hands?

As for solid defensive play, he's already stated he doesn't enjoy that part of the game...so i'm not sure what player you're referring to here, but it's not Sekac

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

What hands?

As for solid defensive play, he's already stated he doesn't enjoy that part of the game...so i'm not sure what player you're referring to here, but it's not Sekac

Your turn to make stuff up, huh?

 

[417]

Your turn to make stuff up, huh?

“It was hard,” Czech Republic native said when asked about making the adjustment to a more defensive style. “I was playing as a defensive forward. I was out there playing on defensive faceoffs and it doesn’t seem like it, but that sucks a lot of energy out of you and you have nothing left for offence.

“It wasn’t all bad (but) I’m not a huge defensive player and I couldn’t play like I wanted to play. I never got a chance to prove what I can do. That’s probably the biggest reason it didn’t work out.”

I know you've seen these quotes cause I've posted them several times...but keep telling me i'm making stuff up lol

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

“It was hard,†Czech Republic native said when asked about making the adjustment to a more defensive style. “I was playing as a defensive forward. I was out there playing on defensive faceoffs and it doesn’t seem like it, but that sucks a lot of energy out of you and you have nothing left for offence.

“It wasn’t all bad (but) I’m not a huge defensive player and I couldn’t play like I wanted to play. I never got a chance to prove what I can do. That’s probably the biggest reason it didn’t work out.â€

I know you've seen these quotes cause I've posted them several times...but keep telling me i'm making stuff up lol

So, no quotes saying he doesn't like defensive play. You made that part up yourself. Gotcha.

 

[417]

So, no quotes saying he doesn't like defensive play. You made that part up yourself. Gotcha.

You're desperate huh? You realize when I made that first statement, I was paraphrasing...I wasn't going for the direct quote

But please...tell me what's the difference between someone saying

"I'm not a big defensive player"

and me saying

"He doesn't enjoy that part of the game"

???

Ridiculous...

Maybe instead of saying that, I should wrote "Jiri Sekac is not a big defensive player" in response to the comment of him being a "solid defensive player"

Is that better? You gonna be ale to sleep tonight?

 

[Dannyhab]

So is DSP on the team next year or what?

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

You're desperate huh? You realize when I made that first statement, I was paraphrasing...I wasn't going for the direct quote

But please...tell me what's the difference between someone saying

"I'm not a big defensive player"

and me saying

"He doesn't enjoy that part of the game"

???

Ridiculous

You don't see the difference? Well, no one is surprised at this point.

 

[417]

So is DSP on the team next year or what?

I don't see why he wouldn't be...he's under contract, he'll get a chance to fight for a spot on the team.