Post-Game Talk: Detroit wins 4th in a row! Wings 2 - Ducks 1

[ArGarBarGar]

Ease up on the personal shots. Attack the argument, please.

 

[Actual Thought*]

So what should we be? In first place? Blowing teams out? You tell me.

And I'm only defending Blashill because the accusations against him are so absolutely absurd. Notice how it's always in response to the same person? Uh, that's not a coincidence, dude.

I've also criticized his line combos, and pointed out several things I don't like that he does. Even made a thread saying he grossly misused Glendening earlier this season.

We should be scoring more goals than we are giving up. That is where we should be. You say you have pointed out these things he does but yet you place zero responsibility on him for the team's performance. 8snake is right. You are an apologist because you were so convinced Blashill's fresh voice was gonna be some magic potion. He was going to turn Jurco and Kindl into superstars after Babcock had held them back. Now we know that ship has sailed. The team might be in the hunt for a playoff spot but they aren't playing good hockey. They haven't played more than a few shifts of good hockey all year. You were far more critical of Babcock while you beat the Blashill drum all last season. Post after post after post.

 

[Frk It]

We should be scoring more goals than we are giving up. That is where we should be. You say you have pointed out these things he does but yet you place zero responsibility on him for the team's performance. 8snake is right. You are an apologist because you were so convinced Blashill's fresh voice was gonna be some magic potion. He was going to turn Jurco and Kindl into superstars after Babcock had held them back. Now we know that ship has sailed. The team might be in the hunt for a playoff spot but they aren't playing good hockey. They haven't played more than a few shifts of good hockey all year. You were far more critical of Babcock while you beat the Blashill drum all last season. Post after post after post.

Not all of this is what I said, but I will level with you.

Do I think Jeff Blashill is a better hockey coach than Mike Babcock? No.

Did I think a change was needed for both Babcock and the Wings? Yes.

Has there been growing pains with the switch over? Yes.

All this said, we are in a fine place in the standings and not doomed like you regularly make us out to be. We are in 2nd in the division and 3rd in the conference, meanwhile you said we will be drafting top 10 this year in another thread.

Try embracing change. Babcock left us. He wanted to. We have a new guy, and we should try and stand behind him. He has made some mistakes, he deserves criticism for the things he does wrong. But it's not ALL bad.

 

[Actual Thought*]

Would love an explanation on this???

Can I discredit everyone that is a big Babcock fan???

We have seen solid improvement month to month in the new system. Are heading the right direction, have added a puck mover of substance for the first time since that year. Play with more pace and support all over the ice.

Yes I believe this is the best we have been since 2012, that is my opinion. It isn't based just on Blashill, though I remain a big fan of his system and the coach I believe he already is and moreso the one he is evolving into. But Green and Richards are solid additions, the young guys are further in development and we have a stud youngster up. The big three have seen a drop in play and we are still chugging a long.

Lots to like about this team... Two stud building blocks moving forward in Larkin and Mrazek... Plus lots of complimentary talent.

If we can land Buff look out in my opinion.

Either way this team isn't mediocre is the biggest point there. Their performance and results hasn't been in my opinion.

I agree with pretty much everything but the bolded. They haven't really improved and they absolutely do not play with more pace. This is the slowest puck moving Redwing's team I can remember. One and done followed by getting hemmed in the defensive zone is their MO.

 

[Actual Thought*]

Not all of this is what I said, but I will level with you.

Do I think Jeff Blashill is a better hockey coach than Mike Babcock? No.

Did I think a change was needed for both Babcock and the Wings? Yes.

Has there been growing pains with the switch over? Yes.

All this said, we are in a fine place in the standings and not doomed like you regularly make us out to be. We are in 2nd in the division and 3rd in the conference, meanwhile you said we will be drafting top 10 this year in another thread.

Try embracing change. Babcock left us. He wanted to. We have a new guy, and we should stand behind him.

We were a number 2 wildcard team like 4 games ago clinging to a spot by 1 point. We are the only team in playoff position other than the number 2 wildcard NJ with a negative goals differential. A 5 game stretch could land us in top 10 territory. That could happen in a heartbeat. Mrazek pulls a groin and we are toast. I am fine with change. I like Green. I like Larkin. I don't like Blashill. Not because he is new but because he is a pretentious boob. Is he the worst coach in the league? Nah. Is he or will he ever be one of the elite capable of winning a cup? Not by a long shot imo.

 

[Frk It]

We were a number 2 wildcard team like 4 games ago clinging to a spot by 1 point. We are the only team in playoff position other than the number 2 wildcard NJ with a negative goals differential. A 5 game stretch could land us in top 10 territory. That could happen in a heartbeat. Mrazek pulls a groin and we are toast. I am fine with change. I like Green. I like Larkin. I don't like Blashill. Not because he is new but because he is a pretentious boob. Is he the worst coach in the league? Nah. Is he or will he ever be one of the elite capable of winning a cup? Not by a long shot imo.

That's a lot more reasonable, IMO.

For what it's worth, as much as Babcock's lines and whatnot drove me up the wall, I routinely conceded on here he was/is STILL one of the best coaches in hockey. Pretty sure I called him the best several times.

After 10 years, I was anxious to see a change. Some aspects of turning over to Blashill have been underwhelming, but keeping Babcock wasn't even an option as far as I'm concerned. So what are you gonna do? We have stayed relevant regardless, but Mrazek bailed Babcock out after the allstar break last year too. If you want to play that card.

 

[14ari13]

I think there are alot of things to say about our team and roster. But if i could boil it down to 1 word I would say this:

Average.

Are former superstar talents Z and D and trending back towards "average" top line Centers.

We have alot of young guys Tatar, Sheahan, Nyquist, Abdelkader, Helm who are performing at an "average" rate at their respective positions.

Our 2 free agent signings are playing OK. Not amazing, not horribly... just about average.

We are getting decent goaltending.
We have a good Rookie and some average ones.

We just let the "best coach in the world" walk, and hired our AHL coach who has us in about the same position as last year (average). OVerall good move not paying 50 million for a guy we basically replaced for much much less

Bottom line is this is more of a TEAM than we have ever had before.

The Defense is an "everyone has to play well" for us to compete.
The Forwards is an "everyone has to play well" for us to compete.

Overall I am quite happy with how our team has played. Welcome to a team with no superstars created from solid drafting of lower level draft picks.

Both Mrazek and Larkin Are elite right now. Z and D Are elite centers. You and many others struggle to realise the points Are very hard to get.

I've let my ideas be known for several years, and they aren't much different than what many have posted here over that time. I don't claim to be smarter than everyone or think my ideas are bulletproof. This defense should have been torn down and rebuilt 2-3 years ago. Some of our younger forwards up front should have been moved and used as pieces to upgrade the roster. Right now every aspect of this team is underwhelming...we aren't a very big team, we aren't a very fast team, we aren't a very tough team, we aren't a very skilled team. We certainly arent a very entertaining team. We don't have a calling card...a strength that can dictate to opponents. We are the epitome of a average...of mediocre. What do I like? I love Larkin. He's a true building block. I think Pete has outstanding ability and if he finds that consistency in goal he can be a top tier goalie. Other than that...nothing on this roster excites me or has me optimistic.

This is just BS. You have to say concrete how we should rebuild defence. You could not come up with a single idea how anything could be improved.

We should be scoring more goals than we are giving up. That is where we should be. You say you have pointed out these things he does but yet you place zero responsibility on him for the team's performance. 8snake is right. You are an apologist because you were so convinced Blashill's fresh voice was gonna be some magic potion. He was going to turn Jurco and Kindl into superstars after Babcock had held them back. Now we know that ship has sailed. The team might be in the hunt for a playoff spot but they aren't playing good hockey. They haven't played more than a few shifts of good hockey all year. You were far more critical of Babcock while you beat the Blashill drum all last season. Post after post after post.

Yeah, the Devils, jackets, Habs, Rangers ... are playing great hockey.

 

[Winger98]

That's a lot more reasonable, IMO.

For what it's worth, as much as Babcock's lines and whatnot drove me up the wall, I routinely conceded on here he was/is STILL one of the best coaches in hockey. Pretty sure I called him the best several times.

After 10 years, I was anxious to see a change. Some aspects of turning over to Blashill have been underwhelming, but keeping Babcock wasn't even an option as far as I'm concerned. So what are you gonna do? We have stayed relevant regardless, but Mrazek bailed Babcock out after the allstar break last year too. If you want to play that card.

Also, we were essentially a bubble team last year. We had a 100 points, the cut off was 98, and Boston had 96. There wasn't much pressure beyond that, as no one else made any real push, but we weren't far from having to really fight for a spot. This year is pretty much the same, where despite adding a few guys, we've also seen Z&D show their age a bit more, and Kronwall slip a bit. Three steps forward, two steps back.

We're one of about 11 or 12 teams that now come into every season with realistic expectations of making the playoffs, and it just is what it is.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I mean this is the weakest the Wings have been at two key positions - C and D - since I've been in grade school.

Yeah it's been a pretty incredible 25 year run, I agree.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Ehhh I don't know if you're an apologist but you're probably a fanboy. I mean this is the weakest the Wings have been at two key positions - C and D - since I've been in grade school.

Yes, and for that whole time, the Red Wings have had the luxury of having some of the greatest players of not only Red Wings history, but NHL history at those positions. So forgive me if "the weakest their lineup has been since I was young" rings kind of hollow as a criticism to me.

There is absolutely no way that the Red Wings of now could possibly compare talent wise to the 90s and pre-lockout Wings. The 95-96 team could run a center lineup of Yzerman, Fedorov, Larionov, and Draper. They could run a top four defense of Coffey, Lidstrom, Konstantinov, and Fetisov.

The 2002 Cup team had nine Hall of Fame players, of which 3 were Cs (Larionov, Yzerman, Fedorov) and 2 were D (Chelios, Lidstrom) Hell, the roster even had a fourth potential Hall of Fame C in Pavel Datsyuk.

ANY roster would be "the weakest it's been since I was young".

 

[hyduK]

We were a number 2 wildcard team like 4 games ago clinging to a spot by 1 point. We are the only team in playoff position other than the number 2 wildcard NJ with a negative goals differential. A 5 game stretch could land us in top 10 territory.

The goal differential thing is hardly anything new. We've been hovering around a 0 goal differential for 3 seasons now. The last time we had a goal differential of > +10 in a season was 11/12. That's 3 seasons with Babcock where our goal differential was <+10...one year it was -8. It's hardly that much different than the teams that are surrounding us in the standings...we've now won 18 1-goal games...you add an empty netter in half those and we're +5. Wonderful, now we're +5, but that barely changes anything at all about our actual play.

Yeah, a 5 game stretch could land us in top 10 territory. I just hope you realize that's true for damn near every team not named Chicago/Dallas/Washington.
10 points separates 7th (us) from 25th. That's 17 teams in the middle where the same logic applies to a worse degree. The average goal differential in that pack is.....yep, -4. That's where the league is right now, there's parity in the standings, for many different reasons (teams getting closer in skill, the games being played in a way that results in a lot more 3 point games, etc).

The 6 teams above us are Washington, Chicago, Dallas, St Louis, LA and Florida. Outside of Florida those are all teams that people expected to be contenders at the beginning of the year. Florida just went on some ridiculous win streak, they're gonna be back in the same pack we are in a week or two.

The league isn't structured in a way where we're ever gonna have a chance of separating ourselves from the middle pack with the roster we're icing. Our D is a joke and has been for a few years now, even more noticeable with Kronners decline. Datsyuk and Z are both old and are surrounded by linemates who while good, still aren't in their prime. We no longer have an elite roster and people shouldn't expect us to play like one, just be somewhat happy that we're currently #2 out of all the teams in the group that we belong in (ie. the middle pack).

 

[DanZ]

The goal differential thing is hardly anything new. We've been hovering around a 0 goal differential for 3 seasons now. The last time we had a goal differential of > +10 in a season was 11/12. That's 3 seasons with Babcock where our goal differential was <+10...one year it was -8. It's hardly that much different than the teams that are surrounding us in the standings...we've now won 18 1-goal games...you add an empty netter in half those and we're +5. Wonderful, now we're +5, but that barely changes anything at all about our actual play.

Yeah, a 5 game stretch could land us in top 10 territory. I just hope you realize that's true for damn near every team not named Chicago/Dallas/Washington.
10 points separates 7th (us) from 25th. That's 17 teams in the middle where the same logic applies to a worse degree. The average goal differential in that pack is.....yep, -4. That's where the league is right now, there's parity in the standings, for many different reasons (teams getting closer in skill, the games being played in a way that results in a lot more 3 point games, etc).

The 6 teams above us are Washington, Chicago, Dallas, St Louis, LA and Florida. Outside of Florida those are all teams that people expected to be contenders at the beginning of the year. Florida just went on some ridiculous win streak, they're gonna be back in the same pack we are in a week or two.

The league isn't structured in a way where we're ever gonna have a chance of separating ourselves from the middle pack with the roster we're icing. Our D is a joke and has been for a few years now, even more noticeable with Kronners decline. Datsyuk and Z are both old and are surrounded by linemates who while good, still aren't in their prime. We no longer have an elite roster and people shouldn't expect us to play like one, just be somewhat happy that we're currently #2 out of all the teams in the group that we belong in (ie. the middle pack).

Also worth noting that we are +8 at even strength. We were +7 last year over 82 games... +8 over 43. So our even strength play has gotten slightly better. The major difference between our goal differential is our power play. If we were even middle of the pack on the PP our goal differential would be pretty solid.