Can we get off of Abdelkader's back already? He's not a first liner by any means but he compliments Nyquist and Zetterberg's game very well. He's been fantastic this year in making hits at the right time and has 4 points in 5 games right now. He's the grit Nyquist and Zetterberg can use to really compliment their game. He's not this possession killer some of you think he is. I swear to god if you guys had the reins of this team we would play Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan, Jurco, and maybe Franzen the entire game.
Pre-Game Talk: Detroit vs Montreal
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Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
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Let's be real though, the moment he makes a mistake he will be, and all of the good play he's had so far this season will be forgotten. It's just how this board works and it's gotten pretty old.
19 for president
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- Apr 28, 2002
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Abs if fine with Z. Z can play with pretty much anybody. Z has excellent hockey IQ but his game is fairly simple. The same is true of Nyquists. Most of his game is about skating and a quick move here or there. Thus I think Abby looks pretty good with them, but he is no Homer.
Thus he looks like crap with Datsyuk. Datsyuk needs high IQ players to really excel. He needs guys that can find the seams. Abby can't do that. He isn't a seem guy. He is a crash the boards/net guy. He isn't ever going to sneak into open lanes for a shot, or be ready for a behind the back pass, or have his stick just so for a perfect tip. That isn't his game, but it is Datsyuks. Dats thinks the game at an 11, and to even have a clue what he is doing you need to be a 7 or an 8. That is where Homer was at, and it still took them years to really develop chemistry.
Thus he looks like crap with Datsyuk. Datsyuk needs high IQ players to really excel. He needs guys that can find the seams. Abby can't do that. He isn't a seem guy. He is a crash the boards/net guy. He isn't ever going to sneak into open lanes for a shot, or be ready for a behind the back pass, or have his stick just so for a perfect tip. That isn't his game, but it is Datsyuks. Dats thinks the game at an 11, and to even have a clue what he is doing you need to be a 7 or an 8. That is where Homer was at, and it still took them years to really develop chemistry.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
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Would be foolish for people to disregard the good job he's done so far, but he will definitely be criticized for blowing chances up on line 1 if it does happen. But that's what 1st liners should do, score goals. And with the depth on this team, there's plenty of options. I think we have enough centers to put Sheahan on the wing, to occupy the big wing role, but provide a better finish.
Abby is great as a 3rd liner, just wish he would be more of a fixture there. It's frustrating some nights when he's not.
Love Abdelkaders motor and compete. If Franzen played as hard as Abby every night he'd probably score 40. But don't want to open that can of worms.
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Cyborg Yzerberg
Registered User
I've been a fan of Abby since he was a prospect, but the guy simply doesn't belong on the first or second line. Most of the time he's terrible at it, he's been pretty decent so far, but, yano, sample size.
hot dog
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- Mar 20, 2013
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For the long term I think the Nyquist, Zetterberg, Franzen line is working way too well to be split up. Abby slides in pretty much just fine when Franzen is down, honestly, which will probably happen a few more times this year.
Hard to match anyone up with Datsyuk. I actually like the idea of Helm on his wing, but we haven't really seen it yet too much. Tatar could be solid, but one of the reasons I think the kid line is so dangerous is his ability carrying the puck. Datsyuk would certainly take a majority of the zone entries and puck carrying duties on any line he's in, and I question whether that limits Tatar's effectiveness. Still, his shot is pretty damn lethal so he'd be nice to have with Datsyuk if he can get used to handling the puck a bit less.
Without Tatar I question the kid line's effectiveness. They really benefit from him holding onto the puck so much, and I'm not sure that Sheahan can have the same results taking over. Abdelkader and Jurco would be the logical linemates here, and (until Jurco develops a bit more) I'm just not sure that would be a very good possession line.
4th line will look good with whatever combination of Nestrasil, Miller, Glendening, and Andersson they trot out.
Based on this, I would actually love to try Jurco out with Datsyuk. Mantha would actually be my ideal player for the role in the organization, but obviously it's a bit early to think about that possibility. I don't think Babcock wold ever roll with this lineup, but I think it'd be solid:
Nyquist - Z - Franzen
Helm - Datsyuk - Jurco
Abby - Sheahan - Tatar
Miller - Glendening - Andersson/Nestrasil
Keeping Z/D together could still net you two great scoring lines with a Franzen/Nyquist duo on the second line, I'm just not sure I love any of our centers to fill that role on the team. If we want to give Weiss a shot at proving his worth, it'd be there. But that's just not going to happen with Babcock in charge, and with what we've seen it's not necessarily the wrong move either.
Hard to match anyone up with Datsyuk. I actually like the idea of Helm on his wing, but we haven't really seen it yet too much. Tatar could be solid, but one of the reasons I think the kid line is so dangerous is his ability carrying the puck. Datsyuk would certainly take a majority of the zone entries and puck carrying duties on any line he's in, and I question whether that limits Tatar's effectiveness. Still, his shot is pretty damn lethal so he'd be nice to have with Datsyuk if he can get used to handling the puck a bit less.
Without Tatar I question the kid line's effectiveness. They really benefit from him holding onto the puck so much, and I'm not sure that Sheahan can have the same results taking over. Abdelkader and Jurco would be the logical linemates here, and (until Jurco develops a bit more) I'm just not sure that would be a very good possession line.
4th line will look good with whatever combination of Nestrasil, Miller, Glendening, and Andersson they trot out.
Based on this, I would actually love to try Jurco out with Datsyuk. Mantha would actually be my ideal player for the role in the organization, but obviously it's a bit early to think about that possibility. I don't think Babcock wold ever roll with this lineup, but I think it'd be solid:
Nyquist - Z - Franzen
Helm - Datsyuk - Jurco
Abby - Sheahan - Tatar
Miller - Glendening - Andersson/Nestrasil
Keeping Z/D together could still net you two great scoring lines with a Franzen/Nyquist duo on the second line, I'm just not sure I love any of our centers to fill that role on the team. If we want to give Weiss a shot at proving his worth, it'd be there. But that's just not going to happen with Babcock in charge, and with what we've seen it's not necessarily the wrong move either.
WingedWheel1987
Registered User
Gator has been good, but i still don't want him on the first line.
Hopefully Datsyuk is back tomorrow.
Hopefully Datsyuk is back tomorrow.
I did too, but in the smallest sample size you can get in 1 pre-season game, it looked great. They were just in sync with each other.
I think it's because Tatar has that attack attack attack mentality and that it meshes well with Datsyuk creating his own space and being able to distribute to you when you're in a good spot.
drw02
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- Aug 10, 2013
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He's been making mistakes....unforced turnovers, inaccurate/poor passes, bobbled/missed pass receptions, dump ins when there was room to do more. That's all it can take to kill a scoring chance, bobble a pass for even a second and the defense will take advantage. Even his defensive play has been a little shoddy...just last game late in the 3rd, two brutal turnovers in the D-zone on the same shift that led to scoring chances for the Leafs.
I like the guy in the bottom 6 but he just can't keep up with skill players. Really Hank and Nyquist produce in spite of him. Sometimes he can be helpful (i.e. digging a puck out of corner) but most of the time he's an impediment to what they're trying to do.
Also agree Jurco should go down. Doesn't look like the same player we saw last year imo. Confidence seems to be down, looks hesitant, not playing as physical, losing a lot of puck battles.
newfy
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- Jul 28, 2010
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4 points in 5 games this year... Youre really nitpicking if you think hes blowing a bunch of chances, or seeing it biased because you dont like him up there.
Hes playing great right now and producing, until that changes he should be kept up there
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
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Article on getting tha kids going & the lines
http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2014/10/detroit_red_wings_seeking_ways.html
http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2014/10/detroit_red_wings_seeking_ways.html
Nyquist-Z-Abdelkader
Helm-Datsyuk-Sheahan
Tatar-Weiss-Franzen
Could be an interesting top 9, if Jurco does indeed go to the AHL. Like others, I am not against Jurco spending some more time in the AHL
It's actually more fun reading the Montreal thread, they show a lot more respect for our team than most of us.
From the Montreal thread:
"Lots to like about this Wing team in transition. This is building on the fly, folks.
Datsyuk and Z have peaked. Lidstrom is gone.
In comes the kids:
Sheahan now the number 2 C. Definitively. He's tenacious, big, strong, never quits and has some offense in it all. Centres the kid line w/ big board battler in Jurco and talented Tatar. Great, fun line to watch. They wilted a bit in the playoffs, but they're still green. Lots of chemistry here.
Abdelkader is making more sense on the top line after a few seasons of seemingly being a placeholder and/or poor replacement for Holmstrom. He plays his role better now. Fun to see him open space for Z and Franzen.
Nyquist is great. I had a discussion with someone on this forum last season about this young Wing core taking over. Nyquist is at the head of that. Hope to see him flourish and become a top level talent.
Glendening, Helm are solid bottom-6ers, continuing that same brand that personified Wing bottom-6 hockey the last couple of decades, spearheaded by the grind line (Draper, Maltby, McCarty) -- Helm's reminiscent of Draper in some ways. Lots of speed.
On D, similar young lineup: Smith moving up to top pairing; DeKeyser solidifying himself in the second pairing.
It's a fun, young Wings club, and a pretty solid job at rebuilding on the fly.
From the Montreal thread:
"Lots to like about this Wing team in transition. This is building on the fly, folks.
Datsyuk and Z have peaked. Lidstrom is gone.
In comes the kids:
Sheahan now the number 2 C. Definitively. He's tenacious, big, strong, never quits and has some offense in it all. Centres the kid line w/ big board battler in Jurco and talented Tatar. Great, fun line to watch. They wilted a bit in the playoffs, but they're still green. Lots of chemistry here.
Abdelkader is making more sense on the top line after a few seasons of seemingly being a placeholder and/or poor replacement for Holmstrom. He plays his role better now. Fun to see him open space for Z and Franzen.
Nyquist is great. I had a discussion with someone on this forum last season about this young Wing core taking over. Nyquist is at the head of that. Hope to see him flourish and become a top level talent.
Glendening, Helm are solid bottom-6ers, continuing that same brand that personified Wing bottom-6 hockey the last couple of decades, spearheaded by the grind line (Draper, Maltby, McCarty) -- Helm's reminiscent of Draper in some ways. Lots of speed.
On D, similar young lineup: Smith moving up to top pairing; DeKeyser solidifying himself in the second pairing.
It's a fun, young Wings club, and a pretty solid job at rebuilding on the fly.
They also don't watch every single Wings game and know the team as well as we do. Plus, when you're a fan of a team you're more likely to see the flaws. Those flaws are the things that you know will hinder you in a cup run. Fans of other teams don't see it from that angle.
I think putting Gus on a line with Tatar is a mistake. Tatar isn't a playmaker. His mindset is shoot first. He holds on to the puck for far too long and rarely looks to setup Sheahan or Jurco. At this point Gus is the far better scorer and having him on the same line as Tatar won't work IMO.
I'd leave Gus with Z and Abby. Tatar with Dats and Helm. Replace Tatar with Weiss on the Kid Line.
I'd leave Gus with Z and Abby. Tatar with Dats and Helm. Replace Tatar with Weiss on the Kid Line.
ricky0034
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- Jun 8, 2010
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This is how I think too. I hope we're wrong. Tatar need to learn how to use his team mates. Tatar is a great dangler, and got a good aim on his shoots, but I think he got a tendency to forget about his linemates too often.
Pass. We have plenty of players who are pass first. I love having a guy that shoots and makes things happen.
Really skilled players knows when to hold on to the puck and when to use his teammates. A pass puck moves much quicker than Tatar, no matter how quick he is. An important part creating a scoring opportuntiy is to force the goalie to move with an cross ice pass. A guy that always shoot is easy to read. Though Tatar is pretty good to find small holes so he can score sometimes anyway.
So tatar have some development to go through here. It's not about shooting, it's more of not getting the lines offense going.
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LeighDx59
Registered User
Sketchy on Abdelkader being on the top line, I would rather see Nestrasil there. But considering how well Abdelkaders done so far, why not? It would be awesome to see Nyquist/Sheahan/Tatar mesh well too.
Were supposed to hate them right?... RIGHT!?
Were supposed to hate them right?... RIGHT!?
Filppula
JV
- Oct 18, 2006
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Agreed. Love Tatar, but he does need to use his linemates more. But man his speed and energy are awesome.
Pavels Dog
Registered User
While it's always nice to see when other fanbases give some credit to the lesser known guys, indicating that they have watched more than just highlights, the overall impression from reading the Montreal threads is not that they think highly of the Wings.
Vladdy84
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