GDT: Detroit Red Wings vs. Carolina Hurricanes | 10/22/2018 | 7:30PM ET | FSD

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Can we talk more about just how bad Abdelkader has been on a very young team that desperately needs its veterans to step up?

9 games played, 0 goals, 1 assist, 9 shots on goal, -6 for +/-.


On the upside Bertuzzi is playing similar minutes to Abby and has 2 goals, 3 assists, actually hits people and plays with an edge, and is -2.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Can we talk more about just how bad Abdelkader has been on a very young team that desperately needs its veterans to step up?

9 games played, 0 goals, 1 assist, 9 shots on goal, -6 for +/-.


On the upside Bertuzzi is playing similar minutes to Abby and has 2 goals, 3 assists, actually hits people and plays with an edge, and is -2.

I think we talk about how bad everyone has been except Larkin and Cholowski, plus AA lately. Bert also seems to get a pass. I have seen pretty much everyone else whipped for their dismal play around here Gator prominently. He deserves it as he hasn't been good.

Most alarming with Abdelkader was despite his massive detractors feelings on him he has usually been good away from the puck and doing a lot of little things over the years. I at least understood why coaches liked him and I saw value in what he brought and how versatile he could be. However, he hasn't brought that either. This is up there with the worst stretches of hockey I have seen him play. He has been very bad this year.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

I think we talk about how bad everyone has been except Larkin and Cholowski, plus AA lately. Bert also seems to get a pass. I have seen pretty much everyone else whipped for their dismal play around here Gator prominently. He deserves it as he hasn't been good.

Most alarming with Abdelkader was despite his massive detractors feelings on him he has usually been good away from the puck and doing a lot of little things over the years. I at least understood why coaches liked him and I saw value in what he brought and how versatile he could be. However, he hasn't brought that either. This is up there with the worst stretches of hockey I have seen him play. He has been very bad this year.

Abdelkader has been a diminishing asset for several years now. If he wasn’t on such a terrible team, we’d receive a lot more outside scrutiny for his contract than we do, and justifiably so.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

The last goal the Canes scored was on the PK, outnumbered 6-4, on an odd man rush.

That's all you really need to know

I mean, I don't know how relevant that is. The Wings were set up in the zone or were setting up. That's the entire way that shorthanded goals happen. You get a couple forwards in deep or heading towards being in deep and you cough up the puck... you're no longer outmanning them 6-4. There are many many reasons why last night was an awful game. This is not one of them. They had to go all-out offense in the last minute to try to tie it up. A pass getting picked off and leading to an odd-man rush in that scenario is a likelihood. Look at the other 58 minutes of the game if you want to bash their ability.

I mean, with the way the play happened, you're going to have 2 to 3 of your players who are simply out of position to recover from an intercepted pass. You're going to have the 4th guy who made the errant pass or had the puck stripped and he'll probably be behind the play.

Look at the first two periods if you want to complain about this game and being undertalented. Being in a mad scramble with an empty net is no indication of anything.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I mean, I don't know how relevant that is. The Wings were set up in the zone or were setting up. That's the entire way that shorthanded goals happen. You get a couple forwards in deep or heading towards being in deep and you cough up the puck... you're no longer outmanning them 6-4. There are many many reasons why last night was an awful game. This is not one of them. They had to go all-out offense in the last minute to try to tie it up. A pass getting picked off and leading to an odd-man rush in that scenario is a likelihood. Look at the other 58 minutes of the game if you want to bash their ability.

I mean, with the way the play happened, you're going to have 2 to 3 of your players who are simply out of position to recover from an intercepted pass. You're going to have the 4th guy who made the errant pass or had the puck stripped and he'll probably be behind the play.

Look at the first two periods if you want to complain about this game and being undertalented. Being in a mad scramble with an empty net is no indication of anything.

At this level smart teams and I mean even some of the most dynamic teams if it wasn't there on the rush would have dumped and cornered them, out manning the puck. If it wasn't there on the face-off play would back off and then double team the puck carrier with two while the other four work in concert as puck support and pinching off the space to make the attempt at least a harder 150+ foot shot. The Wings chased around like a pee-wee team. I know that will be Blashill's fault, but as I have often said if you think Blashill, Houda or Byslma coached that approach and sorry execution of their plan I disagree. That was selfish hockey, I am going to be a star and make the play by myself hockey. Par for the course, they didn't execute for the first 50 minutes of the game, they decided to revert for the end as well.

 

[FMichael]

How do you lets a team score on you up 2 men?

Blashill...

 

[FMichael]

We're so bad we let our former headcase of a goalie beat us. What the hell? Mrazek beat us. I was hoping we'd light him like a Christmas tree.

I think last night was a pretty good indication that our netminders were/are the least of our problem...The team in front of them isn't very good, and the guy behind the bench is even worse.

 

[Hammettf2b]

I think the boys just don't like playing for Blashill. Plain and simple.

 

[Flowah]

Omg those chances by Rasmussen lol.

Also Hicketts is continuously abused because of his short reach. You can tell teams are targeting him.

He's not being targeted.

He's just really bad.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Can we talk more about just how bad Abdelkader has been on a very young team that desperately needs its veterans to step up?

9 games played, 0 goals, 1 assist, 9 shots on goal, -6 for +/-.


On the upside Bertuzzi is playing similar minutes to Abby and has 2 goals, 3 assists, actually hits people and plays with an edge, and is -2.

On a team that barely scores any goals and has won 1 game, most players will have a poor statline.

 

[jules6565]

Guys, i'll be in town 11/16 vs Phoenix. How much do you think I would pay my ticket at the arena? max $5... If anyone wants to join, feel free

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

On a team that barely scores any goals and has won 1 game, most players will have a poor statline.

Right. But a guy who's considered part of the veteran leadership and making the money Abdelkader is needs to be producing.

As Zetterberg Era pointed out, even when not scoring he used to be a factor in other ways but he's no longer "pulling the piano" or hitting or doing much of anything. It's sad when a veteran like him should be looking to a young guy like Bertuzzi as to how he should be playing.

 

[borisbadenough]

Has nothing to do with the coach. If you can not leave your own end efficiently you are doomed. They are playing a AHL level game in the d zone. Not one guy here who could play first pair anywhere. You know you are in trouble when you count to three and your defender is still holding the puck in his zone, trying to decide what to do with it. (called soft melon syndrome/brain speed issue) How many takes were there in their own zone?

Honorable mention. Horrible passing by the wingers ( with a few exceptions)

 

[Goalie guy]

Has nothing to do with the coach. If you can not leave your own end efficiently you are doomed. They are playing a AHL level game in the d zone. Not one guy here who could play first pair anywhere. You know you are in trouble when you count to three and your defender is still holding the puck in his zone, trying to decide what to do with it. (called soft melon syndrome/brain speed issue) How many takes were there in their own zone?

Honorable mention. Horrible passing by the wingers ( with a few exceptions)

Lol wait wait, so a team that has no break out is not on the coach? A team that has no neutral zone attack or plan is not the coach? A team that has no other plan then dump it behind their D and rush in and attack is not on the coach? Everything listed here 100% is on coaching! Every game it's well I think if we get the puck behind their D and spend time in the O zone they cant score. That is Trash every interview before a game.

 

[SCD]

Has nothing to do with the coach. If you can not leave your own end efficiently you are doomed. They are playing a AHL level game in the d zone. Not one guy here who could play first pair anywhere. You know you are in trouble when you count to three and your defender is still holding the puck in his zone, trying to decide what to do with it. (called soft melon syndrome/brain speed issue) How many takes were there in their own zone?

Honorable mention. Horrible passing by the wingers ( with a few exceptions)

Last night's debacle was more of forward issue, than defense. The forwards were not moving to allow space for outlet passes or nor were they crashing the offensive zone for dump ins. When the D was getting pressure from the forecheck, the wings were often floating near the far blueline and no where near positioned to relieve the pressure.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Lol wait wait, so a team that has no break out is not on the coach? A team that has no neutral zone attack or plan is not the coach? A team that has no other plan then dump it behind their D and rush in and attack is not on the coach? Everything listed here 100% is on coaching! Every game it's well I think if we get the puck behind their D and spend time in the O zone they cant score. That is Trash every interview before a game.

What more would you like him to install when they cannot execute the basics?

I will say this is a Babcock tree deal, Sportsnet spent the lunch hour ripping the unimaginative breakout the Leafs currently employ about 30 minutes in today. But they at least show capability of doing his three different breakout variations, and the call for more makes sense. We cannot do simple stuff, stringing passes together and that kind of stuff is more a player issue currently. I don't think Blashill has been great in Detroit, I think the issue is with the players more than the system. His system is run in Tampa and the slight variations he has made to them came from Babcock. So he has a system that runs based on the tenants being employed by Tampa and Toronto. I mean but we will keep talking about the system like it isn't an execution problem... Okay then.

Jeff Blashill isn't teaching or asking the guys to do what they did for a large majority of the game last night. Debate he has lost this team. But to open these threads and see people talking about his system over and over, guys like Kronwall said they didn't even play their designed system last night and that was a part of what had him clearly upset.

We can change it, but Scotty Bowman cannot fix what is a problem on this team. They are bad hockey players that execute at a poor level. That is the recipe for the basement finish we are getting. You can change the captain who is on this sinking ship, but rest assured the ship is still sinking, our talent level is the gaping hole in the side of this thing causing us to take on water.

 

[Goalie guy]

What more would you like him to install when they cannot execute the basics?

I will say this is a Babcock tree deal, Sportsnet spent the lunch hour ripping the unimaginative breakout the Leafs currently employ about 30 minutes in today. But they at least show capability of doing his three different breakout variations, and the call for more makes sense. We cannot do simple stuff, stringing passes together and that kind of stuff is more a player issue currently. I don't think Blashill has been great in Detroit, I think the issue is with the players more than the system. His system is run in Tampa and the slight variations he has made to them came from Babcock. So he has a system that runs based on the tenants being employed by Tampa and Toronto. I mean but we will keep talking about the system like it isn't an execution problem... Okay then.

Jeff Blashill isn't teaching or asking the guys to do what they did for a large majority of the game last night. Debate he has lost this team. But to open these threads and see people talking about his system over and over, guys like Kronwall said they didn't even play their designed system last night and that was a part of what had him clearly upset.

We can change it, but Scotty Bowman cannot fix what is a problem on this team. They are bad hockey players that execute at a poor level. That is the recipe for the basement finish we are getting. You can change the captain who is on this sinking ship, but rest assured the ship is still sinking, our talent level is the gaping hole in the side of this thing causing us to take on water.

What would I like him to install? What would a coach do? I'm sick of the Trash apologist! No "HIS" system is not run in Tampa, he tried and failed over and over to run that system here. What is his job? He needs to coach and if that system does not work try and try again till he finds what does. Hell pro's or not work on break outs in practice just like a Bantam team. Players don't want to play sit them! Bad players yep may be true but they know how to break out and they know how to pass. I think what we are seeing is the last ditch effort of the team just unwilling to play for the guy, for what ever reason it is we have seen for half the year last year and the start this year. Like it or not his days here are numbered sorry. No one is saying a new coach will make the team a playoff team either. The reason he is upset is he knows he is on the hot seat.

 

[The Tank]

One of my biggest problem with the team at the moment is that there is too few players that play with a lot of intensity. It looks like some of the guys are stuck in preseason mode.

Another problem is the fact, as others has pointed out, that the overall skill level of this team is way too low. That won't change this season but with great drafting and signing the right free agents it will change in the next couple of years. The intensity part is another story though. The players has to look in the mirror and ask themselves if they bring 100% every game and Blashill has to be better at getting more out of his players. But since it looks like he has lost the players that will be tough.

 

[Run the Jewels]

We can change it, but Scotty Bowman cannot fix what is a problem on this team. They are bad hockey players that execute at a poor level. That is the recipe for the basement finish we are getting. You can change the captain who is on this sinking ship, but rest assured the ship is still sinking, our talent level is the gaping hole in the side of this thing causing us to take on water.

I think this is the spot right here where we mention Holland has capped this team out and has been responsible for the drafts that have gotten us into this sorry state. I've never been much of a Blashill fan but I'm fine with giving him more time. I would absolutely stick Holland with him for the remainder of Holland's tenure. This all starts at the top and they are going to unwittingly gift us some elite talent over the next couple drafts. Then the Captain can take over and help us to once again become competitive.

 

[borisbadenough]

What more would you like him to install when they cannot execute the basics?

I will say this is a Babcock tree deal, Sportsnet spent the lunch hour ripping the unimaginative breakout the Leafs currently employ about 30 minutes in today. But they at least show capability of doing his three different breakout variations, and the call for more makes sense. We cannot do simple stuff, stringing passes together and that kind of stuff is more a player issue currently. I don't think Blashill has been great in Detroit, I think the issue is with the players more than the system. His system is run in Tampa and the slight variations he has made to them came from Babcock. So he has a system that runs based on the tenants being employed by Tampa and Toronto. I mean but we will keep talking about the system like it isn't an execution problem... Okay then.

Jeff Blashill isn't teaching or asking the guys to do what they did for a large majority of the game last night. Debate he has lost this team. But to open these threads and see people talking about his system over and over, guys like Kronwall said they didn't even play their designed system last night and that was a part of what had him clearly upset.

We can change it, but Scotty Bowman cannot fix what is a problem on this team. They are bad hockey players that execute at a poor level. That is the recipe for the basement finish we are getting. You can change the captain who is on this sinking ship, but rest assured the ship is still sinking, our talent level is the gaping hole in the side of this thing causing us to take on water.

Exactly my point.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I think this is the spot right here where we mention Holland has capped this team out and has been responsible for the drafts that have gotten us into this sorry state. I've never been much of a Blashill fan but I'm fine with giving him more time. I would absolutely stick Holland with him for the remainder of Holland's tenure. This all starts at the top and they are going to unwittingly gift us some elite talent over the next couple drafts. Then the Captain can take over and help us to once again become competitive.

Steve Yzerman has no larger influence on what shapes him as a manager than Ken Holland. Listen to him talk about it. He isn't that different a guy. He employees the guy that Jeff Blashill developed a system with and have both used coming through the ranks. My problem with the champion of Yzerman is that most of the folks doing it don't seem to understand that while doing it. I want him to come home, but that is mostly because I don't think Yzerman is worlds different than Holland and the rebuild has already commenced. He gets you in free agent rooms and he does some other things in terms of aggressiveness that I like. It makes sense to have him moving forward, I do hope Holland stays though in some form, I believe the narrative that he is going to Seattle though.

Still what happened to Holland and this team wasn't completely avoidable, the miracle was that he avoided it the first time while redoing it on the fly. I don't think any less of him today than I did a while ago. But I have a different take on coaches and management in professional sports than most where luck and timing is important. If you stay around long enough you get yourself into trouble if people demand perfection no matter what, it is one of the things Bowman talks about at length.

I am hopeful that Stevie can bring Verbeek back and some of the talent we let him leave with, that was a very large mistake by the Ilitch family in my opinion. But it is what it is. We have to endure this painful period, hopefully The Captain does come home. Because frankly I like watching the Red Wings even more when he is a part of the organization, that might be silly but it is true for this guy. However, I don't think had we handed the team to Yzerman a while ago it would be going any different. I have liked the last couple years in terms of what is being done, we just have to stay the course and not reach out for anything quick at this point. We are in it, see it through the correct way is all I ask of whatever person is in charge of this team. I also expect that of the coaches and players, there are some dark days here and hopefully the short term future before we get back to being a good team again.

 

[Frk It]

Steve Yzerman has no larger influence on what shapes him as a manager than Ken Holland. Listen to him talk about it. He isn't that different a guy. He employees the guy that Jeff Blashill developed a system with and have both used coming through the ranks. My problem with the champion of Yzerman is that most of the folks doing it don't seem to understand that while doing it. I want him to come home, but that is mostly because I don't think Yzerman is world different than Holland and the rebuild has already commenced. It makes sense to have him moving forward, I do hope Holland stays though I believe the narrative that he is going to Seattle.

Still what happened to Holland and this team wasn't completely avoidable, the miracle was that he avoided it the first time while redoing it on the fly. I don't think any less of him today than I did a while ago. But I have a different take on coaches and management in professional sports than most where luck and timing is important. If you stay around long enough you get yourself into trouble if people demand perfection no matter what, it is one of the things Bowman talks about at length.

Having a similar system does not make them equals. There’s plenty of spread offenses in college football, but some of them are shit and some are good.

There’s other things that go into coaching, like being a leader among men on a nightly basis.

Otherwise I agree with most of what you are saying.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Having a similar system does not make them equals. There’s plenty of spread offenses in college football, but some of them are **** and some are good.

There’s other things that go into coaching, like being a leader among men on a nightly basis.

Otherwise I agree with most of what you are saying.

What is being discussed though is the system at a nauseating length in GDT. That we run that crazy long flip play, that I see literally all over the league and quite prominently in Tampa when I turn on center ice. The difference is they execute it better, but when discussed we are the only ones running it. It is also brought up when something is done that no coach above pee-wee would put up with. Cooper might be better at it, but I don't think Blash is trying to run something crazy different.

He might have lost the dressing room. I haven't heard a ton of that outside of some rumors on Zetterberg having tension with him. Again, I think I said above if you want to argue he lost the team, certainly I thought they played with one of their most troubling effort games last night so maybe it is happening and I understand people going there.

However, I listen to guys like Alex Martinez say he is the biggest reason he came to the World Championships, people in USA hockey that think he has a great mind for the game and the Wings have also defended Blashill a lot. Patrick Kane and other players over there said they liked the way he used video in quick bursts to reinforce points. Pointing out it is simple especially with a mishmash group, so perhaps he isn't going in depth enough with this but it also speaks to it being fairly easy to follow so why can't we remember that stuff. I also watched him turnaround Indiana in the USHL and Western in the NCAA at lower levels, before winning in the AHL. I maintain the dude is a good coach, I just think it wasn't the correct time and honestly I feel bad that Blashill is going to have this setback on his resume. But I think he is a Deboer type, I think he will be heard of again at this level and with a more positive group he will get more out of them.

 

[Frk It]

What is being discussed though is the system at a nauseating length in GDT. That we run that crazy long flip play, that I see literally all over the league and quite prominently in Tampa when I turn on center ice. The difference is they execute it better. It is also brought up when something is done that no coach above pee-wee would put up with. Cooper might be better at it, but I don't think Blash is trying to run something crazy different.

He might have lost the dressing room. I haven't heard a ton of that outside of some rumors on Zetterberg having tension with him. Again, I think I said above if you want to argue he lost the team, certainly I thought they played with one of their most troubling effort games last night so maybe it is happening and I understand people going there.

However, I listen to guys like Alex Martinez say he is the biggest reason he came to the World Championships, people in USA hockey that think he has a great mind for the game and the Wings have also defended Blashill a lot. Patrick Kane and other players over there said they liked the way he used video in quick bursts to reinforce points. Pointing out it is simple especially with a mishmash group, so perhaps he isn't going in depth enough with this but it also speaks to it being fairly easy to follow so why can't we remember that stuff. I also watched him turnaround Indiana in the USHL and Western in the NCAA at lower levels, before winning in the AHL. I maintain the dude is a good coach, I just think it wasn't the correct time and honestly I feel bad that Blashill is going to have this setback on his resume. But I think he is a Deboer type, I think he will be heard of again at this level and with a more positive group he will get more out of them.

That’s fair, the team USA mentions are a good point, although I’m not sure on his evaluation of players (guess you could say the same for Babs...)

I’ll be interested to see how he does on his next stop. Only issue is I don’t think his time in Detroit will get him a job with a better team, unless he takes on an Assistant job and works his way up.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

That’s fair, the team USA mentions are a good point, although I’m not sure on his evaluation of players (guess you could say the same for Babs...)

I’ll be interested to see how he does on his next stop. Only issue is I don’t think his time in Detroit will get him a job with a better team, unless he takes on an Assistant job and works his way up.

I think he struggles there but it is really an industry wide issue.

I really don't understand it, I think it is something that makes modern hockey a little over coached and less enjoyable. Build lines with these ideas going and a worker F1 forechecker is plaguing this league. I don't think I have enjoyed a line more in a season since Fil - Z - Hudler which was a skill line where they just outsmarted dudes. I think the industry has gotten too ridged in terms of this thinking. I look forward to a correction at this that I think will eventually come at the coaching level. Like Sullivan's offensive transition ideas seem to have shaken the industry. Oddly Babcock could be cutting edge and let the Leafs out skill people but I doubt we see it. But I like that Lavy and Sullivan who are both offensive guys are currently popular in the coaching ranks. I think it is good for the game and I hope it is a part of why scoring is up and stays up.

Listen guys/gals when I fail to lance Blashill or Holland it isn't because I think they are perfect. I think both have had problems during their current tenures. I think Holland is a bright hockey mind though and I value his experience and his ability to identify talent be it players or management. But he hit a rough patch and he is paying for it. I like his moves since we really embraced the rebuild. I would absolutely welcome Stevie back at this point though, I understand that move right now. On Blashill, I still think he is a bright hockey mind. I think he got dealt a tough hand and he made some mistakes that young coaches make. I think he has gotten better and I really am hopeful that his next gig is a good fit. I don't think he stays, though Yzerman will probably want to talk to him this summer to the horror of the masses given how much Stevie likes Cooper. But Blashill also has to make the summer which one has to question through these opening ten, even if I expected this to be our hardest 10 game stretch I still am very discouraged by the performances and that involves the coaches as one of your option levers for change.