Speculation: Detroit Red Wings TDL

[Oddbob]

Until very recently, Jake Walman was a far inferior defenseman, defensively, than Nick Jensen. Positionally, Jensen has always been better. One of his better traits, and why he was often underappreciated in Detroit, is that he combined his superior skating with excellent gap control. Again, until recently, Walman's gap control was brutal. It was his glaring weakness last season, he allowed scoring chances that never should have been. Luckily, it appears he figured that out this season. Much Like Jensen did when he was younger.

Your assessment of Jensen is off. He's always been underrated, not overrated (couldn't care less about his +/-, I don't even know what it was last year). And I mean that in the sense that Wings fans used to try to say he wasn't an NHL-caliber defenseman lol, wheras he always very much has been, and a guy who can play up in a lineup and have success. 9 out of 10 guys who skate like him can't defend, likely because they've relied on their skating their whole lives. He does, and it's largely why he's had a long career.

I think you are vastly overrating him. He was a 7th D on our team, who only got ice time because we literally had garbage on our team, and he wasn't the worst of that bunch, so he got a bunch of ice time, and just because he wasn't an utter train wreck, a fair number on the Wings forum are calling him a top 4. Even in WSH, he only plays as much as he does, because they have a brutal blueline. Carlson and Orlov are there only good defenceman.

Go look at their blueline, outside those 2 and Jensen, it looks like us from 3 or 4 years ago. Names like Erik Gustafsson, Matt Irwin, Fehervary (could be something, but young), McIlrath, Trevor van Riemsdyk, Lucas Johansen, and Alex Alexeyev.

Find the right rental to make the extension possible.

I never think them as pure rentals, if player is UFA. If Yzerman is interested, he'll secure out the possibility of extension.

"Yzerman-interest" is a power in hockey. Just like he did trade a pick for rights to negotiate with Husso.

Same effect could be on play, if he goes after some pending UFA. There's extension on his mind.

Why would a 32 year old blueliner (33 in Sep.) be our target to extend though? We already have 2 vet blueliners in Maatta and Chiarot, and Jensen will want at least as much as Maatta.

 

[Snuggs]

But he is not competing for that same spot.

Whole idea is to get an improvement on 3rd pair RhD.

Walman - Seider
Määttä - Hronek
Chiarot - Jensen

That would look very interesting and balanced.

I don't like it, both guys like the puck, and wander out of position. I think personally they'd be a disaster together.

I agree a RHD should be added. Not sure Jensen or anyone that has to have the puck to be considered good is the guy Red Wings should be looking for. ( IMO. )

 

[SirloinUB]

Retreads that were nothing special like Jensen are what I was talking about.

To be fair, the UFA RD options are pretty limited, especially if youre looking for some safety and stability for the 3rd pair. Jensen, and schenn is kind of it for proven guys. Mayfield could be interesting, not sure if the Islanders are ready to give up though.

Fabbro would be an interesting add as an RFA but not exactly a proven entity.

As far as guys with term, Savard, TVR, Petry.

Not a lot of options out there that would actually be available and fit the mold of what this team needs.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Why do people want Nick Jensen? We had him, and he is such an average doesn't do anything really well player. Do they miss him rushing the puck up ice and dumping it in?

His skating is still top notch and even if he's not going to generate a ton offensively his speed and motor have made him a pretty good all around defender. He'd be a 3rd pair D on Detroit next year playing next to a guy like either Chiarot (who I hope his speed can compensate for) or Edvinsson as a veteran partner.

3.3 mil for Jensen for 3 seasons. That gives Detroit a really solid RD moving forward.

Walman - Seider
Maatta - Hronek
Edvinsson - Jensen

Find a way to fire Chiarot into the sun. It cost a 2nd and 4th to trade away Zaitsev. It'll probably be a similar cost to get rid of our bum LD.

 

[NickH8]

Meier is really interesting. If we're in the hunt at the deadline, do you include our 1st Ina trade for him?

Think about it, who are we picking with that 1st? Barlow? Heidt? Dvorsky? Sale? All guys that project as probably 2nd liners. Meier is a guaranteed top line wingers who is an RFA.

 

[Ezekial]

Jensen is definitely worse than Walman.

Nick Jensen hasn't been the same player in Washington you think he was in Detroit.

 

[jaster]

I think you are vastly overrating him. He was a 7th D on our team, who only got ice time because we literally had garbage on our team, and he wasn't the worst of that bunch, so he got a bunch of ice time, and just because he wasn't an utter train wreck, a fair number on the Wings forum are calling him a top 4. Even in WSH, he only plays as much as he does, because they have a brutal blueline. Carlson and Orlov are there only good defenceman.

Go look at their blueline, outside those 2 and Jensen, it looks like us from 3 or 4 years ago. Names like Erik Gustafsson, Matt Irwin, Fehervary (could be something, but young), McIlrath, Trevor van Riemsdyk, Lucas Johansen, and Alex Alexeyev.

The bold is either wrong or misleading.

I'm not vastly overrating him because I'm simply describing what he's proven to be. The only time he was a 7th defenseman was his rookie year in Detroit, when he was effectively in a rotation with Ouellet and Marchenko, with the three of them filling in for our injury-riddled regulars at that time. Second year he was a 3rd-pair staple. Third year he ascended to a mostly 2nd-pair guy, surpassing several of our aging vets on account of him developing and improving, much more than our other young dmen. And he looked good in that role, even on a crap team. So much so that he netted a 2nd-round pick from a contender to be part of their playoff run.

And sure, Washington sucks this year. But you can't just ignore the past 4 years, when the Caps were an excellent playoff team (contender for 3 of those years) and Jensen was a regular 3rd-pair guy who was the first dman they moved into the top-4 when needed. Saying that was only the case because the Caps have garbage D is disingenuous. It's certainly not Nick Jensen's fault that the Caps finally suck this year.

Jensen is your classic high-floor, low-ceiling boring but dependable defenseman. The exact kind that gets frequently underrated because they aren't flashy and most fans don't know half of what they are seeing when they watch defensemen (hell, I remember people insisting Madison Bowey was a better defenseman than Nick Jensen lol). Hockey IQ, making reads, gap control, etc., not as flashy as putting up points or mauling guys in front of the net, but qualities you want in a bottom-pair guy. And that's all we're talking about here. How can you "vastly overrate" a player by calling him a good 3rd-pair defenseman when he's been a 3rd-pair guy who has often filled in as a 2nd pair guy (including the past 2 years) his whole career, including on multiple contending teams?

Why would a 32 year old blueliner (33 in Sep.) be our target to extend though? We already have 2 vet blueliners in Maatta and Chiarot, and Jensen will want at least as much as Maatta.

Extend? Nah. I'm simply stating that, right now, he's an upgrade to our blue line, by a pretty significant gap. If we could get him cheap enough, I'd add him in a heartbeat to help towards a playoff push.

 

[jaster]

people on here are acting like Nick Jensen is the only player in the league that we could go after.

lol wut?

I saw two people mention him on page 1. Then several pages later you asked, "why does everyone want Nick Jensen?"

 

[jaster]

Nick Jensen hasn't been the same player in Washington you think he was in Detroit.

Even Jensen's final year in Detroit was better than Walman has ever been, outside of being paired with Seider this year.

 

[Reddwit]

How many other cheap, high-floor RHD are potentially available though? I mean, maybe there are others, I haven't looked. But Jensen fits the bill if Detroit wanted to upgrade their top-6 with a minor move.

"Retreads." Oof. I appreciate that we're all scarred by a number of fruitless Holland moves in bringing back players, but there is nothing inherently wrong with a "retread." The player either has value or he doesn't.


He's definitely not "definitely" worse. There's an argument, but you're clearly underrating Jensen. And while Walman has been a nice surprise, has fit great with Mo, and may have a future in Detroit, he has no track record. He's still a bit of a hope and a dream. Jensen has been a successful top-4 defenseman in the NHL for some time now.

Agreed on Walman. Too short of a track record to say what he is yet. Even Lebda had a couple great stretches here and there before he was a known commodity.

 

[Frk It]

His skating is still top notch and even if he's not going to generate a ton offensively his speed and motor have made him a pretty good all around defender. He'd be a 3rd pair D on Detroit next year playing next to a guy like either Chiarot (who I hope his speed can compensate for) or Edvinsson as a veteran partner.

3.3 mil for Jensen for 3 seasons. That gives Detroit a really solid RD moving forward.

For how long? Jensen will be 33 by the start of next seaon.

 

[Frk It]

Why do people want Nick Jensen? We had him, and he is such an average doesn't do anything really well player. Do they miss him rushing the puck up ice and dumping it in?

As a UFA on a short/cheap deal, maybe... I definitely wouldn't trade for him. But he is having his most productive season ever going into being a UFA, so I doubt he would be cheap.

 

[Oddbob]

Nick Jensen hasn't been the same player in Washington you think he was in Detroit.

When I see him play I see pretty much the same guy.

lol wut?

I saw two people mention him on page 1. Then several pages later you asked, "why does everyone want Nick Jensen?"

He has been mentioned in previous posts on our forum in the past year or two, and it is more than a few people who talk so glowingly about him.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

For how long? Jensen will be 33 by the start of next seaon.

Forever. Nick Jensen is a vampire.

 

[Snuggs]

Meier is really interesting. If we're in the hunt at the deadline, do you include our 1st Ina trade for him?

Think about it, who are we picking with that 1st? Barlow? Heidt? Dvorsky? Sale? All guys that project as probably 2nd liners. Meier is a guaranteed top line wingers who is an RFA.

I'm for it, I think it'll cost though.

Red Wings trade F Robby Fabbri, F Dominik Kubalik, LHD William Wallinder, 1st round pick and a 3rd round pick in 2024.

Sharks trade F Timo Meier.

2 middle six roster players, Top prospect, two picks including a 1st round pick. Might be a bit of an over pay but I don't think Meier is going be moved for cheap.

 

[WingsToPick4th]

word is St Louis blues offered 2 2023 1sts already for Meier, will be hard to beat that offer.

 

[jkutswings]

word is St Louis blues offered 2 2023 1sts already for Meier, will be hard to beat that offer.

I just have no idea what the goal is for St Louis. Seems like they think they can shortcut a rebuild.

Which usually spells disaster.

 

[Winger98]

word is St Louis blues offered 2 2023 1sts already for Meier, will be hard to beat that offer.

I have a hard time seeing SJ passing that up if it was actually offered.

 

[Ezekial]

When I see him play I see pretty much the same guy.

I'm sure if a Blues fan watched a Wings game they could say the same about Walman and it could also not be accurate.

Glad you're not one of our scouts.

I like Walman, but before he got paired with Mo Seider you couldn't say he was better than Nick Jensen. So I'm still not ready to say that he's "definitely" better.

 

[SirloinUB]

word is St Louis blues offered 2 2023 1sts already for Meier, will be hard to beat that offer.

Im not so sure about that.

The Blues extra 1st rounders would currently slot in as the 29th and 27th overall pick (obviously playoffs will affect the final slotting).

Using Examining the value of NHL Draft picks - Sound Of Hockey (because this was the first link I found with a table rather than graph) the 29th and 27th overall picks have a “trade value” of 318.

Detroit's 14th overall pick + 3rd round pick would have a trade value of 320. Shit, I think most of us would prefer picking at 14th rather than trading back for 29th and 27th.

Certainly their is an uncalculated value of having more kicks at the draft so I don't want to completely disregard the value of two late 1st rounders. I'm just not sure the blues offer is as "unbeatable" as everyone has been making it out to be.

Furthermore, Scott Wheeler recently released his top 50 (+ honorable mentions) drafted prospects. It had 6 red wings and 2 Blues.


Obviously these things have a layer of subjectivity to them but the point stands, the Blues offer is easy to match.

Whether Yzerman (or you) want to match that offer is of course a different question.

 

[Roy S]

Detroit could probably beat any offer for Meier if they really wanted too, with New Jersey being the one possible exception. Detroit has a top 5 prospect pool and a pretty attractive 1st round pick for this year or next year and some young talent in the NHL that were good prospects (Berggren).

 

[SirloinUB]

Nick Schmaltz has been moved to the wing this season and was never great at faceoffs. He has been near point per game the last two seasons, and is a right shot with term on his contract. I wonder if he is someone Yzerman looks at?

 

[kliq]

I don't want to add rentals, but I have no problem adding talent to the roster in general. Meier is definitely a guy I would love to get.

I have a hard time seeing SJ passing that up if it was actually offered.

Especially from a team that will be in the lottery, unless they offered the NYR and TO picks.

 

[Oddbob]

I'm sure if a Blues fan watched a Wings game they could say the same about Walman and it could also not be accurate.

Glad you're not one of our scouts.

I like Walman, but before he got paired with Mo Seider you couldn't say he was better than Nick Jensen. So I'm still not ready to say that he's "definitely" better.

I didn't say before this year. From what I have seen of both players, Walman is the more talented, game affecting talent.

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

Meier is really interesting. If we're in the hunt at the deadline, do you include our 1st Ina trade for him?

Think about it, who are we picking with that 1st? Barlow? Heidt? Dvorsky? Sale? All guys that project as probably 2nd liners. Meier is a guaranteed top line wingers who is an RFA.

No chance. We are not in the position to be trading up valuable prospects for guys like meier. Great player but it is absolutely not the right time for us yet. We still need a lot of center depth in our franchise before we do something like that.