Prospect Info: Detroit Red Wings 2021 Summer Prospect #4

[jfrank21]

Nah, never have suggested Nyquist is the floor. I think that's a decent ballpark, I just don't think it's the ceiling.

Yeah, that was me...and I stand by it! He just turned 21 years old. He's gonna light it up within the next couple of years.

 

[Pavels Dog]

His ceiling isn’t higher than Nyquist’s. I think you would call him a success if he’s at 300 points and 600 games.

What does the bar for success have to do with ceiling?

Nyquist had a higher ceiling than he reached.. he showed it briefly for us.. but lacked the drive to stay at that level or keep improving.
He was teased in Wings lockerroom because of his rich background. Not sure how much truth was in that. But maybe it says something. Comfortable life. Why work too much harder than needed?

Berggren? Lost his dad at a young age, still had the drive to keep pursuing his hockey dream by moving across the country to get to the best youth development program in the country. Faced a lot of adversity. Injuries. Never got discouraged, came back stronger than ever. That shows something about a player.

 

[RabidBadger]

I could make a case for Veleno or Johansson here, but went with Cossa. If he hits his potential he will be much more of an impact player than anyone on the list.

I really hope he doesn't leave me crying into my Two Hearted Ale thinking, "it coulda been Wallstedt."

 

[jfrank21]

What does the bar for success have to do with ceiling?

Nyquist had a higher ceiling than he reached.. he showed it briefly for us.. but lacked the drive to stay at that level or keep improving.
He was teased in Wings lockerroom because of his rich background. Not sure how much truth was in that. But maybe it says something. Comfortable life. Why work too much harder than needed?

Berggren? Lost his dad at a young age, still had the drive to keep pursuing his hockey dream by moving across the country to get to the best youth development program in the country. Faced a lot of adversity. Injuries. Never got discouraged, came back stronger than ever. That shows something about a player.

Interesting, had never heard that about Goose. Care to elaborate? Where did you hear that rumor?

 

[jaster]

What does the bar for success have to do with ceiling?

Nyquist had a higher ceiling than he reached.. he showed it briefly for us.. but lacked the drive to stay at that level or keep improving.
He was teased in Wings lockerroom because of his rich background. Not sure how much truth was in that. But maybe it says something. Comfortable life. Why work too much harder than needed?

Berggren? Lost his dad at a young age, still had the drive to keep pursuing his hockey dream by moving across the country to get to the best youth development program in the country. Faced a lot of adversity. Injuries. Never got discouraged, came back stronger than ever. That shows something about a player.

Jesus Christ please stop.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Interesting, had never heard that about Goose. Care to elaborate? Where did you hear that rumor?

Swedish reporter Per Bjurman covers NHL and especially always has good inside stuff from the swedes. So back in the day he was covering Detroit a lot and always referred to Goose as "Hästpolo" (horse polo).
After a while he clarified that it was the nickname given to Gus by Red Wings swedes because of his rich background playing horse polo every day lol.

 

[Bench]

I really hope he doesn't leave me crying into my Two Hearted Ale thinking, "it coulda been Wallstedt."

I'm spooked about that, not going to lie. It creeps into your mind when your top choice wasn't the one drafted. But I keep reminding myself that Cossa undeniably has all the tools you want in an elite goalie. So we'll just need to let it play out.

And Cossa doesn't even need to be the best goalie of the draft to be a success. If they are both 10 ten goalies in the league, we'll be thrilled having either one no matter how it's ranked, for example.

But way too early for that kind of talk. Lots of professional scouts preferred Cossa to Wallstedt so I'm just sticking that in my pipe to smoke until we get to see them both play meaningful pro hockey.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Jesus Christ please stop.

Ah, so we are doing what, The Dark Knight Rises plot? Nyquist merely adopted hockey as a way to keep busy, but Berggren was forced into hockey to honor his father's legacy? He was born into it, molded by it?

 

[HisNoodliness]

I'm surprised that Cossa is already here. Berggren is producing so well in a professional league and is such a solid bet to make it with a very good chance at being a difference-maker in the NHL. Tons of skill, already well developed, sky high ceiling.

Cossa also has a huge ceiling and as a goalie his impact could be pretty massive. We've seen a lot of highly touted goalies flame out though and nothing about Cossa screams "sure thing" to me. Personally I have Berggren, Johansson and Veleno before him. They're all much safer projections and unless Cossa is a top 5 goalie in the NHL someday, they'll probably have a very similar impact to him. I'm not confident projecting Cossa to be anything more than an average NHL starter which I just don't value as much as a top 6 W (Berggren), second pairing D (Johansson), or middle 6 C (Veleno).

 

[Hen Kolland]

I'm surprised that Cossa is already here. Berggren is producing so well in a professional league and is such a solid bet to make it with a very good chance at being a difference-maker in the NHL. Tons of skill, already well developed, sky high ceiling.

Cossa also has a huge ceiling and as a goalie his impact could be pretty massive. We've seen a lot of highly touted goalies flame out though and nothing about Cossa screams "sure thing" to me. Personally I have Berggren, Johansson and Veleno before him. They're all much safer projections and unless Cossa is a top 5 goalie in the NHL someday, they'll probably have a very similar impact to him. I'm not confident projecting Cossa to be anything more than an average NHL starter which I just don't value as much as a top 6 W (Berggren), second pairing D (Johansson), or middle 6 C (Veleno).

An average starting goaltender is more valuable than any middle of the lineup skater.

 

[wingerdinger]

I'm a massive fan of berggren and Johansson.
But Cossa's ceiling as a big athletic tender is simply tantalizing, so he's my pick.

 

[Frk It]

Ah, so we are doing what, The Dark Knight Rises plot? Nyquist merely adopted hockey as a way to keep busy, but Berggren was forced into hockey to honor his father's legacy? He was born into it, molded by it?

Batman, Bane, horse polos, and underdogs.

This thread is an in entertaining one.

I think you could make a good case for Cossa, Berggren, or Veleno if you wanted.

 

[HisNoodliness]

An average starting goaltender is more valuable than any middle of the lineup skater.

I don't feel that way. I think Ned will be an average starting goalie and we got him for a third round pick and signed him for 3 mil. We signed Bernier for 3 mil and he was an average starter for us. Did you see what second pairing defenseman got on the market this year? There are more decent NHL goalies than there are jobs. There are more jobs than there are middle of the lineup skaters. Give me the player that costs more to replace. The only way Cossa is really valuable is if he can be a top 5, elite goaltender. As much as he has the tools to maybe be that, I'm not comfortable projecting it.

 

[r0bert8841]

I'm surprised that Cossa is already here. Berggren is producing so well in a professional league and is such a solid bet to make it with a very good chance at being a difference-maker in the NHL. Tons of skill, already well developed, sky high ceiling.

Cossa also has a huge ceiling and as a goalie his impact could be pretty massive. We've seen a lot of highly touted goalies flame out though and nothing about Cossa screams "sure thing" to me. Personally I have Berggren, Johansson and Veleno before him. They're all much safer projections and unless Cossa is a top 5 goalie in the NHL someday, they'll probably have a very similar impact to him. I'm not confident projecting Cossa to be anything more than an average NHL starter which I just don't value as much as a top 6 W (Berggren), second pairing D (Johansson), or middle 6 C (Veleno).

This is where the disagreement happens. I don't think many of us disagree about Cossa. There is a solid divide in the fanbase between how close Berggren is to the NHL and what his ceiling is. I think many people here have their hopes a little too high about where he is in his development. Everytime I watched him play I was dumbfounded, because his numbers look really good but he was very unimpressive out there.

 

[Bench]

There are more decent NHL goalies than there are jobs.

But that's not actually true. There's only really 15 reliable NHL starters that can play 50+ games. And usually less than 10 guys that give you 60 starts.

You listed a bunch of guys who have been given tandem contracts and played in a tandem. So yeah, the price comes down when you're paying two guys $3-4 million to play 40 games each.

You called Bernier an "average starter" but he just joined a team that is banking on Blackwood being their guy. Bernier is there to split games not be the starter and his salary reflects that anticipated workload.

 

[SirloinUB]

Im stunned that Berggren is getting 50 more votes than Veleno

 

[Bench]

An average starting goaltender is more valuable than any middle of the lineup skater.

There's a fallacy that there are 32 NHL starting goalies because there are 32 teams. Just like there's not 32 starting quality QBs in the NFL to fill every team.

Or I guess Hronek is now a #1 defender because he did that last year and put up average stats.

 

[r0bert8841]

Im stunned that Berggren is getting 50 more votes than Veleno

I agree, to me Veleno and Berggren are neck and neck. One is closer to reaching their potential, Veleno, and the other has a higher ceiling but is further away from reaching it, Berggren.

 

[jaster]

Im stunned that Berggren is getting 50 more votes than Veleno

 

[Pavels Dog]

Ah, so we are doing what, The Dark Knight Rises plot? Nyquist merely adopted hockey as a way to keep busy, but Berggren was forced into hockey to honor his father's legacy? He was born into it, molded by it?

Accurate. Nyquist was pursuing a degree and hockey was more secondary for him. Berggren's been pursuing hockey in a much more serious way since 15.

 

[Frk It]

Accurate. Nyquist was pursuing a degree and hockey was more secondary for him. Berggren's been pursuing hockey in a much more serious way since 15.

Man, you should have been enlightening us with all these significant character flaws with Gustav Nyquist years ago.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Accurate. Nyquist was pursuing a degree and hockey was more secondary for him. Berggren's been pursuing hockey in a much more serious way since 15.

Gus Nyquist, the Zach Zenner of the NHL. Wannabe doctor by day, NHL hockey player out of boredom by night.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Man, you should have been enlightening us with all these significant character flaws with Gustav Nyquist years ago.

Yeah everyone who doesn't have the same drive and passion for hockey as Seider, Cossa and Berggren suffer from "character flaws"/s

"- School is important for me. I didn't think I would go this far in hockey and then it's good to have an education to fall back on. "
Gustav Nyquist: "Att vara ung i NHL är tufft" | Sport KVP | Kvällsposten

"- I wasn't drafted the first year I was eligible, but the year after. It was far from sure that I would be able to live on hockey and I had no thoughts about it then."
"Jag hade inga tankar på att leva på hockey"

 

[jaster]

I like that anyone here thinks they have their finger on the pulse of how much drive and passion individual professional hockey players have for the game of hockey.

If you think college players in D1 programs, especially ones with NHL trajectories, put hockey "second," I've got some news for ya. They do not. I'm not even sure Nyquist ever got his econ degree. He left a year early and, unlike guys like Abdelkader, I don't remember hearing he went back to finish it or graduated.

 

[DoMakc]

Yeah everyone who doesn't have the same drive and passion for hockey as Seider, Cossa and Berggren suffer from "character flaws"/s

"- School is important for me. I didn't think I would go this far in hockey and then it's good to have an education to fall back on. "
Gustav Nyquist: "Att vara ung i NHL är tufft" | Sport KVP | Kvällsposten

"- I wasn't drafted the first year I was eligible, but the year after. It was far from sure that I would be able to live on hockey and I had no thoughts about it then."
"Jag hade inga tankar på att leva på hockey"

But he is a rich kid, why should he care about education?

Sorry but I rather read Top 50 rankings from Wheeler 50 times than this kind of nonsense.