Proposal: Det-Cgy
- Thread starter drw02
- Start date
Anglesmith
Setting up the play?
I'm talking on principle. It was a fourth, too. A third gets a little more palatable, to be sure.
TheHudlinator
Registered User
We don't need Jackman or Tootoo. But we could use a 3rd, so I would be Ok with that. Better yet, sign Brunner and trade him back to the Wings for a 1st at the deadline!
Johnny Hoxville
The Return of a Legend
I'd definitely do it for a 2nd, I'd be tempted for a 3rd. A 4th in next years draft will likely end being a player on the Heat.
Lets compromise and settle on a 3rd
TheHudlinator
Registered User
HighLifeMan
#SnowyStrong
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Volica
Papa Shango
- May 15, 2012
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Or a TJ Brodie
Shh, the lot of you.
We all know that only players selected in the first round, and in the top 5 in each draft year can make a difference! Duh.
But seriously. If I'm Calgary, I've shown some competency in drafting the past few years... I hold onto each pick like they were the cure for ugly.
TheHudlinator
Registered User
Yea i want to try and get as many picks as we can and continue the drafting strategy we have had these last few years
Well JG is still a huge question mark for the NHL. There's a reason he was taken as late as he was.
TheHudlinator
Registered User
Johnny Hoxville
The Return of a Legend
TheHudlinator
Registered User
Johnny Hoxville
The Return of a Legend
To get his contract completely off the books. There's maybe 3 teams right now who may consider taking him on with no salary coming back, he's not exactly high in demand. While burying him is an option, I'm sure that's lower on their list of options they would prefer to do. Again, easy for fans to say to bury him when it's not their money.
Our owners don't retain money on contracts either because they care about a dollar. People always propose to trade Cammy at half his salary, and that would never go down with our ownership.
scoringmachine
Registered User
- Jan 17, 2007
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I know what the deal was about Detroit getting Tim Jackman but the fact is Tootoo would basically be taking McGratton job as a goon more than the roll of Jackman as of now we do not know what we are going to with Jackman. Jackaman does not look like he will get much NHL time if he stays on the Flames. The only plus with Tootoo is that he also has offense. In the end we have to decide is it worth taking on 4 million or just keep Jackman at a lower price.
Johnny Hoxville
The Return of a Legend
TBH, I'd feel bad for Mcgratton if we did this deal, that's a large part of why I'd pass on the OP as is. He's a guy who's worked his butt off for us, he's turned around his life, and the guys in the locker room love him. He plays his role just fine. Yes Tootoo is an upgrade over him, but unless we're getting something we can't say no to, I don't know that I'd do this for that reason. McGratton has been more than adequate in his role, I don't know if that sends a good message to the team.
Unless Bouma isn't quite the same, and we shift Tootoo to LW?
Or maybe we play Bouma at C and roll with Tootoo - Bouma - McGratton. That would be a nightmare for teams to play against.
Unless Bouma isn't quite the same, and we shift Tootoo to LW?
Or maybe we play Bouma at C and roll with Tootoo - Bouma - McGratton. That would be a nightmare for teams to play against.
InfinityIggy
Zagidulin's Dad
After seeing McGratt do his thing and then salute the crowd, its easy to like him bringing energy to the 4th line.
Its been pretty clear he was a steal. In a redraft he would be going in the 1st round for sure.
If he gains 2 more inches and 15 more lbs, sure, he could be the best player in that draff.
For Kotalik it was about the salary. You can call it a cap dump but there's no other way of looking at it but simply salary as it was possible to bury anyone you wanted to with no cap penalty. So the Flames traded Kotalik with negative value (how much can be argued) to save ~$3,000,000 of actual salary. Similarly, Primeau was traded along with a 2nd round pick to save the Flames some cash. Primeau's salary was 1.4M, but he was a capable 13th forward and the Flames needed to replace him with someone so the actual salary saved was less than 1.4M, this was at the expense of a 2nd round pick and whatever they could get back for Stralman.
Tootoo is a legitimate 4th line player, and really not terrible as a injury replacement third liner but he still has 4M on his contract. While not a perfect translation, as Tootoo would be above the depth chart of several of the Flames other 4th line/fringe players, if we look at him as replacing Jackman and another league minimum player next year the salary difference is ~2.5M, roughly double the difference between Primeau when they gave up a 2nd. Cap really shouldn't enter the equation too much, in years past you could easily get rid of it and this year the Flames have a ton of it. The biggest difference is that Detroit can't hide all of Tootoo's cap, that's a bonus for a team like the Flames.
The owners, managements and the fans?
While the Flames have far from a static budget this year, that extra cash comes from somewhere. That's just how a business works.
The salary cap floor is 44M, the team has to spend at least 44M by the end of the season in cap, that's true. The Flames current roster, depending on the exact roster to make it out of training camp is roughly 53M. The trade deadline is ~80% through the season, by that point the Flames would have spent over 42M, they could trade all those players you listed without taking back any salary (which is impossible as even league minimum players need to replace them) and still end up over the cap. Unless Cammalleri is traded very early on in the season there's not a concern about reaching the floor. And if he is traded early, there's multiple ways of getting value to reach the floor now (retain some salary, take on a salary dump) that's a non-issue to worry about.
So, what extra value does Tootoo have over Jackman? Better player easily, doesn't help the Flames much, wont help their development and wont be the difference between playoffs. He's not putting fans in the seats. There's a chance that after paying him 3.5M he would be tradeable at the deadline in 2015, but probably should be looked at as negligible. So it works out to be roughly 2.5M for a 4th round pick, if Feaster can convince the owners to shell out an extra 2.5M I would much much rather have him do it for something than a 4th round pick. With 2.5M, that's another European scout for awhile.
And Tampa-Toronto already set the bar for a 4th round pick in the Kolzig trade. Toronto took on ~$500,000 for a 4th round pick 4 years ago. Even if there's some inflation because of the cap and profit changes, a 4th round pick isn't nearly enough to take on Tootoo unless they think he has much extra value over Jackman. Now other teams might be willing to take on Tootoo if he adds something they need, but for the Flames I would say they are looking for at least a 3rd.
