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[Nac Mac Feegle]

I really don't see Ceci getting over 4 mil a year from anyone. He's a good 4D, but not the type people will break the bank for.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I know this is overly simplistic, but if by some sheer miracle of odds the Sens manage to land Dahlin along with signing EK, Stone and Duchene, a lot of this stuff all goes away.

D looks wayyy better, core is set, fanbase should be jacked up. I mean I know its too much to hope for, but I know I'll be buying season tickets if we get that straightened up, with or without Dahlin. But with him... to the moon!

I just wanted to say that it's not really a miracle though. While we always tend to look at it as better odds to pick later, it's not that simple given that EVERY TEAM has higher odds to pick later, infect better odds than us save for Buffalo.

We actually have the second best chance at picking first overall.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

I really don't see Ceci getting over 4 mil a year from anyone. He's a good 4D, but not the type people will break the bank for.

Radko Gudas got 3.3M. Ceci will easily get 4M on any deal with term.

 

[JD1]

ottawa does need top 4 defenceman, ceci is a fringe #4 at best. The thing is you still trade him depending on what he wants for an extension. Anything north of 4.75-5 per year and you trade him asap. Just because we need top 4 defenceman doesnt mean we should lock ourselves into another bad contract

I looked up Ceci's ice ime stats. 2 sites. one had him at 30th in the league. the other had him 31st. his deployment is less than ideal for putting up a huge stat line. A fringe #4 you'd figure with 124 top 4 D in the league would be where? Down around the 100 mark? If he was down around that level of ice time and better deployment how would he look?

If this team needs to find money and presuming Ryan cannot be moved the answer imo is moving Hoffman. Hoffman finished 91st in the league in goals and that is what he is GOOD at. He isn't much good at any other aspect of the game. He finished 91st in goal scoring getting 1st PP minutes on a PP that was designed to run thru him as the shooter. The goals are beautiful when he gets them he just doesn't get them enough.

Looking at what we have in the pipeline replacing Hoffman's productivity is a lot easier than replacing Ceci's minutes

 

[Shruggs Peterson]

Karlsson's TSN 1200 Interview, consider it paraphrased so listen to the thing yourself via: https://www.tsn.ca/radio/ottawa-1200/karlsson-this-has-been-the-toughest-year-of-my-career-1.1051370

(Roughly 9 minutes in)

You said you'll get what you're worth on the market?

Yeah, I do think that you know that comment go taken out of context, I do believe that whoever it is, whether it is me or not, that is the way it is, that is the business side of things. I do think that guys these days are more concerned about it than they were in the past, and then again, that's one of those things I am least worried about, is you know what money it is going to be when or where, you know I am gonna get what I am gonna get, whether that is here or somewhere else, it's not something at all that you know you guys talk about numbers, it's not something I have considered, I want an 8 year or a 7 year deal.

A player can get as much as 20 percent of the salary cap which would be 16.6 under an 83 million dollar cap, do you think this market could sustain that?

Tough to say, you know it's during the era we're in with the salary cap, and to have a competitive team you have to do certain things a certain way to get as many players under the cap as possible, at the end of the day that's the management's job, I know they'll do a good job of figuring that out. Where ever I'll end up in that category is not something I worry about, I will worry about playing hockey for a very long time and being very successful, numbers are not anything I am concerned about because I know when that time comes that'll be the least of the problems.

Don't like the nature of the second question because it seems quite loaded, (although EK gives an appropriate response) but the answer to the first question is encouraging. Agreed that response is not him backtracking on the what he's worth, it's more him being quite confident that he'll get (or very close to) the number that he's set in his head where ever he ends up. It's encouraging that it sounds like term is his first priority when/if he sits down with management in July. Term shouldn't be an issue at all when talking contract negotiations.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

So Ceci is not good enough to play for the Senators ......... but trading him can be huge for us?

Yes..... to have him stop playing massive minutes for us.

I’ve AlWAYS said his value was much higher than his actual ability.

But my point is he’s bad in his role but Boucher will never take him out of it. So simply by taking him away from Boucher our defense may be improved, based of course on what we may get back.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I looked up Ceci's ice ime stats. 2 sites. one had him at 30th in the league. the other had him 31st. his deployment is less than ideal for putting up a huge stat line. A fringe #4 you'd figure with 124 top 4 D in the league would be where? Down around the 100 mark? If he was down around that level of ice time and better deployment how would he look?

If this team needs to find money and presuming Ryan cannot be moved the answer imo is moving Hoffman. Hoffman finished 91st in the league in goals and that is what he is GOOD at. He isn't much good at any other aspect of the game. He finished 91st in goal scoring getting 1st PP minutes on a PP that was designed to run thru him as the shooter. The goals are beautiful when he gets them he just doesn't get them enough.

Looking at what we have in the pipeline replacing Hoffman's productivity is a lot easier than replacing Ceci's minutes

Cecis dead last in shots against/60 of all d men (or players?) Dead last. Maybe we need to accept that replacing Cecis minutes with equal or slightly better efficiency will simply not be that hard.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Cecis dead last in shots against/60 of all d men (or players?) Dead last. Maybe we need to accept that replacing Cecis minutes with equal or slightly better efficiency will simply not be that hard.

Yeah, that logic is hilarious. It'll be easier to replace our most productive goal scorer over the past 3 years than the guy who's getting dominated worse than any other defender in the entire NHL. Like we can literally put anyone there and have similar results to Ceci.

I feel for Ceci because he's horribly miscast in his role and think he'd be a solid player in a reduced role, but he's not some top pairing calibre player and all the metrics show us that. Hoffman on the other hand can play on the third line with Pageau and still be one of our most productive players. Totally bonkers.

 

[The Lewler]

Was Simmer basically saying on the radio today that he doesn't think Karlsson is going to extend this summer regardless, because he doesn't want to fall into a PK Subban trap and get his salary dollars locked in at a fixed known number and get traded before the NMC kicks in?

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Was Simmer basically saying on the radio today that he doesn't think Karlsson is going to extend this summer regardless, because he doesn't want to fall into a PK Subban trap and get his salary dollars locked in at a fixed known number and get traded before the NMC kicks in?

If he said that, he is misinformed about how contracts work.

PK Subban was traded during his RFA years. The reason PK's NMC had yet to kick in is because it would have been illegal under the CBA for Subban to have any trade protection at all during RFA years.

Karlsson currently has a limited NTC and is allowed trade protection because he is no longer playing out RFA years. If he were to extend, he simply could have any trade protection retroactively upgraded in his current contract. For example, if his new contract contained a full NMC (which he has the bargaining power to get), upon signing his new contract, his previous modified NTC in the final year of his current contract could then be retroactively upgraded to a full NMC.

A popular case where this happened was with Carey Price. It was actually the first time I heard about this type of thing being possible. I wouldn't be surprised if this happens with every major extension that features a NMC on a player who is legally allowed trade protection, but we rarely hear about it since it is almost always irrelevant. The only reason we heard about it in Price's case was because MTL was a shit show right after signing him and people were questioning whether they'd consider trading Price before his extension kicked in.

 

[JD1]

Yeah, that logic is hilarious. It'll be easier to replace our most productive goal scorer over the past 3 years than the guy who's getting dominated worse than any other defender in the entire NHL. Like we can literally put anyone there and have similar results to Ceci.

I feel for Ceci because he's horribly miscast in his role and think he'd be a solid player in a reduced role, but he's not some top pairing calibre player and all the metrics show us that. Hoffman on the other hand can play on the third line with Pageau and still be one of our most productive players. Totally bonkers.

Ceci can be re-cast. A couple less minutes, slight deployment change. Do that and he's still a top 4.

I'm not sure how we recast Hoffman for him to be more productive. The entire PP focused around him. He played a ton of top 6 minutes and always on the 1st PP. How many players can be put in that situation and pot 22? As I said, he finished 91 in goal scoring and that's what he is good at.

 

[BondraTime]

Ceci can be re-cast. A couple less minutes, slight deployment change. Do that and he's still a top 4.

I'm not sure how we recast Hoffman for him to be more productive. The entire PP focused around him. He played a ton of top 6 minutes and always on the 1st PP. How many players can be put in that situation and pot 22? As I said, he finished 91 in goal scoring and that's what he is good at.

In that same light though, Hoffman is 24th in goals scored over the past 4 seasons in the NHL, and 44th in total points.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Ceci can be re-cast. A couple less minutes, slight deployment change. Do that and he's still a top 4.

I'm not sure how we recast Hoffman for him to be more productive. The entire PP focused around him. He played a ton of top 6 minutes and always on the 1st PP. How many players can be put in that situation and pot 22? As I said, he finished 91 in goal scoring and that's what he is good at.

I know! I know! I know! Play him with Matt Duchene instead of JG Pageau. What were his numbers like with Duchene vs Pageau? I bet that would tell us something.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Hoffman is infuriating. When he's producing he looks unstoppable, when he isn't it's a nightmare on skates.

If he was Russian he'd be very unpopular

Still, the chemistry he displayed with Duchene was very encouraging. A nice option to have.

 

[Deku]

Complaining about Hoffman's production relative to his icetime and powerplay time is really dumb, especially considering how god awful our powerplay was. Sure he's the trigger-man but that doesn't mean he can just automatically score 40 goals when the setup is garbage.

Let's not forget that he was our HIGHEST SCORING FORWARD last season while playing with Pageau and Pyatt.

 

[JD1]

In that same light though, Hoffman is 24th in goals scored over the past 4 seasons in the NHL, and 44th in total points.

yep. Turning 29 in November. Down season or start of trend? a bit of both?

 

[JD1]

I know! I know! I know! Play him with Matt Duchene instead of JG Pageau. What were his numbers like with Duchene vs Pageau? I bet that would tell us something.

you look those numbers up and post them I'll wait.

 

[JD1]

Complaining about Hoffman's production relative to his icetime and powerplay time is really dumb, especially considering how god awful our powerplay was. Sure he's the trigger-man but that doesn't mean he can just automatically score 40 goals when the setup is garbage.

Let's not forget that he was our HIGHEST SCORING FORWARD last season while playing with Pageau and Pyatt.

complaining about productivity relative to role and ice ime is dumb? I gotta think about that.

we see players put in more positive situations to score and their numbers take off. The point with Hoffman is we can't do that. Can you give him more ice time? more pp minutes? a more productive role on the pp? easier deployment? no. you can' really make changes to his icetime that would positively impact his productivity.

I don't buy the Pageau line. First off there's the PP time and utilization Hoffman gets. Secondly Pageau is talked about all the time on the boards here as being able to play in an offensive role.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

yep. Turning 29 in November. Down season or start of trend? a bit of both?

you really think age played a part in Hoffmans "down" season this year... really? truly?

how many posts did the guy hit as well?

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Hoffman is infuriating. When he's producing he looks unstoppable, when he isn't it's a nightmare on skates.

If he was Russian he'd be very unpopular

Still, the chemistry he displayed with Duchene was very encouraging. A nice option to have.

Exactly.

Hofman is like Jekyll & Hyde. He's at the point in his career where he absolutely need more Jekyll and less Hyde in his game. He's not a kid anymore. He needs to show a complete game, especially with that big contract he has now.

 

[Engineer]

Exactly.

Hofman is like Jekyll & Hyde. He's at the point in his career where he absolutely need more Jekyll and less Hyde in his game. He's not a kid anymore. He needs to show a complete game, especially with that big contract he has now.

Hoffman has one of the friendliest contracts in the league.

 

[BondraTime]

yep. Turning 29 in November. Down season or start of trend? a bit of both?

I'd think it was a down year, personally. He still had ~ the same amount of points in a year where we sucked at scoring, and still showed exactly what gets him goals.

I think he's good for ~25 goals and 60 points a year for the duration of his contract. Having him on Duchene's line will help tremendously.

Our PP was catastrophically bad, that's not just on Hoffman. That's on the delivery.

I'd definitely move Ceci before Hoffman all things being equal, unfortunately we don't have the resources to plug someone in Ceci's place, as he shouldn't be there either. I'm not sure why we did this to Ceci under Boucher, he looked like a very promising offensive guy prior to being thrust into the shithouse that is our Shutdown guy.

And I do believe that playing on the top line with Duchene and Dzingel/Ryan/Stone would help his production compared to Pageau and Pyatt.

 

[Micklebot]

Ceci can be re-cast. A couple less minutes, slight deployment change. Do that and he's still a top 4.

I think this is the best option for Ceci. Just because he's struggling in his current role doesn't mean there isn't a role for him. My fear is that by putting him in such a high profile role, he's priced himself out of a reasonable contract for the roles he's better suited for.

I'm not sure how we recast Hoffman for him to be more productive. The entire PP focused around him. He played a ton of top 6 minutes and always on the 1st PP. How many players can be put in that situation and pot 22? As I said, he finished 91 in goal scoring and that's what he is good at.

Well, he did spend about a quarter of his ES icetime playing on what was essentially our shutdown line with Pageau, not too many goal scorers do that. At ES, he scored at a much higher rate with Duchene than he did with Pageau. Duchene and Hoffman registered a point on 16 ES goals in about 634 mins together while Pageau and Hoffman both registered a point on 5 ES goals in around 293 mins together. The team scored 2.79 GF/60 at 5v5 when Duchene and Hoffman were on the ice, and only 1.74 GF/60 when Pageau and Hoffman were on the ice together. For whatever reason, the Pageau and Hoffman combo was actually really good last year, but this year it really was an anchor for Hoffman's utility. There's certainly more to get out of Hoffman imo.

 

[Deku]

complaining about productivity relative to role and ice ime is dumb? I gotta think about that.

we see players put in more positive situations to score and their numbers take off. The point with Hoffman is we can't do that. Can you give him more ice time? more pp minutes? a more productive role on the pp? easier deployment? no. you can' really make changes to his icetime that would positively impact his productivity.

I don't buy the Pageau line. First off there's the PP time and utilization Hoffman gets. Secondly Pageau is talked about all the time on the boards here as being able to play in an offensive role.

If we were actually a good team and he wasn't producing, then you could complain about productivity. But the team was a tire fire this year, and just last year he was our leading scorer on a GOOD team.
The point is that I wouldn't judge him so harshly on a down year in which the entire team as a collective played like shit.

And yeah Pageau can play in an offensive role, but Hoffman had almost double his point totals last season. Powerplay helps but it's not like he had 30+ powerplay points.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Yes..... to have him stop playing massive minutes for us.

I’ve AlWAYS said his value was much higher than his actual ability.

But my point is he’s bad in his role but Boucher will never take him out of it. So simply by taking him away from Boucher our defense may be improved, based of course on what we may get back.

So you're basically saying that Boucher had a better option (ability), than playing Ceci the second most TOI, among D men, for his first two seasons as coach.

Who would than have been?