Defense Prospects - where are all the yutes?

[elitepete]

Hughes - #1D
Rathbone - #4D
Woo - #4D
Persson - #5D
Juolevi - #6/7D

Rest of our D prospects will not be NHLers.

This is my prediction of what they will amount to.

 

[elitepete]

Our D prospects have been shit for as long as I can remember. That’s one area we never improved in. We can’t scout Dmen for shit.


Joni Jurmo. 20 GP in Liiga. -11 with 0 points
Toni Utunen 51 GP in Liiga -6 with 6 points.
Cole Candela plays in the ECHL now.
matt brassard plays in the ECHL now
Gill Breezbah is ass.


Forsling was good but we traded him for nothing.

We were average at scouting dmen before Benning.

 

[Hit the post]

We were average at scouting dmen before Benning.

Gustav Forling is looking pretty solid at this point. Home run draft selection by Ron Delorme, ace amateur scout.

Now, what happened to that guy???

 

[iceburg]

Went back and looked at the D-men drafted in the 3rd round or later from the Woo draft back to the Edler draft (not including Edler). The hit rate (more than 100 game sin NHL) was actually pretty good. about 15%. Traded most of them away or let them go. The big issue is that these players are/were "serviceab;e NHLers and none of them were gems.
So, important to pick up a Bieksa or an Edler in later rounds once in awhile.

 

[M2Beezy]

Our D prospects have been shit for as long as I can remember. That’s one area we never improved in. We can’t scout Dmen for shit.


Joni Jurmo. 20 GP in Liiga. -11 with 0 points
Toni Utunen 51 GP in Liiga -6 with 6 points.
Cole Candela plays in the ECHL now.
matt brassard plays in the ECHL now
Gill Breezbah is ass.


Forsling was good but we traded him for nothing.

Juolevi is pretty good, afterall he is a #5 overall pick. Dmen take longer Johnny, just give him another 3-4 years in the A to get his game on track

 

[wetcoast]

The Canucks need to spend more premium picks on defenseman. That's the easiest way to acquire good NHL Dmen. Yes you are more likely to be able to find top 4 Dmen later on in the draft than top 6 forwards but you got to actually have the ability to draft NHL Dmen in later rounds every few years. Yes you can acquire a Dman through trade but we haven't been able to pull that off since the Ehrhoff trade. Before that you're looking at Jovo and Salo.

Of the prospect group OP listed, I think Rathbone is a sure-fire NHL defenseman. After him, I like Woo and Persson. Jurmo and Truscott are longer shots to me.

They sure could have used their second this year to pick a Dman, some decent prospects went after the reach.

 

[VanJack]

Hughes - #1D
Rathbone - #4D
Woo - #4D
Persson - #5D
Juolevi - #6/7D

Rest of our D prospects will not be NHLers.

This is my prediction of what they will amount to.

I have some hope for Truscott.....starting his second season at powerhouse Michigan program.....he seems to be trending nicely despite all the disruptions last season.

He'll probably never be much of a point producer, but projects as a Chris Tanev type. Predict he gets contract and after a year or two in the AHL, who knows?

 

[Get North]

The number one priority is drafting good prospects regardless of position, then you can make trades later on like Schneider for Horvat. Maybe Benning should move Dipietro or McDonaugh/Gadjovich for help on defence.

Regardless, look at the NHL line-up. The right-side is physically dominant and sturdy defensively. If they aren't playing like rugged defencemen and dominating puck battles on the boards, then Green should be fired. It's a good thing Benning added OEL because I would be frightened if a LD got hurt next season without OEL.

 

[Hit the post]

Hughes - #1D
Rathbone - #4D
Woo - #4D
Persson - #5D
Juolevi - #6/7D

Rest of our D prospects will not be NHLers.

This is my prediction of what they will amount to.

Will have to learn how to play at least *SOME* kind of defense (hasn't shown any ability of that yet & I'm not sure the current environment is going to let him develop that - ie., who on the blueline is even above average defensively to help the kid 'learn the ropes'?). #2D? Sure, no question (just can't carry a 1st pairing). Only time I want him playing 25+ minutes is with like 5+ minutes of power play duty in that total.

 

[bossram]

The number one priority is drafting good prospects regardless of position, then you can make trades later on like Schneider for Horvat. Maybe Benning should move Dipietro or McDonaugh/Gadjovich for help on defence.

Regardless, look at the NHL line-up. The right-side is physically dominant and sturdy defensively. If they aren't playing like rugged defencemen and dominating puck battles on the boards, then Green should be fired. It's a good thing Benning added OEL because I would be frightened if a LD got hurt next season without OEL.

Umm...not sure which defensemen you're looking at

 

[Get North]

Umm...not sure which defensemen you're looking at

Every RHD is significantly larger than the league average. Sure they can't play at a fast pace offensively, but their size does give them advantages defensively. The most important part is their partners and we have smaller creative LHD that want the puck on their stick. I will be interested to see who is losing their 1 on 1 battles next season.

 

[Pip]

Every RHD is significantly larger than the league average. Sure they can't play

Should have stopped here

 

[Nucker101]

Defensive prospect pool is full of waste yutes

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Every RHD is significantly larger than the league average. Sure they can't play at a fast pace offensively, but their size does give them advantages defensively. The most important part is their partners and we have smaller creative LHD that want the puck on their stick. I will be interested to see who is losing their 1 on 1 battles next season.

...he says as though we haven't been watching Myers for years.

 

[Get North]

...he says as though we haven't been watching Myers for years.

Myers was 1st in takeaways and 2nd in hits in the 2019-20 regular season. Nate Schmidt had 15 hits last season for reference which was less than Olli Juolevi! Nate was also 1st in giveaways in 2020-21.

Listen, Myers is better than both Edler and Tanev because he brings more offence than Edler and physicality than Tanev. He's a pretty good player and around $4M he's a discount deal. I prefer him to Ceci or Tanev.

You think our season is better if we switched Myers with Tanev? It wouldn't have made a difference.

 

[rypper]

You think our season is better if we switched Myers with Tanev? It wouldn't have made a difference.

Yes, definitely.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Myers was 1st in takeaways and 2nd in hits in the 2019-20 regular season. Nate Schmidt had 15 hits last season for reference which was less than Olli Juolevi! Nate was also 1st in giveaways in 2020-21.

Listen, Myers is better than both Edler and Tanev because he brings more offence than Edler and physicality than Tanev. He's a pretty good player and around $4M he's a discount deal. I prefer him to Ceci or Tanev.

You think our season is better if we switched Myers with Tanev? It wouldn't have made a difference.

Edler and Schmidt were by a mile the best defensive dmen on the team last year. I have no idea what you were watching last year if you think otherwise.

Myers sucks defensively, and he's terrible with Hughes. He's got a cap hit of $6 million a year. What the hell are you talking about? If you think replacing Schmidt with Poolman is some big upgrade, you're in for one hell of a rude awakening when this team takes the ice in the fall.

 

[Hit the post]

Edler and Schmidt were by a mile the best defensive dmen on the team last year. I have no idea what you were watching last year if you think otherwise.

Myers sucks defensively, and he's terrible with Hughes. He's got a cap hit of $6 million a year. What the hell are you talking about? If you think replacing Schmidt with Poolman is some big upgrade, you're in for one hell of a rude awakening when this team takes the ice in the fall.

Was watching them with glasses Linden recommended at Clearly Contacts.

 

[Get North]

Edler and Schmidt were by a mile the best defensive dmen on the team last year. I have no idea what you were watching last year if you think otherwise.

Myers sucks defensively, and he's terrible with Hughes. He's got a cap hit of $6 million a year. What the hell are you talking about? If you think replacing Schmidt with Poolman is some big upgrade, you're in for one hell of a rude awakening when this team takes the ice in the fall.

Myers had more goals, hits, points, takeaways than Schmidt. Sure Schmidt and Edler played shutdown minutes, but they got destroyed in those minutes so what's the use of bringing them back. They aren't bringing much offence, in Edler's case he's not bringing any at all (0 goals).

Edler can't skate, he's a 3rd pairing defenceman. He scored 0 goals. Myers is 2nd highest D-man for takeaways and Edler was in 4th place with 13 takeaways, which is almost less than Hamonic who hardly played. These stats don't determine outcomes of each game, but the point is Myers is not the root of the problems and you need to brush up on hockey IQ if you think he's the root of the problems.

Your points suck. "Sucks defensively" Uh well the numbers say he was actually one of the better defencemen. You can't think of hockey as "Schmidt replaces Poolman" "OEL replaces Edler".

Our PP was horrific last year. It was 25th with OTT/ANA/SJ. OEL is an upgrade on Schmidt for the 2nd unit. Neither Schmidt or Myers could play next to Hughes like you said, but fail to consider coaching.

In today's NHL being a coach is probably 60% off-ice and just keeping guys like Petey/Hughes happy which is ironically why we sucked last year. Scared to punish the stars and they don't face consequences for lazy play. Ultimately, it discourages the other 15~ skaters to sacrifice and work hard. Chicago had a young core but Quenneville held Kane responsible, mentored Seabrook/Toews. We got a tool for a head coach who gets sucked up by the media. He's not even ready for the game because media and reading twitter drains him.

The team mailed it in while Petey was healthy and then really couldn't win without their 1C. That's what happened in the quiet, rushed, COVID, filled season.

 

[Cornwallace]

Myers had more goals, hits, points, takeaways than Schmidt. Sure Schmidt and Edler played shutdown minutes, but they got destroyed in those minutes so what's the use of bringing them back. They aren't bringing much offence, in Edler's case he's not bringing any at all (0 goals).

Edler can't skate, he's a 3rd pairing defenceman. He scored 0 goals. Myers is 2nd highest D-man for takeaways and Edler was in 4th place with 13 takeaways, which is almost less than Hamonic who hardly played. These stats don't determine outcomes of each game, but the point is Myers is not the root of the problems and you need to brush up on hockey IQ if you think he's the root of the problems.

Your points suck. "Sucks defensively" Uh well the numbers say he was actually one of the better defencemen. You can't think of hockey as "Schmidt replaces Poolman" "OEL replaces Edler".

Our PP was horrific last year. It was 25th with OTT/ANA/SJ. OEL is an upgrade on Schmidt for the 2nd unit. Neither Schmidt or Myers could play next to Hughes like you said, but fail to consider coaching.

In today's NHL being a coach is probably 60% off-ice and just keeping guys like Petey/Hughes happy which is ironically why we sucked last year. Scared to punish the stars and they don't face consequences for lazy play. Ultimately, it discourages the other 15~ skaters to sacrifice and work hard. Chicago had a young core but Quenneville held Kane responsible, mentored Seabrook/Toews. We got a tool for a head coach who gets sucked up by the media. He's not even ready for the game because media and reading twitter drains him.

The team mailed it in while Petey was healthy and then really couldn't win without their 1C. That's what happened in the quiet, rushed, COVID, filled season.

How can Myers not be part of the problem when he got destroyed in somewhat sheltered minutes? It would have been even worse if he actually had to face the competition that Edler and Schmidt did lol.

It's funny that you say "the numbers say he was actually one of the better defencemen" because he just flat out wasn't. He brought some offense, but got was dreadful defensively. You're just using takeaways without any context, Quinn Hughes had by far the most takeaways on the defense but nobody is calling him a stout defender. Advanced stats paint a considerably different picture than the narrative you've come up with.



Myers is just a shitty offensive defensemen in a defensive defensemans body. The team is undoubtedly better with Tanev instead of him.

 

[Get North]

How can Myers not be part of the problem when he got destroyed in somewhat sheltered minutes? It would have been even worse if he actually had to face the competition that Edler and Schmidt did lol.

It's funny that you say "the numbers say he was actually one of the better defencemen" because he just flat out wasn't. He brought some offense, but got was dreadful defensively. You're just using takeaways without any context, Quinn Hughes had by far the most takeaways on the defense but nobody is calling him a stout defender. Advanced stats paint a considerably different picture than the narrative you've come up with.



Myers is just a shitty offensive defensemen in a defensive defensemans body. The team is undoubtedly better with Tanev instead of him.

No the numbers say he's better than Schmidt at scoring goals. I'm not interested in your advertising of the WAR chart, it's a discussion board. Let me see all the Canucks players charts (or a link?) and we can have a discussion. The only WAR I want to see is on the ice.

We can talk about Hughes and his high end hockey IQ disrupting passes. He loses guys sometimes, gets tired after long shifts, and loses physical battles which sometimes cost him. He's not a liability and neither is Myers. The players around them are.

 

[Cornwallace]

No the numbers say he's better than Schmidt at scoring goals. I'm not interested in your advertising of the WAR chart, it's a discussion board. Let me see all the Canucks players charts (or a link?) and we can have a discussion. The only WAR I want to see is on the ice.

We can talk about Hughes and his high end hockey IQ disrupting passes. I mean he loses guys sometimes, tired after long shifts, and physical battles only matter infront of the net which sometimes cost him. He's not a liability and neither is Myers. The players around them are.

Unless someone brings up a point of view you don't agree with I guess lol...

You literally said "Uh well the numbers say he was actually one of the better defencemen" so don't start backpedaling now.

He fails the eye test and the advanced stats back it up.

 

[jd22]

Myers was 1st in takeaways and 2nd in hits in the 2019-20 regular season. Nate Schmidt had 15 hits last season for reference which was less than Olli Juolevi! Nate was also 1st in giveaways in 2020-21.

Listen, Myers is better than both Edler and Tanev because he brings more offence than Edler and physicality than Tanev. He's a pretty good player and around $4M he's a discount deal. I prefer him to Ceci or Tanev.

You think our season is better if we switched Myers with Tanev? It wouldn't have made a difference.

I've seen some bad takes on this board but this is one of the worst. Wow.

Talk about being unable to see the forest for the trees.

 

[Nucker101]

Takeaways and giveaways are tracked so inconsistently and subjectively that you’d need a pretty damn big sample size for them to hold any weight.

And if we’re using hits to evaluate dmen..lol. I think it’s important to have some size on the back end but imagine using subjective/random stats and hits to evaluate a dman.

If you’re using stats that show Tyler Myers as a superior dman to Chris Tanev then you’re using the wrong stats.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

How can Myers not be part of the problem when he got destroyed in somewhat sheltered minutes? It would have been even worse if he actually had to face the competition that Edler and Schmidt did lol.

It's funny that you say "the numbers say he was actually one of the better defencemen" because he just flat out wasn't. He brought some offense, but got was dreadful defensively. You're just using takeaways without any context, Quinn Hughes had by far the most takeaways on the defense but nobody is calling him a stout defender. Advanced stats paint a considerably different picture than the narrative you've come up with.



Myers is just a shitty offensive defensemen in a defensive defensemans body. The team is undoubtedly better with Tanev instead of him.

Myers plays 20+ minutes a night , and plays on the PK..?..(against the other teams best players)..Also had 60% d-zone starts......How is that sheltered?

As for J,Fresh's charts...I guess that Darnell Nurse, Seth Jones and Josh Morrissey must all be replacement level D men as well..?