Value of: David Savard

[LazyCircuits]

Savard is a right D with one year left on a 4.25m salary and cap hit. Is there any serious interest around the league?

Columbus ideally wants the extra cap space or a 2nd line centre.

For the sake of Viqsi’s sanity, please don’t try to include Josh Anderson.

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[Richard88]

Savard is a right D with one year left on a 4.25m salary and cap hit. Is there any serious interest around the league?

Columbus ideally wants the extra cap space or a 2nd line centre.

For the sake of Viqsi’s sanity, please don’t try to include Josh Anderson.

Colorado would be interested and can offer you picks and capspace. Maybe Jost as well if you're interested in him.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Savard is a right D with one year left on a 4.25m salary and cap hit. Is there any serious interest around the league?

Columbus ideally wants the extra cap space or a 2nd line centre.

For the sake of Viqsi’s sanity, please don’t try to include Josh Anderson.

But I think we all want to see how big the list can get

If if its a 2C, it'd have to be a UFA to be as well no? Otherwise I see his value as a very late 1st to a contender (25th overall or later) or a 2nd + a teams #4-5 ranked prospect

 

[Unbiased Fan]

I’ll start this off Kasperi Kappenen for Josh Anderson

 

[cslebn]

But I think we all want to see how big the list can get

If if its a 2C, it'd have to be a UFA to be as well no? Otherwise I see his value as a very late 1st to a contender (25th overall or later) or a 2nd + a teams #4-5 ranked prospect

I think a similar contract status or adding to Savard would be possible.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

I think a similar contract status or adding to Savard would be possible.

And his next deal would be somewhat similar to Muzzins? Id say he's a tier below him so 4 years x $4.75 to 5 million?

 

[cslebn]

And his next deal would be somewhat similar to Muzzins? Id say he's a tier below him so 4 years x $4.75 to 5 million?

I don't think 5M would be unreasonable, certainly under 5.5M. Muzzin got what 5.6M? Scandella recently got 3.25M. Gardiner got 4M+. Savard is a RD though which I think adds value where as those are all LD. Also ~1 year younger (?) than Muzzin.

Orlov would be another decent comparable (though a touch younger by ~1 yr) and he signed at 5.1M. Boychuk is a similar, stay at home RD, who signed at 6M (2015) but I'd argue peak Boychuk is better.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

I don't think 5M would be unreasonable, certainly under 5.5M. Muzzin got what 5.6M? Scandella recently got 3.25M. Gardiner got 4M+. Savard is a RD though which I think adds value where as those are all LD. Also ~1 year younger (?) than Muzzin.

Orlov would be another decent comparable (though a touch younger by ~1 yr) and he signed at 5.1M

Ya good comparable players there, I factored in the flat cap that may shave 250-350k off the caphit and think GMs will shave a year off UFAs 30+ going forward.

 

[Viqsi]

For the sake of Viqsi’s sanity, please don’t try to include Josh Anderson.

...actually, if we get that #2C out of the deal, I wouldn't mind too terribly much.

* * *​

I’ll start this off Kasperi Kappenen for Josh Anderson

ERROR: #2C or draft picks not found

* * *​

Colorado would be interested and can offer you picks and capspace. Maybe Jost as well if you're interested in him.

I still want Kadri, but I'd be surprised if Colorado was willing to do that.

 

[LazyCircuits]

I still want Kadri, but I'd be surprised if Colorado was willing to do that.

You know someone is going to suggest Anderson for Kadri just to watch the reaction

 

[Meeqs]

Colorado would be interested and can offer you picks and capspace. Maybe Jost as well if you're interested in him.

Colorado already has too many Dmen. I don't see why they would be interested in the slightest.

Although I would be interested in gauging the interest around the league for him. It would be tough to get a 2c out of it but you never know. Maybe a deal around Stastny and VGK could make sense

 

[CatchyTune]

Does he come with an extension? I dont know if you guys would be interested in Johnsson/Kerfoot. I would be hesitant to offer Kapanen for a soon-to-be 30 year old, but I would be willing to work something out.

 

[Richard88]

Colorado already has too many Dmen. I don't see why they would be interested in the slightest.

Although I would be interested in gauging the interest around the league for him. It would be tough to get a 2c out of it but you never know. Maybe a deal around Stastny and VGK could make sense

Colorado have a lot of LHD's but are shallow at RHD, and if Timmins and Byram are deemed to need another season of development then a RHD with 1 year remaining would be a solid addition and give us 3 really good pairs.

Graves --- Makar
Girard --- Savard
Cole ----- Johnson

Maybe it would be more of a deadline acquisition though, as I'm sure Sakic will be keen to take a look at Byram and Timmins this season.

 

[Stuzchuk]

any interest in Chris Tierney (2020-RFA) + picks from OTT?

 

[Meeqs]

Colorado have a lot of LHD's but are shallow at RHD, and if Timmins and Byram are deemed to need another season of development then a RHD with 1 year remaining would be a solid addition and give us 3 really good pairs.

Graves --- Makar
Girard --- Savard
Cole ----- Johnson

Maybe it would be more of a deadline acquisition though, as I'm sure Sakic will be keen to take a look at Byram and Timmins this season.

I think it is about 99% that BB makes the Avs roster this year and Timmins is NHL ready as well. While I could expand on all of the points, there is so much going against this I don't think its really a conversation to be had.

While I think that maybe the TDL scenario could hold relevance so much will happen between then and now it will be better to have that convo when it comes, far too many unknowns atm. Also if you REALLY wanted to galaxy brain it, if this move could help the Avs move a contract like Comphers maybe there would be some incentive there as well, but that is some crazy min/maxing to the point where being realistic is out the window.

I think this thread is far more interesting on swaps and deals that make sense today and in the off season rather than edge cases at the TDL before the entire league see's events like the draft and UFA cause major shifts.

 

[Meeqs]

any interest in Chris Tierney (2020-RFA) + picks from OTT?

Is it really worth it for OTT to be moving for guys in his age range?

 

[Stuzchuk]

Is it really worth it for OTT to be moving for guys in his age range?

even in a rebuild you need vets on you team to help the kids develop properly.. well that's how I see it anyway

 

[Meeqs]

even in a rebuild you need vets on you team to help the kids develop properly.. well that's how I see it anyway

There are always avenues to address vets and leadership at a far less opportunity cost than something like this. Especially with the flat cap there will be no shortage of older depth players that Ott could sign for cheap to provide that role

 

[Viqsi]

You know someone is going to suggest Anderson for Kadri just to watch the reaction

I wish. My reaction to that would be "yes please thank you where do I sign".

* * *​

Does he come with an extension? I dont know if you guys would be interested in Johnsson/Kerfoot. I would be hesitant to offer Kapanen for a soon-to-be 30 year old, but I would be willing to work something out.

Johnsson is a winger, so no. Kerfoot is not a #2C, so not really - dropping below half a point per game soured me on him. The Leafs just don't have the #2C we need; y'all have a pair of elite badass #1Cs, and then a couple bottom-6 guys after them, and we're more than set on bottom-6 centers and I'm not about to insult the whole of Leafs Nation by suggesting Savard would be in a conversation about the other two. And Kapanen is a RW, and we're more than set at RW - we may not have a Marner or a Nylander to play with, but Bjorkstrand and Atkinson are still superior players.

<insert here: my standard griping about how Savard-for-Kadri would have ended world hunger and prevented the pandemic>

* * *​

any interest in Chris Tierney (2020-RFA) + picks from OTT?

I'm not sure if he's enough of an upgrade to justify that - when I think "#2C", I'm thinking 50 points or more. Would depend heavily on what those pick(s) are.

 

[CatchyTune]

I wish. My reaction to that would be "yes please thank you where do I sign".

* * *​

Johnsson is a winger, so no. Kerfoot is not a #2C, so not really - dropping below half a point per game soured me on him. The Leafs just don't have the #2C we need; y'all have a pair of elite badass #1Cs, and then a couple bottom-6 guys after them, and we're more than set on bottom-6 centers. And Kapanen is a RW, and we're more than set at RW - we may not have a Marner or a Nylander to play with, but Bjorkstrand and Atkinson are still superior players.

<insert here: my standard griping about how Savard-for-Kadri would have ended world hunger and prevented the pandemic>

* * *​

I'm not sure if he's enough of an upgrade to justify that - when I think "#2C", I'm thinking 50 points or more. Would depend heavily on what those pick(s) are.

Are you really expecting a Kadri level 2C for Savard? Even with an extension I doubt he could fetch that.

Now im not saying Kerfoot has enough value to acquire Savard, but you cant ignore the context behind him dropping in points. Going from 0.53PPG to 0.43PPG while taking a lesser, defensive roll, is not the end of the world.

His PP points went from 17 in 2017-18, to 16 in 2018-19, to 3 in 2019-20. He just didnt see that time with our stacked offense. If its points that you're worried about, I have no doubt he would bounce back to 40+ in a higher roll with PP time.

 

[Space Coyote]

I’ll start this off Kasperi Kappenen for Josh Anderson

Toronto isn't going to trade Kapanen for one season of 30 year-old defenceman.

 

[CatchyTune]

Toronto isn't going to trade Kapanen for one season of 30 year-old defenceman.

"Josh Anderson"

Doesnt make the offer any better though. Anderson is a downgrade from Kapanen.

 

[Viqsi]

Are you really expecting a Kadri level 2C for Savard? Even with an extension I doubt he could fetch that.

Yes. I am. Because Savard absolutely is at that level as a defender. And Kadri in particular was of interest because they're the same age (their birthdays are two weeks apart), and contract terms were fairly close (Kadri has an extra year). Some sweetener would have been due because of that extra year, but otherwise I really think it would have been a massive win-win.
EDIT: If it helps to make the comparison - think of it as getting a right-hand-shot Muzzin, only two years (well, one and a half) younger and with an extra contract year.

Now im not saying Kerfoot has enough value to acquire Savard, but you cant ignore the context behind him dropping in points. Going from 0.53PPG to 0.43PPG while taking a lesser, defensive roll, is not the end of the world.

Kerfoot's most common forward linemate was JOHN f***ING TAVARES. Followed by Ilya Mikheyev, who, yeah, okay, he's fine, he looked good, but then in a close 3rd we have William Nylander. So please don't try to sell me on "lesser roles" and "context" - he was playing with Toronto's star forwards. We do not exactly have Toronto-level forwards for him to hang out with.

 

[CatchyTune]

Yes. I am. Because Savard absolutely is at that level as a defender. And Kadri in particular was of interest because they're the same age (their birthdays are two weeks apart), and contract terms were fairly close (Kadri has an extra year). Some sweetener would have been due because of that extra year, but otherwise I really think it would have been a massive win-win.


Kerfoot's most common forward linemate was JOHN f***ING TAVARES. Followed by Ilya Mikheyev, who, yeah, okay, he's fine, he looked good, but then in a close 3rd we have William Nylander. So please don't try to sell me on "lesser roles" and "context" - he was playing with Toronto's star forwards. We do not exactly have Toronto-level forwards for him to hang out with.

Was it really? I guess that makes sense with the injuries to Johnsson and Mikheyev (thanks for the link btw, site looks awesome). Mikheyev is a weird one considering he only played 39 games.

That still doesnt address the lack of powerplay time, and how his PP points went from 16/17 to 3. I'm sure with sufficient powerplay time he would reach your .50 PPG benchmark.

 

[Viqsi]

Was it really? I guess that makes sense with the injuries to Johnsson and Mikheyev (thanks for the link btw, site looks awesome). Mikheyev is a weird one considering he only played 39 games.

That still doesnt address the lack of powerplay time, and how his PP points went from 16/17 to 3. I'm sure with sufficient powerplay time he would reach your .50 PPG benchmark.

Frankly, I was expecting to see Kapanen (actually #4) at or near the top, as my point was originally going to be "he's playing with the sorts of guys we already have". Turned out his linemates were, um, a cut above that.
EDIT: Bonus Fun Stuff - Kapanen's most common forward linemate was indeed Kerfoot. Looks like Kapanen just moved around a lot. Go figure.

And my benchmark for a sufficient #2C is actually higher than that; I prefer a 50-point pace or more (so, more .6/.61 than .5 ppg). I'm just willing to pay attention to cases in which the player is in between those two marks with a little bribery (thus the Tierney-and-a-pick debate above), because Jenner and Wennberg fell pretty short this year and so that's still at least probably a marginal upgrade.