Player Discussion David Quinn: Part III

[LokiDog]

It was shared here actually. He said this on a very popular Finnish podcast over the summer

See that’s exactly why people are leery of Quinn as a development coach.

Miraculously his trio of NCAA defenders (23/55/79) basically stepped into the NHL looking like polished products.

Everyone else has been questionable in terms of development at best. When you’re prized 2OA says he’s not comfortable to play his game that doesn’t bode well. Chytil looks to be coming on but the sample size is way to small to declare a victory. The Lias and Krav situations have question marks around them, but who knows. Buch and ADA were viewed as Quinn’s main development wins and ADA, while he put together his offensive game (QBing a PP with all world bread and all world Mika) he obviously didn’t develop as a person or professional. Maybe he couldn’t and that’s not on Quinn. That’s likely. Laf and Kakko with consistent 9-12 minute nights is a poor look.

I’m not saying he’s not an okay development coach, but there’s little in the way of tangible proof that he is, and there are littered bread crumbs suggesting he isn’t. And he certainly isn’t a systems and structure coach. I feel lack of confidence in Quinn is well justified.

 

[Chytilmania]

If Strome is going to be a part of this team then I think we need Trish in the locker room or behind the bench. If anyone can get them playing better its her.

 

[duhmetreE]

It was shared here actually. He said this on a very popular Finnish podcast over the summer

that's very alarming.

The skill players can only take so much before they doubt your every move/choice. It kills morale and trust.

From an entertainment pov, I miss the 2019 Rangers who were just having a good time, playing pond hockey. We used to see Zibs, Kreids, Buch and Panarin having laughs and chillen... that's not there. Obviously, we're having bad results but it could be a chicken and the egg scenario. Is morale bad because we're playing bad? Or is it, morale is bad, therefore we play bad?

I still think the 'seed of doubt' has been planted in the locker room. It's the beginning of the end for Quinn.

 

[aufheben]

See that’s exactly why people are leery of Quinn as a development coach.

Miraculously his trio of NCAA defenders (23/55/79) basically stepped into the NHL looking like polished products.

Everyone else has been questionable in terms of development at best. When you’re prized 2OA says he’s not comfortable to play his game that doesn’t bode well. Chytil looks to be coming on but the sample size is way to small to declare a victory. The Lias and Krav situations have question marks around them, but who knows. Buch and ADA were viewed as Quinn’s main development wins and ADA, while he put together his offensive game (QBing a PP with all world bread and all world Mika) he obviously didn’t develop as a person or professional. Maybe he couldn’t and that’s not on Quinn. That’s likely. Laf and Kakko with consistent 9-12 minute nights is a poor look.

I’m not saying he’s not an okay development coach, but there’s little in the way of tangible proof that he is, and there are littered bread crumbs suggesting he isn’t. And he certainly isn’t a systems and structure coach. I feel lack of confidence in Quinn is well justified.

9:00-12:00 = 10:30

Kakko 13:18 ATOI
Lafreniere 14:39 ATOI

 

[aufheben]

Lafreniere – 5th in ice-time for rookie forwards. The only one playing more than 16:00 per game is Kaprizov and he’s almost 24 lol.

Lafreniere – 4th in 5v5 ice-time for rookie forwards with 12:22. None of them are playing more than 5v5 13:00 per game.

I mean...just...

Not for nothing but Miller also 5th ice-time for rookie skaters (out of 95).

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Lafreniere – 5th in ice-time for rookie forwards. The only one playing more than 16:00 per game is Kaprizov and he’s almost 24 lol.

Lafreniere – 4th in 5v5 ice-time for rookie forwards with 12:22. None of them are playing more than 5v5 13:00 per game.

I mean...just...

Not for nothing but Miller also 5th ice-time for rookie skaters (out of 95).

pretty pathetic for 1st overall.

 

[LokiDog]

9:00-12:00 = 10:30

Kakko 13:18 ATOI
Lafreniere 14:39 ATOI

I didn’t say that was their average ice time. I said the fact we repeatedly have nights when that’s what they get is suspect for a development coach. Overall the ice time they get is fine. Kakko is a sophomore, he should probably be getting that extra 90-120 seconds per game but we spend a lot of time on the PK. But we do repeatedly have nights where one of them ends up stapled to the bench for 50 minutes.

 

[Miamipuck]

I can understand not liking Quinn for thinking he can't compete with the upper echelon of coaches with regard to team structure, defense or general strategy or system. That said, the f***ing contortion you guys go thru with regard to his development of young players when they're at or near the top of TOI compared to every young player in the league is quite amusing.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

that's very alarming.

The skill players can only take so much before they doubt your every move/choice. It kills morale and trust.

From an entertainment pov, I miss the 2019 Rangers who were just having a good time, playing pond hockey. We used to see Zibs, Kreids, Buch and Panarin having laughs and chillen... that's not there. Obviously, we're having bad results but it could be a chicken and the egg scenario. Is morale bad because we're playing bad? Or is it, morale is bad, therefore we play bad?

I still think the 'seed of doubt' has been planted in the locker room. It's the beginning of the end for Quinn.

FYI:

Here's the link to that podcast, Kakko's part begins on 35:00


Some reference what he said: He was asked that how does it feel when you were moved around to different lines quite often. He replied that of course it was difficult when one game you play with Panarin and guys + 1st PP and then next game 3rd line with 2nd PP and he just tried to work hard and improve to get back to 1st PP and line with Panarin.

He was also asked that did he have a good communication with coach regarding his game and effort, and he replied that they talked a lot and he tried to do as he says, but he trusted more on other guys on the first 2 lines and added that they played well so he had no complains about that but of course he would've wanted to play with those guys.

Also he said that towards the end of the season he didn't really try anything special because if he tried something, then coach said that don't do this and don't do that. Also he wasn't used to just dumping puck out of the zone, and he needed to practise that after training session with his 3rd linemates.

But as a conclusion, he said that he just needs to adapt to everything and simply play better to get that position in the first lines, basically just have to take it and not expect it to be given just because he is 2nd overall pick.

 

[Inferno]

I don't know how anyone could watch kakko last year and then blame the coaching for his failures.

The mental hoops people jump through.

Everytime he tried something "special" he turned the f***ing puck over and it was an odd man rush against.

You're God damn right a coach should tell him to cut that shit out. It's the same crap with kravtsov constantly trying the between his legs deke..there's only so many turnovers a coach is going to accept before he says cut that shit out.

This isn't the minors or the khl where guys fall for that crap. They know what to do, how to deal with it, and how to cause a turnover from your hot dog bullshit.

The only thing quinn should be held responsible for with regards to kakko is not sending him to hartford where his play clearly warranted him playing

Yes the kid showed signs of brilliance..but he wasn't just the worst player on the rangers...he was arguably the worst player in the nhl. The kid has absolutely no legs to stand on with regards to wanting to play more minutes or with better players.

He's been WAY better this year, and again I saw the flashes of brilliance so I wasn't worried.

But all of you guys somehow blaming quinn for kakko have either never watched an nhl hockey game or are in la la land thinking any coach in the nhl would put up with kakko turning the puck over two times every shift.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

I don't know how anyone could watch kakko last year and then blame the coaching for his failures.

The mental hoops people jump through.

Everytime he tried something "special" he turned the f***ing puck over and it was an odd man rush against.

You're God damn right a coach should tell him to cut that shit out. It's the same crap with kravtsov constantly trying the between his legs deke..there's only so many turnovers a coach is going to accept before he says cut that shit out.

This isn't the minors or the khl where guys fall for that crap. They know what to do, how to deal with it, and how to cause a turnover from your hot dog bullshit.

The only thing quinn should be held responsible for with regards to kakko is not sending him to hartford where his play clearly warranted him playing

Yes the kid showed signs of brilliance..but he wasn't just the worst player on the rangers...he was arguably the worst player in the nhl. The kid has absolutely no legs to stand on with regards to wanting to play more minutes or with better players.

He's been WAY better this year, and again I saw the flashes of brilliance so I wasn't worried.

But all of you guys somehow blaming quinn for kakko have either never watched an nhl hockey game or are in la la land thinking any coach in the nhl would put up with kakko turning the puck over two times every shift.

Couldn't agree more. It's easy to blame Quinn for our rookies (who are extremely young) not lighting it up. But if their play doesn't warrant it then you are doing them more harm than good.

Up in Buffalo they literally sat Cozens specific games so he could take a break and absorb the game. My God, if they did that here it would be blasphemy.

What gets on me about Quinn and the younsters is the constant line juggling and inconsistent usage. Im fine with reduced minutes at times, but jumping them all over the lineup and switching wings and units constantly is abrasive imho. Obviously Chytil going down was a big hit to Kakko but I've felt he's had a much much better season thus far - no matter where he has been. But it would be nice for him to have a "home".

Here we are with Kakko up with Panarin again. But heres the thing. STICK with it. If Quinn abandons that line in the first or second period like he has in the past what kind of message is that sending? I have more of an issue with that than anything else.

Can we at least see enough reps with Kaapo up on that line to make a true assessment if it works or not? 4 shifts isnt enough. 12 isnt. I want to see him up there for 3-4 games. Let them build some consistency with each other. The Strome Panarin marriage wasnt instant. It takes some patience.

 

[Inferno]

Couldn't agree more. It's easy to blame Quinn for our rookies (who are extremely young) not lighting it up. But if their play doesn't warrant it then you are doing them more harm than good.

Up in Buffalo they literally sat Cozens specific games so he could take a break and absorb the game. My God, if they did that here it would be blasphemy.

What gets on me about Quinn and the younsters is the constant line juggling and inconsistent usage. Im fine with reduced minutes at times, but jumping them all over the lineup and switching wings and units constantly is abrasive imho. Obviously Chytil going down was a big hit to Kakko but I've felt he's had a much much better season thus far - no matter where he has been. But it would be nice for him to have a "home".

Here we are with Kakko up with Panarin again. But heres the thing. STICK with it. If Quinn abandons that line in the first or second period like he has in the past what kind of message is that sending? I have more of an issue with that than anything else.

And that's fine..but then you have people saying...the coach needs to let the lines simmer a bit also saying the coach isn't doing enough to get his guys going.

Literally the number 1 tool a coach has to get the team going is to throw the lines in a blender.

We can't have it both ways.

 

[True Blue]

What gets on me about Quinn and the younsters is the constant line juggling and inconsistent usage. Im fine with reduced minutes at times, but jumping them all over the lineup and switching wings and units constantly is abrasive imho. Obviously Chytil going down was a big hit to Kakko but I've felt he's had a much much better season thus far - no matter where he has been. But it would be nice for him to have a "home".

Here we are with Kakko up with Panarin again. But heres the thing. STICK with it. If Quinn abandons that line in the first or second period like he has in the past what kind of message is that sending? I have more of an issue with that than anything else.

Can we at least see enough reps with Kaapo up on that line to make a true assessment if it works or not? 4 shifts isnt enough. 12 isnt. I want to see him up there for 3-4 games. Let them build some consistency with each other. The Strome Panarin marriage wasnt instant. It takes some patience.

Completely fair criticism.

Cozens is a great point. If Quinn sat Lafreniere, the mob would march on the Garden. But staying with Buffalo and Cozens for a minute. He has all of 3 points. He averages under 13 minutes per game. People here are pointing to Kakko's 2 goals and Lafreniere's 1 as signs of not developing and lack of progress. For reference, while getting a lot more ice time Dahlin has.......3 points.

In Ottawa, Stutzle has 3 goals and plays under 14 minutes a game. Is he progressing or is the coach killing his creativity and he is stagnating?

Look at Kakko's draft class. Exactly how many players from the first round are actually playing in the NHL? How many are playing in the NHL from the 2020 draft?

BTW, for those that thought that by simply getting away from Quinn that Andersson would blossom; in 7 games he has a point while averaging under 12 minutes.

 

[will1066]

If you are a young'un and show what you can do in the spot minutes or limited minutes Quinn initially gives you, he will give you more minutes. This is how Fox and Miller kept getting more minutes. Maybe Quinn does play favorites for some players, but every coach in hockey, no less sports, is like that.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I'll completely bag on Quinn's shitty usage of players with out even getting the rookies involved.

1. Taking f***ing forever to get Strome off of PP1.
2. Continuing to give a Covid recovering Mika a shit load of minutes. He sucks on the PK when hes healthy, he shouldn't be getting any time on it when hes compromised. I understand that he's going to play at ES and the PP (PP minutes are easier minutes) but the PK BS has to stop.
3. JJ playing at all
4. Picking and choosing how long he wants to run with people on certain lines. Kakko and Gauthier (who did get a bump in the 3rd last game, so good on him for recognizing when a player was going) get demoted after a period. Strome is allowed to suck for a half dozen games.
5. Trouba on PP2
6. ROTATING THE f***ING GOALIES EVEN THOUGH ONE IS CEARLY BETTER THAN THE OTHER.

Not going to even mention the DeAngelo situation because I'm honestly tired of talking about it.

 

[will1066]

I'll completely bag on Quinn's shitty usage of players with out even getting the rookies involved.

1. Taking f***ing forever to get Strome off of PP1.
2. Continuing to give a Covid recovering Mika a shit load of minutes. He sucks on the PK when hes healthy, he shouldn't be getting any time on it when hes compromised. I understand that he's going to play at ES and the PP (PP minutes are easier minutes) but the PK BS has to stop.
3. JJ playing at all
4. Picking and choosing how long he wants to run with people on certain lines. Kakko and Gauthier (who did get a bump in the 3rd last game, so good on him for recognizing when a player was going) get demoted after a period. Strome is allowed to suck for a half dozen games.
5. Trouba on PP2
6. ROTATING THE f***ING GOALIES EVEN THOUGH ONE IS CEARLY BETTER THAN THE OTHER.

Not going to even mention the DeAngelo situation because I'm honestly tired of talking about it.

"Mika? Why is he on the penalty kill? Why is he still getting so many minutes after Covid? Honestly, I forgot he had Covid." --David Quinn

 

[True Blue]

I'll completely bag on Quinn's shitty usage of players with out even getting the rookies involved.

1. Taking f***ing forever to get Strome off of PP1.
2. Continuing to give a Covid recovering Mika a shit load of minutes. He sucks on the PK when hes healthy, he shouldn't be getting any time on it when hes compromised. I understand that he's going to play at ES and the PP (PP minutes are easier minutes) but the PK BS has to stop.
3. JJ playing at all
4. Picking and choosing how long he wants to run with people on certain lines. Kakko and Gauthier (who did get a bump in the 3rd last game, so good on him for recognizing when a player was going) get demoted after a period. Strome is allowed to suck for a half dozen games.
5. Trouba on PP2
6. ROTATING THE f***ING GOALIES EVEN THOUGH ONE IS CEARLY BETTER THAN THE OTHER.

Not going to even mention the DeAngelo situation because I'm honestly tired of talking about it.

There is really nothing to discuss about the rookies, well because there really is nothing to discuss about the rookies. The DeAngelo thing has been beaten to death. Am still not sure where the criticism of Quinn or Gorton with regards to what happened comes from.

Honestly? Most of the rest could have been a cut and paste from the AV years.

 

[True Blue]

"Mika? Why is he on the penalty kill? Why is he still getting so many minutes after Covid? Honestly, I forgot he had Covid." --David Quinn

Gotta say. I was not really sure how AV could loose McD on the bench. So not really sure how Quinn can say that about Kakko. That is a legit criticism of him.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

There is really nothing to discuss about the rookies, well because there really is nothing to discuss about the rookies. The DeAngelo thing has been beaten to death. Am still not sure where the criticism of Quinn or Gorton with regards to what happened comes from.

Honestly? Most of the rest could have been a cut and paste from the AV years.

That doesn't make it okay.

AV is a dunce.

 

[sakux]

What gets on me about Quinn and the younsters is the constant line juggling and inconsistent usage. Im fine with reduced minutes at times, but jumping them all over the lineup and switching wings and units constantly is abrasive imho.

Well said!

Sure, you might think that these youngsters should be able to handle the pressure since they are 1 and 2 OA. But they are still young.
If they get the chance to play in the top lines and then get downgraded after a couple of mistakes it won't be easier for them the next time they get the chance on a top line.
They will feel even more pressured to succeed and not be able to play the game the way we all know they can.

 

[True Blue]

That doesn't make it okay.

AV is a dunce.

I remember reading similar criticism (not specifically from you per se) when it came time for AV

 

[aufheben]

This “rotating the goalies” thing has already become a full-blown meme.

Christ, read between the lines guys.

 

[NYR]

I don't blame Quinn for the young players ups/ downs what so ever.
It's completely expected.
It's all the other 101 stuff that he will just never get.
His shortcomings have been stated over and over again in this thread.
He's got to go..
They have to get this team back on track again.
Year #3..
Why wait any longer unless JG wants to trash yet another season?

 

[Quinnisinoverhishead]

I don't know how anyone could watch kakko last year and then blame the coaching for his failures.

The mental hoops people jump through.

Everytime he tried something "special" he turned the f***ing puck over and it was an odd man rush against.

You're God damn right a coach should tell him to cut that shit out. It's the same crap with kravtsov constantly trying the between his legs deke..there's only so many turnovers a coach is going to accept before he says cut that shit out.

This isn't the minors or the khl where guys fall for that crap. They know what to do, how to deal with it, and how to cause a turnover from your hot dog bullshit.

The only thing quinn should be held responsible for with regards to kakko is not sending him to hartford where his play clearly warranted him playing

Yes the kid showed signs of brilliance..but he wasn't just the worst player on the rangers...he was arguably the worst player in the nhl. The kid has absolutely no legs to stand on with regards to wanting to play more minutes or with better players.

He's been WAY better this year, and again I saw the flashes of brilliance so I wasn't worried.

But all of you guys somehow blaming quinn for kakko have either never watched an nhl hockey game or are in la la land thinking any coach in the nhl would put up with kakko turning the puck over two times every shift.

Nobody is arguing about his deployment of Kakko last year. I actually believe he gave him more opportunities than he should have. Kakko was atrocious last year... However, there was a game last year where Kakko was feeling it. I think he had a goal and an assist. He took a penalty in the third period (A clear mistake)... and then he got benched the rest of the game. Confidence is key in hockey. Don't screw around with a kids confidence.

This year is a new story. Kakkz and Chytil were on a mission to start the year.. Didn't matter to this coach, as he did nothing to fuel that fire. I detest his deployment of Kakko this year. He rewards teachers pets like Strome, Kreider and Trouba.. and punishes studs like Kakko and DeAngelo. It's okay, there should be only a couple games left with him at the helm..

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Was nice to see Kakko sticking with that line. He was all over the puck tonight and he forced two plays that lead to the two goals his line had.

At one point he was with the 4th line and I was about to lose my shit but it was just for a shift or two