Player Discussion David Quinn: Part II
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JHS
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- Oct 11, 2013
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Thank you for this. Our friend @True Blue loves to take my statements and make them either or propositions. I’ve never once said the entire fault of the defensive shortcomings is on the coach. Not once— he keeps wanting everyone to believe that though. What I’ve maintained is the coaching staff has created a defensive system that does not enable this team to be successful and the lack of experience of our defensemen only makes it worse.
If a coach sees he has the youngest defensive core in the NHL, most would advocate for a tight system that minimizes possibilities to turn the puck over or a system that relies on slowing the other team down through the neutral zone, thus making it easier for this young group to defend. Quinn’s does neither. He often has forwards flying the defensive zone which creates a situation where the defensemen have to make high risk passes without the possibility of defensive zone support if the pass gets intercepted. With regards to slowing the other team down through the neutral zone( something I pointed out 10 pages ago or so on this thread) Quinn’s system relies on heavy puck pressure in the offensive zone an at times, leaves the F3 without any support if the other team successfully bears the two attackers Quinn sends on the puck. Again, this system requires the F3 to make the correct decision( whether he also attacks the puck carrier or retreats to help the two defensemen.) This system clearly means the F3 has to make a split second decision or the other team has a clear path through the neutral zone because the defensemen have to retreat since they are now without backcheck support. To me, this system would work with a more experienced team, but Quinn does not have that. He’s asking guys to play in a system they are not ready for. The proof is in the results— the team is at or near the bottom of every defensive statistical category and would be way worse if it was not for above average goaltending.
The defensive zone coverage is a whole different story but again it comes down to a coaching decision( be passive on the puck, let the goalie see the first shot and clear the rebounds as quick as you can.). I do see some validity to this since Hank is an incredible first shot goalie and so is Georgie but it is why they give up ~40 something shots each game.
I didn't say Quinn has a very good chance of committing the same type of behavior. I only said I hope he doesn't (especially since from the rumors now it's an off-ice issue, potentially alcohol). The recent multiple coach firings made me wonder a bit if our coach has any crazy s*** in his story- despite the feel good stories msg has put out over the past few yeras.
Presumably Dallas vetted this guy, but he still violated their team rules. Same thing could've happened if he was hired here instead. Maybe it doesn't make you wonder a tiny bit, only extremely stupid ppl do I guess
But that is the same thing as saying I hope each and every person that I see on the street does not kill anyone. Why aren't you making the same exact comment in each separate player's thread?
That's the point. Why? Based on what? You are only making this assumption based on the fact that the Rangers interviewed Montgomery. To come to question Quinn based on this is idiotic.
A. Of course if he did it in Dallas, he could have done it here too. If a murderer kills someone in Cincinnati, chances are he could also kill someone in San Francisco.Presumably Dallas vetted this guy, but he still violated their team rules. Same thing could've happened if he was hired here instead. Maybe it doesn't make you wonder a tiny bit, only extremely stupid ppl do I guess
B. It does not make me wonder one tiny bit about Quinn. And yes, only stupid people would make such a connection. Wait. That just insults stupid people. Never-mind.
I know I posted this in the post-game thread but it’s been annoying me since last night:
I get that Fast is a good utility guy who can play anywhere, but he’s a prototypical good 4th liner. Put McKegg between Smith and Fast, play them 8 minutes a game and stop putting an anchor on nearly every line. What did we see, McKegg playing with Chytil and Buch tonight? That’s sure to be productive. Smith with Kakko and Howden. Sure those two kids are struggling right now, but Smith sure as shit isn’t a solution. And Fast is just not a guy who should be on your top line. Put those three on a 4th line where they belong and make 3 lines from Panarin/Z/Strome, Kreider/Chytil/Buch, Lemmy/Howden/Kakko. Stop saddling every line with a black hole. What is this “strategy” from Quinn? Spread the suck? How about just contain it to a bottom line that gets bottom minutes?
You’re not going to jump start any of your struggling players or get any confidence going in these guys by saddling every line with an anchor. These aren’t aging vets who have lost a step but can mentor and be fundamentally sound, or something that the kids can learn from. McKegg isn’t an NHL player. He’s a career AHL tweener and there’s zero reason he should take a shift with Chytil and Buch. Yeah, Howden and Kakko are struggling but if you’re not going to send them down, you’re also not going to get them to turn it around playing with a displaced Dman. We have 9 or 10 forwards with top 9 skill sets (even if they’re not playing great right now) and a few guys who clearly belong on the 4th line seeing minimal ice. It shouldn’t be rocket science.
I get that Fast is a good utility guy who can play anywhere, but he’s a prototypical good 4th liner. Put McKegg between Smith and Fast, play them 8 minutes a game and stop putting an anchor on nearly every line. What did we see, McKegg playing with Chytil and Buch tonight? That’s sure to be productive. Smith with Kakko and Howden. Sure those two kids are struggling right now, but Smith sure as shit isn’t a solution. And Fast is just not a guy who should be on your top line. Put those three on a 4th line where they belong and make 3 lines from Panarin/Z/Strome, Kreider/Chytil/Buch, Lemmy/Howden/Kakko. Stop saddling every line with a black hole. What is this “strategy” from Quinn? Spread the suck? How about just contain it to a bottom line that gets bottom minutes?
You’re not going to jump start any of your struggling players or get any confidence going in these guys by saddling every line with an anchor. These aren’t aging vets who have lost a step but can mentor and be fundamentally sound, or something that the kids can learn from. McKegg isn’t an NHL player. He’s a career AHL tweener and there’s zero reason he should take a shift with Chytil and Buch. Yeah, Howden and Kakko are struggling but if you’re not going to send them down, you’re also not going to get them to turn it around playing with a displaced Dman. We have 9 or 10 forwards with top 9 skill sets (even if they’re not playing great right now) and a few guys who clearly belong on the 4th line seeing minimal ice. It shouldn’t be rocket science.
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Tawnos
A guy with a bass
SA16
Sixstring
Did you see him in the playoffs for Carolina last year?
KirkAlbuquerque
#WeNeverGetAGoodCoach
He's a likeable personality, always says the right things during the pressers, I love how he doesn't just give cliche answers and is quite honest with what he says which is pretty rare for a coach, but holy shit he has the team playing like total garbage, and its been all season only now Hank and Georgie aren't covering the team's mistakes like they were before. So many players are slumping, production-wise and its basically only Panarin, Zibanejad, and occasionally Kreider who do anything out there.
Brooklyn Rangers Fan
Change is good.
I’ve been a Quinn supporter, but the team has had a number of ugly games in a short stretch now, and some of that has got to be on the coaching. He needs to right the ship.
They're going to quit on him imo. After the timeout last night, they had a couple of decent shifts but didn't really shoot the puck.
But the look on every guys face during the time out... They looked like a bunch that did not appreciate the public humiliation.
To me this is a bit tied to the line combos. I’m sure the guys love Fast and Smith and McKegg in the room, but when you’re slumping and getting less minutes I doubt anyone likes getting staples to one of those guys. I’m sure Panarin has wondered why he’s carrying Fast around when there’s a much more talented fellow Russian who plays the opposite wing that would probably produce a whole lot more if he was on the other side. I get that Buch hasn’t been very good lately but when the depth is as bad as it is, you don’t really have the luxury of making everyone “earn” their minutes, and while I get that Fast does all the little things right that Quinn probably loves as a coach, he’s literally handicapping everyone on the roster with his line combos.
It's just dumb decision making. It's more than just the line combos. We've repeated a bunch of faults on here, but he's got a higher grade on this poll due to timing imo.
You had you're usual November stretch where Hank stole a few games. George did the same.
When you don't get that, you see what this team is. They are bottom ten in the league. Which has been the case for most of the season, but the question is if they're are bottom 5 team?
I think Quinnie can get them to the bottom 5 slot.
Blue Blooded
Most people rejected his message
Putting Fast in the same box as McKegg or SMITH is a very weird categorization.
Fast is a beast on the forecheck and one of the better players in the league at getting chances around the net. He only shoots when he has a good opportunity, which is actually a good thing since his shot in and of itself isn't that great. He is 27th in the league in 5v5 Sh% over the past three seasons (just a few spots behind Panarin) despite having a below average shot and the clear #1 in xSh%. In addition he is one of the best defensive forwards in the league.
Zibanejad has had better results in every category with Fast on his line than without Fast over the past three seasons.
He's scored 5v5 points at a higher rate than Ryan Strome, Mike Hoffman, Derek Stepan and Alex Galchenyuk over the past three seasons.
Fast is obviously better than those two, but he’s still a prototypical bottom six player. My intention isn’t to lump him in that group to discredit him, but the fact remains that he shouldn’t be a mainstay on our top line. He does plenty of very good things and I’m hoping we re-sign him, but he should be on the third or fourth line. And even while he’s far less than ideal playing opposite Panarin, he isn’t my main gripe with the line combos. Put Howden with Smith and McKegg on the 4th line and leave them there. I’d like to see Buch opposite Panarin but Fast is at least a competent NHL caliber player who does a lot of good things. I think putting someone with talent and creativity opposite Panarin would result in more space for both of them and probably more production. On the flip side, I think running Chytil and Buch with Smith or McKegg just creates a nothing line.
Blue Blooded
Most people rejected his message
I agree that a line of Panarin-Strome-Fast probably isn't optimal, but that has as much (if not more) to do with Strome as it has with Fast. Panarin-Zibanejad-Fast or Panarin-Chytil-Fast would probably work very well. A player like Fast (an even greater example is prime Carl Hagelin) is great to have as it allows you to create great lines without using up all your talent. While Fast can't carry a line offensively, I'd say he's actually a better fit in a top-6 than on a 3rd line unless you have a really deep forward corps.
Kreider-Zibanejad-Fast has probably been our best somewhat regular line over the past three seasons (behind Kreider-Zibanejad-Zuccarello) and has had better results than Kreider-Zibanejad-Buchnevich even.
Blue Blooded
Most people rejected his message
Mac n Gs
Gorton plz
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I see a lot of individual improvements, but they still haven't shown the ability to play as a cohesive 5-man unit. I guess that's fine for a rebuild, but it still is rather strange that Quinn can't get this team to play with structure for 1.5 years now.
will1066
Your positivity is not welcomed
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No. Not at all. Fast may turn the chances he's given into 60-foot-wide shots, but he creates chances for others.
UnSandvich
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I say this tongue in cheek because there is something to be said for young guys having the right attitude and putting in the work, but are we gonna be able to start tracking whether he has a net positive “intention” each night? He could have the right effort and intention in the AHL and also... develop. If his attitude and effort is that good he should respond well to a stint in the AHL, like Chytil.
I came into this season expecting to be better than last year, but not much else. I really was looking to judge Quinn this year, because he actually has a decent roster and a good coach could make something out of this.
Aside from Panarin and Zib, who we all expected to play like this, I see Fox, Chytil, ADA, Buch, and Lindgren making good progress as individuals. I just feel like the team plays less than the sum of its parts. Hajek was having a rough time and Staal is abysmal, but one player shouldn’t tank an entire 6 man D unit. Something is very wrong with the defense in here and has been for some time.
Aside from Panarin and Zib, who we all expected to play like this, I see Fox, Chytil, ADA, Buch, and Lindgren making good progress as individuals. I just feel like the team plays less than the sum of its parts. Hajek was having a rough time and Staal is abysmal, but one player shouldn’t tank an entire 6 man D unit. Something is very wrong with the defense in here and has been for some time.
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