David Desharnais

[Whitesnake]

Therrien's issue is that he thinks in order to win DD needs to be producing, because in his mind Desharnais is one of the team's best offensive forwards. That's why he's willing to break up the other lines in order to get Desharnais going, because in his mind getting Desharnais going is the only/best way we win.

So....if we win because of that....what is the problem? OF COURSE, if we lose because of that, THEN it's a problem.

Therrien has to be an incredible idiot that shouldn't even coach a pee-wee team. The guy actually waits till he loses Price AND Gallagher and probably faces his tougher challenges yet with the upcoming road trip before he tries to prove a point about DD. He is insane. If he REALLY would be coaching for and only for DD, he wouldn't put him in that position to make this line MORE succesful than in already was....BEFORE the toughest challenge of the year as far as opposition AND injuries. Therrien and DD can ONLY fail. There are no other options. But if it works.....

 

[Habs178]

Well for starter, offensive minded players are more likely to play more when trailing in a game so right there you have something that is not accounted for in a "stats" like this one. This "stats" has no value.

Well with the losing record we have with DD playing more minutes....perhaps because we were trailing...shows that it clearly failed. Can you seriously not put that together? LOL

 

[MXD]

Well with the losing record we have with DD playing more minutes....perhaps because we were trailing...shows that it clearly failed. Can you seriously not put that together? LOL

That's a score effect.

 

[Milhouse40]

When DD plays <15 min Habs are 10-1
When DD plays >15 min Habs are 9-6

I did something similar....since Desharnais is again our joke of 1st line center. This is is production when he plays first line minutes this season:

Toronto: 16:51 0 points
Vancouver: 17:25 0 points -1
Ottawa : 18:44 0 points
Pittsburgh: 16:30 0 points -1
Vancouver: 17:47 1 goals +1
Arizona 17:35 0 points
New Jersey: 18:45 0 points -1
New Jersey: 17:17 0 points
Columbus: 17:45 0 points -1

1 point in 9 games and he's -3

Well, sorry, but as stupid as I think Therrien can be, I will never buy that he puts DD success ON TOP of his team's success. There is just no way that Therrien has no problem being fired but he'll say "At least DD got tons of points". It makes no sense, even for Therrien. If the move ends up creating losing games....it won't be there till the end of the year. Pure overreaction while we have no idea how many games it will last.

The reason I do see, though I ALSO don't agree, is that he wants to have more complete lines possible since Gallagher isn't there. All great to say that again, DD moves to the 1st line, when on ES, chances are the Pleks line will have about the same icetime as the DD line. Anyway, this thread will be happy. You will finally see the resurgence of Winter Eclipse who we haven'T seen a whole lot lately....Wonder why....

Have fun people. May this subject never die....we might have to close this board if it does.

He did it with Bouillon when he was here....using him on the PP at every turns despite having tons of better options. Did it with Ouellet and Armstrong in Pittsburgh......(Amrstrong was signed by the Habs when Therrien arrives and Ouellet received a PTO despite not playing in the NHL for 4 years)

Went even out of his way and put Brook Orpik on the wing to pissed him off despites it was a bad move for the team's success.

 

[Sorinth]

It's called "score effect".

I distinctly remember somebody coming up with it in order to downgrade Alexander Ovechkin, saying that, whenever he played x+ minutes, the Caps were losing.

Which begs the question, if Desharnais was the team's 3rd line center, why was he playing more when we are behind.

Also when Pacioretty plays 19min or more the team is 10-2-1, when he's under 19min it's 9-2-2 so slightly worse, how come the score effect isn't hurting Max?

 

[JLP]

That is a b.s stats. When people say that you can have stats tell you the story you want to hear, this is exactly it.

Why? The more DD plays the worst the team does, it's an observation. (I didn't check this but I'd bet DD actually scores more in the games where he plays less.)

Maybe Therrien is trying to find the sweet spot: maximize DD's TOI and points while we still managing a winning record. That's what coaches do when their son is on the team hehehe.

Seriously we all suspected David Desharnais would be reunited with Pacioretty this season, so you win you should be delighted!

 

[Habs178]

That's a score effect.

Yeah I get it....clearly serge doesn't.

 

[MXD]

Which begs the question, if Desharnais was the team's 3rd line center, why was he playing more when we are behind.

Also when Pacioretty plays 19min or more the team is 10-2-1, when he's under 19min it's 9-2-2 so slightly worse, how come the score effect isn't hurting Max?

Come on, there's no variation with Patches.

Second, DD playing more is MT's problem. They don't lose because DD plays more, but DD is used more when trailing because MT thinks he's better at offense.

That is the problem.

There could be other reasons.

 

[Whitesnake]

I did something similar....since Desharnais is again our joke of 1st line center. This is is production when he plays first line minutes this season:

Toronto: 16:51 0 points
Vancouver: 17:25 0 points -1
Ottawa : 18:44 0 points
Pittsburgh: 16:30 0 points -1
Vancouver: 17:47 1 goals +1
Arizona 17:35 0 points
New Jersey: 18:45 0 points -1
New Jersey: 17:17 0 points
Columbus: 17:45 0 points -1

1 point in 9 games and he's -3



He did it with Bouillon when he was here....using him on the PP at every turns despite having tons of better options. Did it with Ouellet and Armstrong in Pittsburgh......(Amrstrong was signed by the Habs when Therrien arrives and Ouellet received a PTO despite not playing in the NHL for 4 years)

Went even out of his way and put Brook Orpik on the wing to pissed him off despites it was a bad move for the team's success.

Bouillon had around the same icetime with the Habs than he had with Nashville, Therrien wasn't coaching in Nashville. Bouillon even played the PP in Nashville as well. Did it lasted 1 year too many? Maybe. But icetime didn't skyrocketed from his Nashville time to Montréal. On the contrary. For Ouellet, not sure how giving a PTO is so detrimental to a team.....

Yeah, coaches have guys they prefer. It happens. But at one point, even those guys have an expiry date. Armstrong and Bouillon were let go. We'll see about DD.

 

[Kriss E]

This is joke. The vast majority of hf habs posters give him no credit.

Just last two days, his responsibility on the last faceoff was so ridicule that even you and kip were saying it wasn't is fault.

Hf will be fun to read for the next few days.

Just because people discuss a decision, like who to send out there, doesn't mean they're criticizing his entire body of work.
You guys just lump everything in together. Hey..he said Therrien was fat, freaking hater, he gives him no credit.

 

[Kriss E]

Patches & Plek did get their points but they were not playing well. Therrien was trying to get them going in order to WIN a hockey game. He's putting the players who he thinks, on any given night, can help the team win games. Period. Everything else is secondary.

Honest to God, my kids are acting the same way as some posters here.

- "Can I get ice cream?"
- "But you're not hungry."
- "Yes but my sister had some"...

All this bickering about one player who was used more than another and another player who had one opportunity 3 months ago while this other player is not getting the exact same opportunity. Rince and repeat. Phew! Exhausting!.

There is no rational conversation to be had. Some of you don't accept Michel Therrien as the bench boss and person in charge of the team. Plain and simple. Guess what, the message seems to be well received by whom it matters most: the players.

Speaking of kids, sounds like when your children refuse to admit they lied or cheated.
Just like you can't admit there is a double standard with regards to DD. Not even debating whether it's justified or not, the first step would be for some of you guys to admit there is one. Can't even do that even if it's as clear as day.

 

[Sorinth]

Come on, there's no variation with Patches.

Second, DD playing more is MT's problem. They don't lose because DD plays more, but DD is used more when trailing because MT thinks he's better at offense.

That is the problem.

There could be other reasons.

Which is exactly the problem, Therrien thinks Desharnais is better than he is and so we lose more because when Desharnais plays more our other better players play less.

In those 5 losses where Desharnais played more than 16min, he played more than Pacioretty in 2 of them. There's simply no explanation for that. And if we are down by a goal looking for offence in those games, why is Galchenyuk's average TOI 14:47? If we are looking for a goal shouldn't we play Galchenyuk more?

 

[Kriss E]

Well, sorry, but as stupid as I think Therrien can be, I will never buy that he puts DD success ON TOP of his team's success. There is just no way that Therrien has no problem being fired but he'll say "At least DD got tons of points". It makes no sense, even for Therrien. If the move ends up creating losing games....it won't be there till the end of the year. Pure overreaction while we have no idea how many games it will last.

The reason I do see, though I ALSO don't agree, is that he wants to have more complete lines possible since Gallagher isn't there. All great to say that again, DD moves to the 1st line, when on ES, chances are the Pleks line will have about the same icetime as the DD line. Anyway, this thread will be happy. You will finally see the resurgence of Winter Eclipse who we haven'T seen a whole lot lately....Wonder why....

Have fun people. May this subject never die....we might have to close this board if it does.

WS, come on, that's just silly.
I never said Therrien believes DD's success is more important than the team's. The point is he thinks DD is a very important part of the offense, more so than Eller, more so than Galchenyuk, more so than Semin, maybe even more so than Plekanec.

More complete lines?? Well, again, that's just silly, if not dumb. Plek-Patches were a ppg duo. Eller-Galch-Ghetto were on fire...DD's line was even doing well despite not producing (even that, I would argue that they were actually producing like a 3rd line instead of the insane high they had earlier).
So what better lines are you talking about?? Plek with Flash and Byron?? That's going to improve or maintain Plek's production?

Therrien believes DD's production is very important to our team, so he gives him the best winger. There's really no conspiracy theory here. It's very clear.

 

[Hoople]

Hey, there's nothing wrong with this. It's just an "in-game adjustment". There's absolutely nothing wrong with removing the 4th highest scoring center in the league from your best winger only to replace him with your third-line center.

What has Plekanec not done to be removed from Pacioretty? What has Weise and Desharnais done to be playing with Pacioretty? Can it be anymore obvious that Therrien illogically favours DD and Wiese?

Last season, Therrien said that DD being removed from Max and having to play wing would be good for DD's career...it lasted 9 games.

Then before the start of this season, Therrien said that DD being removed from Max and having to center on the third line (but promised power-play time) would be good for DD...it lasted 25 games.

Pathetic. Therrien was doing so well, sadly however, he seems to have reverted to his nonsense again.

Pleks was hammered here for losing a Faceoff.

 

[Hoople]

WS, come on, that's just silly.
I never said Therrien believes DD's success is more important than the team's. The point is he thinks DD is a very important part of the offense, more so than Eller, more so than Galchenyuk, more so than Semin, maybe even more so than Plekanec.

More complete lines?? Well, again, that's just silly, if not dumb. Plek-Patches were a ppg duo. Eller-Galch-Ghetto were on fire...DD's line was even doing well despite not producing (even that, I would argue that they were actually producing like a 3rd line instead of the insane high they had earlier).
So what better lines are you talking about?? Plek with Flash and Byron?? That's going to improve or maintain Plek's production?

Therrien believes DD's production is very important to our team, so he gives him the best winger. There's really no conspiracy theory here. It's very clear.

And.....our best winger potted the GWG. And.....we won the game.

 

[Nynja*]

And.....our best winger potted the GWG. And.....we won the game.

And if the lines were deployed properly, we may have never needed a late powerplay GWG.

 

[Nynja*]

If the jackets didnt ***** two open nets, that late PP goal would have merely put us down by 1.

But i guess were back to "it takes 2 goals to win da game"

 

[Kriss E]

And.....our best winger potted the GWG. And.....we won the game.

Well thank god for that! Let's keep doing what has repeatedly failed for 3 years then...A recipe that will for sure help us.

 

[Milhouse40]

Bouillon had around the same icetime with the Habs than he had with Nashville, Therrien wasn't coaching in Nashville. Bouillon even played the PP in Nashville as well. Did it lasted 1 year too many? Maybe. But icetime didn't skyrocketed from his Nashville time to Montréal. On the contrary. For Ouellet, not sure how giving a PTO is so detrimental to a team.....

Yeah, coaches have guys they prefer. It happens. But at one point, even those guys have an expiry date. Armstrong and Bouillon were let go. We'll see about DD.

Therrien has fallen in love with some crappy players over the years....Getting Ouellet a PTO after not one NHL team was interested in him for 4 years. Therrien was still interested. Same goes for Armstrong

I looked it up for Bouillon....

Last year in Nashville he played 21:13 on the PP in 66 games
And the next year under Therrien it was 74:43 in 48 games (More than Galchenyuk)

And Bouillon didn't even recorded a points on the PP that year......
So yeah, his ice-time rocketed from Nashville to Montreal.

Most coach have favorites and those favorites are those who makes you win games, the best players overall on their teams. Not for Therrien. He seems to fall in love with the underdogs (Bouillon, Desharnais, Gallagher, Weise, Ouellet, Armstrong)

 

[Tourist]

Most coach have favorites and those favorites are those who makes you win games, the best players overall on their teams. Not for Therrien. He seems to fall in love with the underdogs (Bouillon, Desharnais, Gallagher, Weise, Ouellet, Armstrong)

Looking at icetime and responsibilities given I'd say he's also (mostly) fallen in love with Subban, Markov, Petry, Plekanec and Pacioretty.

 

[Hoople]

And if the lines were deployed properly, we may have never needed a late powerplay GWG.

If I were born in the UK, Queen Elizabeth might have been my mum.

 

[SirClintonPortis]

Looking at icetime and responsibilities given I'd say he's also (mostly) fallen in love with Subban, Markov, Petry, Plekanec and Pacioretty.

You really think people are that stupid in which we just look at some numbers and jump off a cliff in reaching a conclusion? Look in the mirror before yapping.

That doesn't disprove that he feeds certain players icetime they don't deserve. Therrien using Crosby and Malkin doesn't mean Oullet was not his pet, because he gave Oullet said top centers to further Ouellet's career at the expense of using a better forward at his disposal.

Xavier Ouellet, Francis Bouillon, and DD, are all data points in which a player is being used well

 

[Milhouse40]

And.....our best winger potted the GWG. And.....we won the game.

Come on Southern, talk to me about Eller who has to EARNED his ice-time if he wants to get more or a real shot. Talk to me about how Desharnais earn this.....

Looking at icetime and responsibilities given I'd say he's also (mostly) fallen in love with Subban, Markov, Petry, Plekanec and Pacioretty.

Tell that to Plekanec who is skating with Byron and will be used as a shutdown center despite being on the best point producer in the league at center. I'm sure he's thrilled.

For the others.....i remember the little war Subban had to go through the first 2 years. Petry and Pacioretty are in the good grace but i don't see Therrien having to help them out either.

 

[MXD]

You really think people are that stupid in which we just look at some numbers and jump off a cliff in reaching a conclusion? Look in the mirror before yapping.

That doesn't disprove that he feeds certain players icetime they don't deserve. Therrien using Crosby and Malkin doesn't mean Oullet was not his pet, because he gave Oullet said top centers to further Ouellet's career at the expense of using a better forward at his disposal.

Xavier Ouellet, Francis Bouillon, and DD, are all data points in which a player is being used well

Tell me, which better player MT had at his disposal when he gave 14 minutes a night to Michel Ouellet in 05-06 and 13:20 in 06-07...

 

[Nynja*]

If I were born in the UK, Queen Elizabeth might have been my mum.

So Davey seeing his ice time increase after putting 3 points in 10 games is ok, he's earning that ice time right?