David Desharnais part XIII- Third Star in Our Hearts Edition

[LyricalLyricist]

I liked him on the 3rd line and 2nd PP unit. I thought it took a lot of pressure of his shoulders. He also started moving his feet again and working really hard.

I don't mind him anywhere as long as it's not a set in stone line-up. DD is a good player IMO but he's not beyond moving up and down the line up.

 

[Monctonscout]

MS,
What did Eller do for you last year in the PO's?
Other than displace Davey in ES icetime.
Why was that because he is a one dimentional visionless cowardly wretch?

Stick to praising DD and watch some reruns of the 2014 PO's.
Talk to us about matchups.

Eller played very well in the playoffs, but you have to keep stuff like that in context. He and Bourque were shooting the puck and everything was going in. Doesn't magically make them "playoff warriors". It doesn't change the fact that if he was a #2 center this year and last we probably don't even make the playoffs. It's comical that people pull out this "the only time that counts" BS about the playoffs...if you don't get there then it doesn't count anyways...

Desharnais had strong playoffs but he spent most of it having to carry a guy like Vanek who refused to compete for anything. Pacioretty's numbers were also well down...why do you think that is? I guess it's Desharnais' fault that Vanek didn't care and mailed it in??

 

[Yep]

Does he suck as bas as your assessment of him sucking.

Suck as bass? Really? Do they? I guess you meant the largemouth kind...

 

[Kriss E]

How was his first playoffs bad, Whitesnake? He got more ice-time every game by looking good, and ended up on the second line with Gomez and Gionta, and looked awesome before his injury.

Awesome is a little much but I do agree he looked pretty good next to Gomez and Gio. We should have kept him on the wing the following season.

 

[Rapala]

Eller played very well in the playoffs, but you have to keep stuff like that in context. He and Bourque were shooting the puck and everything was going in. Doesn't magically make them "playoff warriors". It doesn't change the fact that if he was a #2 center this year and last we probably don't even make the playoffs. It's comical that people pull out this "the only time that counts" BS about the playoffs...if you don't get there then it doesn't count anyways...

Desharnais had strong playoffs but he spent most of it having to carry a guy like Vanek who refused to compete for anything. Pacioretty's numbers were also well down...why do you think that is? I guess it's Desharnais' fault that Vanek didn't care and mailed it in??

????
DD had a good try at a strong playoffs and was commended for his efforts that fell short in the physicality department. We can't afford to have our top playmakers constantly run off the puck.

Does any of this ring a bell?

 

[Doc McKenna]

Eller played very well in the playoffs, but you have to keep stuff like that in context. He and Bourque were shooting the puck and everything was going in. Doesn't magically make them "playoff warriors". It doesn't change the fact that if he was a #2 center this year and last we probably don't even make the playoffs. It's comical that people pull out this "the only time that counts" BS about the playoffs...if you don't get there then it doesn't count anyways...

Desharnais had strong playoffs but he spent most of it having to carry a guy like Vanek who refused to compete for anything. Pacioretty's numbers were also well down...why do you think that is? I guess it's Desharnais' fault that Vanek didn't care and mailed it in??

Vanek and Patches had 10 and 11 respectively. DD had 8, so he may have been playing harder than vanek, but he wasn't carrying him, because vanek was clearly scoring without him.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

DDs compete level was there in the playoffs. Vanek was either injured or disinterested at times. I feel that Subban hit that sent him out for a bit did more damage than he let on.

I feel Max had a meh playoffs too but one of the things that annoyed me about that entire line was not that X player had a bad playoff or whatever. It happens. Vanek may have not had his best performance, same with max and DD. What gets to me is that not one of the players were able to carry the line. In the case of DD, the effort was there, he tried, he won some board battles but seeing Chara pin him against the boards was a recipe for disaster.

At the end of the day, DD is a complimentary player. He will do well in particular contexts but he doesn't have the skill or size to carry a line. In the playoffs, when a particular top talent isn't at his best, the other top talent may carry the line. Pacioretty has that ability(even if we didn't see it during the playoffs) but DD doesn't.

Some might argue that Galchenyuk has that ability or Plekanec...but neither do. In certain aspects, they are way more dangerous but Galchenyuk isn't a star either, not yet.

This is why I kind of prefer a Max-Plekanec duo because even if they aren't producing they are facing tough matchups and freeing up some softer minutes for less dominating players like DD who in a 2nd/3rd line role would be adequate.

Now, if DD fails to produce in 1st line, it doesn't necessarily mean he's a bad player(or course, if he does 0s across the board by the end, enough is enough) but he should only be on 1st line if he's producing. If he isn't, might as well put max-plek together and make life easier for others.

I'd also point out that Max this time last year wasn't as good as he is now. He's much more clutch, dominant and you see the signs of progression. I think he will kill it this year so not worried about him! Should be fun to watch.

 

[Kriss E]

Well he was a good bet to take. Dominating every level he played in, when he joined the Habs, a 1st season is a 1st season for everybody, I don't think we can bash that. Only had 5 games to shine in the PO...didn't. 2nd season...here's that 60-point season you were talking about that people STILL laughed at because he was playing with the 2 best wingers. So he was improving, showing some good things...you think it then deserved to be removed from that opportunity? Don't think so. So that season meant that he deserve to have the benefit of the doubt for the next one. A shortened season with only 5 games in the playoffs as well....so I guess people still wanted to see what he'd do on a regular season. Which was last year....a terrible start, followed by a much better stretch. Really average playoffs though, to say the least. I guess that last stretch made him still get another chance this year....which is, for me, clearly his LAST chance. Especially if he doesn't have good playoffs, he's simply gone. What we know from this year is that he doesn'T have good enough stats in the regular season. and if you do add it to subpar playoffs....there won't be any stretch to build something favorable for him to get other chances. 2 bad playoffs with only 1 poinst each, yet only 5 games to go for. One really aveage one last year...I guess they are expecting an improvement this year. A guy like Ribeiro, sucked in his first 3 playoffs before he went almost PPG in his 4th year. I guess they are expecting that for DD. So 4 years that it was enough? It then had to mean that you NEVER wanted him there in the first place and was tired from the get-go. That's not exactly giving a chance to somebody. Now, he doesn't deserve any if he doesn't shine immensely in the playoffs. Chances will be done. But he deserved some at first based on his progression and success in previous leagues. That time is up though. He needed a great regular season. He's not going to have it. Only leaves some incredible playoffs to somehow change how he's perceived.....we'll see if that happens. We mostly all think it won't though.

I don't recall people laughing at him. I remember some being upset because we decided to use him in an offensive role when the guy we traded for was rotting on the bottom line. They also saw a player with limited potential, so they laughed at people claiming he was the next MSL.
Guess what? People were absolutely right to question DD. Now in his fifth season as a late bloomer, it's clear what he is and where he should play, yet here he is, still getting those top opportunities as if he's a first liner and best offensive center. So ya, I get why some folks are frustrated.
Ribeiro didn't even get the same opportunities DD has had here, and he's always had good potential. Again not quite comparable.

Well again, that comes back to having subjective opinion as to how secondary assists are or aren't important. I know that I can pinpoint a guy that should have had a tertiary assist that was probalby more important than a primary one...so I do believe that some secondary assists were important in some occasions.

No arguments there, you can pinpoint anything when you speak of one single event.
You can also give an assist to every single player on the ice if you want to be technical because the way you position yourself is relevant to how opponents are coming at you. You can also had the goalie to that, if he makes a bad save which then leads to a Dman setting up a breakout that results in a goal after sustained offensive pressure, well without that saves there's no goal.
But again, points are being brought up by those who try to support the idea that he's playing well. He's not.

As far as numbers in the reg. season and playoffs, well like you said, you were tired of him since 4 seasons ago. Tell me that if he's shining bright this playoffs that it will change something. Like you just said....it's not 1 playoff that will change 4 years. While if it would be for some other guys, we would interpret it as the start of something great....it will never happen for DD. Would not have happen anyway based on the fact that for a majority of us anyway, he's too small to play the position. He would have had to be a St-Louis for him to be accepted. He clearly isn't.

I wasn't tired of him 4 seasons ago. I don't mind the guy. Four years ago RC decided that Cole-DD-Max had to be kept together even if it meant dropping down the standings to the lowest possible point, and leave our best center to play with scraps. That was Pejorative Slured.
Therrien was on AC back then and I remember him saying how you can't break up that line, so I was worried right away when he was hired. That's exactly what happened when he took over. Here we are still using DD with Patches. You're not talking about one season, or two. It's been 4 freaking years. Over that span, our best center, Plekanec was resorting to playing with rookies or scraps while getting some very tough minutes. Eller has been rendered almost entirely useless offensively after showing some good potential in the shortened season. We drafted arguably the best player and center of the draft 3 years ago, a big center with amazing offensive potential, and we're still using him as a winger.
So yes, as I said, people are damn right in being PO'd about it.

As for the POs, some were arguing that Price isn't PO proven, so it's not true that this is a treatment only reserved for DD.

 

[Rapala]

Good post LL and I can see you were paying attention...LOL

Max/Pleck is the soundest option we have as a first line.
They can play in any situation can burn over agressive offensive lines and also shut down...
The type of line Scotty would use and say to the adversary i'm not matching lines you deal with this...

I blasted Max early this year in his discussion thread for floating and blowing the zone on DD's line.
There is not one person who can come back to me and say I was wrong after his play with Plecky demonstrated how effective he can be without the puck for 200ft. The added bonus being he still is left with a sense of contribution even when Not scoring which is huge IMO.
He is at his best by far in that role as i speculated last year in the PO's (too bad it never happened)

 

[Monctonscout]

????
DD had a good try at a strong playoffs and was commended for his efforts that fell short in the physicality department. We can't afford to have our top playmakers constantly run off the puck.

Does any of this ring a bell?

If you think Desharnais is on the team for his physicality, I think you need an apt with your doctor.

He does get run off the puck at times, but so do some of the biggest players in the NHL, people here just want to hold it over Desharnais' head because they want to hate him.

It's pretty simple, Pacioretty-Desharnais had to carry Vanek plus had to do it against other team's best shutdown players. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out...it freed up players like Bourque-Eller. However, I wouldn't bet my house on Eller shooting at 21.7% in these playoffs.

 

[Monctonscout]

DDs compete level was there in the playoffs. Vanek was either injured or disinterested at times. I feel that Subban hit that sent him out for a bit did more damage than he let on.

I feel Max had a meh playoffs too but one of the things that annoyed me about that entire line was not that X player had a bad playoff or whatever. It happens. Vanek may have not had his best performance, same with max and DD. What gets to me is that not one of the players were able to carry the line. In the case of DD, the effort was there, he tried, he won some board battles but seeing Chara pin him against the boards was a recipe for disaster.

At the end of the day, DD is a complimentary player. He will do well in particular contexts but he doesn't have the skill or size to carry a line. In the playoffs, when a particular top talent isn't at his best, the other top talent may carry the line. Pacioretty has that ability(even if we didn't see it during the playoffs) but DD doesn't.

Some might argue that Galchenyuk has that ability or Plekanec...but neither do. In certain aspects, they are way more dangerous but Galchenyuk isn't a star either, not yet.

This is why I kind of prefer a Max-Plekanec duo because even if they aren't producing they are facing tough matchups and freeing up some softer minutes for less dominating players like DD who in a 2nd/3rd line role would be adequate.

Now, if DD fails to produce in 1st line, it doesn't necessarily mean he's a bad player(or course, if he does 0s across the board by the end, enough is enough) but he should only be on 1st line if he's producing. If he isn't, might as well put max-plek together and make life easier for others.

I'd also point out that Max this time last year wasn't as good as he is now. He's much more clutch, dominant and you see the signs of progression. I think he will kill it this year so not worried about him! Should be fun to watch.

I can live with Vanek not producing a ton...but I can't excuse being completely disinterested and not competing. He basically stayed clear of traffic. Maybe he was hurt, but usually that comes out after the playoffs are done...I know he got a ton of heat from "insiders" who usually know if guys are hurt.

In terms of the whole 1st line/2nd line thing, people need to stop with the labels.

If you have 67-51-Parenteau/Weise
27-14-11

You have 2 balanced lines that should be able to score and are still good defensively so you don't have to bend over backwards to match lines.

If you load up a line with Plekanec-pacioretty, then you end up matching them against top lines and suddenly they have a harder time scoring.

Nobody in their right mind would say Desharnais is the "#1 center" on the Habs...Plekanec is a better player and as a result he plays more minutes also, 2 minutes more per game than Desharnais, pretty typical from #1 to #2.


...but people prefer getting their panties in a bunch with the whole "#1 center" thing. Like Kane-Toews and some other teams, the top 2 forwards don't have to play on the same line.

 

[Kriss E]

...but people prefer getting their panties in a bunch with the whole "#1 center" thing. Like Kane-Toews and some other teams, the top 2 forwards don't have to play on the same line.

Toews plays with Hossa, and Chicago is a top 10 scoring team. Mtl is 23rd.

People were arguing the same about Markov-PK. Can't have them together I was told by some here, when I argued they should be together last year, because we need to spread the wealth through our defensive pairings.
You play your best players together. They will drive the team forward.

Having two average lines isn't better than having one really strong one.

 

[Doc McKenna]

If you think Desharnais is on the team for his physicality, I think you need an apt with your doctor.

He does get run off the puck at times, but so do some of the biggest players in the NHL, people here just want to hold it over Desharnais' head because they want to hate him.

It's pretty simple, Pacioretty-Desharnais had to carry Vanek plus had to do it against other team's best shutdown players. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out...it freed up players like Bourque-Eller. However, I wouldn't bet my house on Eller shooting at 21.7% in these playoffs.

So you again isnore the evidence. Vanek still had 25% more points than DD during the playoffs. So DD didn't carry f all

 

[Milhouse40]

So i guess all his apologist will continue to say....look how DD is producing!!
Again tonight with ANOTHER useless point provided by the great players who's doing all the work. Seriously, it's unbelievable to see him getting so many points like that lately.

 

[Natey]

So i guess all his apologist will continue to say....look how DD is producing!!
Again tonight with ANOTHER useless point provided by the great players who's doing all the work. Seriously, it's unbelievable to see him getting so many points like that lately.

And he should have got a point on that Markov pass. Who cares?

So pathetic how people get mad when he gets a point. It's ****ing disgusting, actually.

 

[Natey]

Toews plays with Hossa, and Chicago is a top 10 scoring team. Mtl is 23rd.

People were arguing the same about Markov-PK. Can't have them together I was told by some here, when I argued they should be together last year, because we need to spread the wealth through our defensive pairings.
You play your best players together. They will drive the team forward.

Having two average lines isn't better than having one really strong one.

Sure... except Pacioretty really is a do it himself player.. so Galchenyuk and Plekanec should be an above average line anyway.

 

[Doc McKenna]

And he should have got a point on that Markov pass. Who cares?

So pathetic how people get mad when he gets a point. It's ****ing disgusting, actually.

Almost as much as his play when on the top line. Not sure why he seems to just float as soon as he gets close to perimeter patches, but the whole line hinges on the opposite winger digging and passes to the point. Horribly predictable .

 

[Natey]

Almost as much as his play when on the top line. Not sure why he seems to just float as soon as he gets close to perimeter patches, but the whole line hinges on the opposite winger digging and passes to the point. Horribly predictable .

Glad it's predictable because apparently teams can't stop it.

 

[Milhouse40]

And he should have got a point on that Markov pass. Who cares?

So pathetic how people get mad when he gets a point. It's ****ing disgusting, actually.

Tell me what was the last point DD got who's not entirely on the back of linesmates.
Yeah i know...it's disgusting...just like regurgitating his numbers of points he got as a proof of his offensive skills.

If people could look more at how and who's responsible for his points...i wouldn't have to do it.

 

[Monctonscout]

So you again isnore the evidence. Vanek still had 25% more points than DD during the playoffs. So DD didn't carry f all

Having points means ****all if somebody else does all the work and you just get open and shoot. If you think vanek gave anything close to an effort, you obviously slept through the playoffs.

 

[Monctonscout]

Sure... except Pacioretty really is a do it himself player.. so Galchenyuk and Plekanec should be an above average line anyway.

If that was the case why not play him with Bournival and Prust?

It's BS. He'll score 6-8 goals by himself, by creating a turnover and scoring, but most goals he needs help...tonight were nice shots, but both were nice set ups. You also need zone entries to get to a point where you can score. Desharnais scores 15-16 goals a year and he's scored a few all by himself(2-3 per year) and he's nowhere near the scorer Max is.

Purely interms of offensive skill, Pacioretty is a notch above the rest of the forwards, doesn't mean he doesn't need help to score.

 

[Beige Van]

Eller played very well in the playoffs, but you have to keep stuff like that in context. He and Bourque were shooting the puck and everything was going in. Doesn't magically make them "playoff warriors". It doesn't change the fact that if he was a #2 center this year and last we probably don't even make the playoffs. It's comical that people pull out this "the only time that counts" BS about the playoffs...if you don't get there then it doesn't count anyways...

Desharnais had strong playoffs but he spent most of it having to carry a guy like Vanek who refused to compete for anything. Pacioretty's numbers were also well down...why do you think that is? I guess it's Desharnais' fault that Vanek didn't care and mailed it in??

Even with a wretched playoffs, Vanek had more points than DD. Patches too. So how does <0.50 ppg for a 1st line center a strong playoffs?

 

[Rapala]

If you think Desharnais is on the team for his physicality, I think you need an apt with your doctor.

He does get run off the puck at times, but so do some of the biggest players in the NHL, people here just want to hold it over Desharnais' head because they want to hate him.

It's pretty simple, Pacioretty-Desharnais had to carry Vanek plus had to do it against other team's best shutdown players. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out...it freed up players like Bourque-Eller. However, I wouldn't bet my house on Eller shooting at 21.7% in these playoffs.

MS
You have always been the one who needs special care.
Where in my post do I say that.
What I did clearly say is we can't afford to have our top play maker run off the puck.
This is a certainty again this year when the whistles get put away.
I'm one who has always felt DD should not be on this team so you are very wide of your mark.

 

[sharks9]

So i guess all his apologist will continue to say....look how DD is producing!!
Again tonight with ANOTHER useless point provided by the great players who's doing all the work. Seriously, it's unbelievable to see him getting so many points like that lately.

Winning a faceoff to create an offensive opportunity is useless in your opinion?

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Winning a faceoff to create an offensive opportunity is useless in your opinion?

If that's basically all you achieve with 20 minutes of ice time, it's pretty close.