He got 1:09 PP TOI. How is this ridiculous? Andrighetto got 1:08 as a comparison and he's a 3 game NHL vet.
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He got 1:09 PP TOI. How is this ridiculous? Andrighetto got 1:08 as a comparison and he's a 3 game NHL vet.
...he was still tied for 4th on the team amung forwards in PP time...Pleks got 4 seconds, as did Sekac...all night, 3 PPs and Pleks & Sekac, who scored twice including a PP goal, got 4 freakin' seconds in order to get Davey's line some PP time...explain that...sorry, nevermind, noone can...except Therrien...
...Ghetto got what Davey & PA got because Therrien decided to put them together and can't compute making in-game adjustments...again, Therrien...
habfaninvictoria
Registered User
DD on the 3rd line is fine. He shouldn't be expected to be anything more. The issue was and always had been that he seemingly couldn't be separated from Patches. Galchenyuk needs to move up to the top line role sooner than later. Too often against teams like LA DD would disappear. It's a big difference playing 10 minutes a game versus 15 plus on the top line. DD will likely put up similar points as the 3rd line C simply because it makes us deeper and less predictable. We got lucky yesterday.
But there's very little discussion about his ice time.
Look, let's look at the facts a bit. Not long ago DD and Plekanec were getting equal TOI at ES and DD getting 25-30 sec more per game than Plekanec on PP.
In last 2 games combined:
DD
4:03 PP
0:00 SH
22:58 ES
Plek
2:14 PP
5:37 SH
26:18 ES
Galch
6:39 PP
0:00 SH
28:37 ES
The reality is AG took much of Plekanec's PP time and in addition Plekanec was heavily used on SH.
DD used to have slightly over 14:49 ES TOI/GP. It's decreased by over 3 minutes.
As for PP, last 2 games combined the following forwards have more PP time:
Galchenyuk
Gallagher
Pacioretty
Parenteau
with Andrighetto 19 sec less combined over 2 games. So 9.5 sec less per game...
When Eller returns we'll see extra support on the PK and we'll see what happens with the PP. I'm not particularly concerned about Plekanec's TOI just yet, we don't have a full line up.
As for our new top line suffering. Galchenyuk got 3:20 per game PP...Max had 3:27/GP and Gallagher had 3:18/GP. I think you're making this out to be worse than it really is on the short term.
But there's very little discussion about his ice time.
Look, let's look at the facts a bit. Not long ago DD and Plekanec were getting equal TOI at ES and DD getting 25-30 sec more per game than Plekanec on PP.
In last 2 games combined:
DD
4:03 PP
0:00 SH
22:58 ES
Plek
2:14 PP
5:37 SH
26:18 ES
Galch
6:39 PP
0:00 SH
28:37 ES
The reality is AG took much of Plekanec's PP time and in addition Plekanec was heavily used on SH.
DD used to have slightly over 14:49 ES TOI/GP. It's decreased by over 3 minutes.
As for PP, last 2 games combined the following forwards have more PP time:
Galchenyuk
Gallagher
Pacioretty
Parenteau
with Andrighetto 19 sec less combined over 2 games. So 9.5 sec less per game...
When Eller returns we'll see extra support on the PK and we'll see what happens with the PP. I'm not particularly concerned about Plekanec's TOI just yet, we don't have a full line up.
As for our new top line suffering. Galchenyuk got 3:20 per game PP...Max had 3:27/GP and Gallagher had 3:18/GP. I think you're making this out to be worse than it really is on the short term.
...in both games since Chucky took over as #1C, he's had to play against the other team's Top Line or #2 Line consistently, even though we were at home on both occassions, because the "sheltered" time went...well, we all know where...one of the best things about being at home is Last Change, getting the favorable line out there...every team takes advantage of it...we used to when Davey centered the #1 line...I guess there was just a change in philosophy, right??...
...in both games since Chucky took over as #1C, he's had to play against the other team's Top Line or #2 Line consistently, even though we were at home on both occassions, because the "sheltered" time went...well, we all know where...one of the best things about being at home is Last Change, getting the favorable line out there...every team takes advantage of it...we used to when Davey centered the #1 line...I guess there was just a change in philosophy, right??...
Prove that Chucky was facing their top lines while DD was getting sheltered minutes.
Chucky's line was getting all the offensive zone starts last night that people complain about with DD.
...O-zone starts and "sheltered" starts are two very different things...again, look it up...
...in both games since Chucky took over as #1C, he's had to play against the other team's Top Line or #2 Line consistently, even though we were at home on both occassions, because the "sheltered" time went...well, we all know where...one of the best things about being at home is Last Change, getting the favorable line out there...every team takes advantage of it...we used to when Davey centered the #1 line...I guess there was just a change in philosophy, right??...
Well, that's what I said though no? When Eller comes back we'll have another defensively capable forward to use to balance things out.
In any case, I'm pretty sure people didn't like Max in an exploitation role. They said "he's a puck possession beast, he doesn't need to play sheltered minutes". Then...he played less sheltered minutes and people are unhappy.
It's hard to please everybody and it's pretty amusing to watch. Either way, Eller will be back so some of those difficult minutes will be taken and the pressure will be removed.
FWIW, I've openly said we should have a line-up with DD and Galchenyuk together on same line getting exploitation minutes. I don't care who is the center. People were not pleased and said "Galchenyuk should be with pacioretty and pacioretty can handle tough minutes".
Don't look at me on this one...
ECWHSWI
TOUGHEN UP.
- Oct 27, 2006
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Well, that's what I said though no? When Eller comes back we'll have another defensively capable forward to use to balance things out.
In any case, I'm pretty sure people didn't like Max in an exploitation role. They said "he's a puck possession beast, he doesn't need to play sheltered minutes". Then...he played less sheltered minutes and people are unhappy.
It's hard to please everybody and it's pretty amusing to watch. Either way, Eller will be back so some of those difficult minutes will be taken and the pressure will be removed.
FWIW, I've openly said we should have a line-up with DD and Galchenyuk together on same line getting exploitation minutes. I don't care who is the center. People were not pleased and said "Galchenyuk should be with pacioretty and pacioretty can handle tough minutes".
Don't look at me on this one...
it's actually damn simple, given that it was a new role and new linemates for Galchenyuk, giving him sheltered for a while was expected, because he's just starting up in this role AND because the previous #1C did have said sheltering...
#1 C : sheltered
#1 C is moved to the 3rd line
new sheltered line ? the 3rd line
Well, that's what I said though no? When Eller comes back we'll have another defensively capable forward to use to balance things out.
In any case, I'm pretty sure people didn't like Max in an exploitation role. They said "he's a puck possession beast, he doesn't need to play sheltered minutes". Then...he played less sheltered minutes and people are unhappy.
It's hard to please everybody and it's pretty amusing to watch. Either way, Eller will be back so some of those difficult minutes will be taken and the pressure will be removed.
FWIW, I've openly said we should have a line-up with DD and Galchenyuk together on same line getting exploitation minutes. I don't care who is the center. People were not pleased and said "Galchenyuk should be with pacioretty and pacioretty can handle tough minutes".
Don't look at me on this one...
...I'm not "blaming" anyone here, amigo; I'm just pointing out that Desharnais being our 3rd line centre instead of our 1st line centre is still a problem, just not as big of one...he needs sheltering to be effective, only now we're sheltering our 3rd line players instead of our Top Line players...Chucky's our #1 now, DD isn't taking Pleks job, he shouldn't take Larry's job, and he can't take Manny's job...so where do we go from here??...DD at wing??...can he be effective there without sheltering??...
We're missing Eller though, who took on difficult matchups as a checking line center.
Why would you believe that with our checking line center gone we'd be able to ice a defensively aware line with PAP and DD on it?
If we wanted Galchenyuk to get sheltered minutes on C with Eller gone, it would've been better if he was with PAP and pacioretty and Gallagher were with DD in the short term to counterbalance.
Who knows but you're blaming MT but he's given the people what they asked for.
The only issue is people won't admit their logic was flawed.
Plekanec should be with max, eller should be 3rd line checker and 2nd line should be sheltered with galchenyuk on it. If DD is on it as a winger, center or benched is irrelevant to this fact. I've said it for a while but people insisted on putting galchenyuk as #1C. Success I guess?
I can only hope when Eller returns they do it the way I'm suggesting.
ECWHSWI
TOUGHEN UP.
- Oct 27, 2006
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so, what you're saying basically is there's always a good reason for DD to be the one given sheltered minutes.
if there's one thing though, and I suspect you dont realize it, you're pretty much saying there's no room for DD on our top 9 once Eller is back...
ECWHSWI
TOUGHEN UP.
- Oct 27, 2006
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Who knows but you're blaming MT but he's given the people what they asked for.
The only issue is people won't admit their logic was flawed.
Plekanec should be with max, eller should be 3rd line checker and 2nd line should be sheltered with galchenyuk on it. If DD is on it as a winger, center or benched is irrelevant to this fact. I've said it for a while but people insisted on putting galchenyuk as #1C. Success I guess?
I can only hope when Eller returns they do it the way I'm suggesting.
fans wanting the most talented forward on the 1st line, how could they... ??
I'm open to whatever makes the team better. I've mentioned several times having DD and Galch on same line. I've mentioned last year having DD on Eller's wing, etc...
I've seen many roles for DD. I believe most here have 1 role: off the team.
If it comes to that, I'm okay with it. It's DD, not PK subban.
Who knows but you're blaming MT but he's given the people what they asked for.
The only issue is people won't admit their logic was flawed.
Plekanec should be with max, eller should be 3rd line checker and 2nd line should be sheltered with galchenyuk on it. If DD is on it as a winger, center or benched is irrelevant to this fact. I've said it for a while but people insisted on putting galchenyuk as #1C. Success I guess?
I can only hope when Eller returns they do it the way I'm suggesting.
...but Galchenyuk is the more dynamic player and he is going to be our #1 centre; why play him with anything but our best wingers if we want that to succeed??...Pleks is great as our #2 centre, always has been, but he's not a #1C...Chucky doesn't need to be totally "sheltered", he just needs Therrien to learn to take advantage of favorable starts/matchups when the time comes...that's what #1 lines do...
fans wanting the most talented forward on the 1st line, how could they... ??
Plekanec is better than Galchenyuk right now though.
Galchenyuk isn't a #1C either. We have no #1C. Plekanec is the better center as of now.
Again, the minutes will be balanced when Eller returns. You're going in extremes immediately when there's no reason to.
They will get more favourable minutes. The 3:30 PP per game is a reflection of that.
ECWHSWI
TOUGHEN UP.
- Oct 27, 2006
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he's the future of the Habs at forward... guys like DD and Plekanec are veterans, old enough to know their game will not change much over the next few months/years, at best it will not decrease too fast...
I see it this way:
"Pacioretty can and should play tougher minutes" is one argument.
"Galchenyuk should get sheltered minutes" is another.
Both are fine but IF people want both, you'd have to separate the two. If you're okay with one of the two not being met, that's okay too. It just depends what people want.
...Chucky doesn't need "sheltering", he needs the coach to take advantage of optimal starts/matchups when possible; he can still get the job done in defensive matchups/starts/etc...the issue lies in that, if we're still going to "shelter" the DD-centred line, then Chucky's line isn't going to get near those optimal starts/matchups because the focus will be on making sure DD's line gets them + no/very limited defensive starts, etc...the Habs are best when no line requires "sheltering"...
Really? That was pretty much the discussion on twitter last night. Some people brought it up in the PGT too.
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