David Desharnais (Part 5.7)

[Deluded Puck]

Simple Question: Would Desharnais be a 1st line center on any other NHL playoff/bubble team?

 

[JLP]

Doesn't take Kahunas. It takes assurance that you have somebody READY to take his place. Clearly, they don't think the world out of Eller. And feel that Galchy isn,t ready. Unless Paul Stastny or whoever comes back, a proven centerman, DD will not move.

Yes of course. This is what we all (well, a lot of us anyhow) want.
There are just some who question doing that RIGHT NOW.

Re the "Galchenyuk is not ready" argument. From what I see Galchenyuk is better than DD now, will likely be even better in a physical playoff series, and is our future. So I see advantages short-, mid- and long-term to having him step up to the role now.

Also I'd support the idea that Galchenyuk still has a lot to learn if the team had a better mentor for him up there now. I don't want Galchenyuk watching DD and thinking "so that's what the team wants from its top centre, soft perimeter play with easy minutes" lol

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

DD had the highest +- on the team during last year's playoffs. He was on for 1 GA the entire series.

Blaming him for lack of playoff success seems misguided.

And yet he played like ****. He is here to generate offense. Did he generate any? When he can't generate offense he is utterly useless.

 

[Whitesnake]

Re the "Galchenyuk is not ready" argument. From what I see Galchenyuk is better than DD now, will likely be even better in a physical playoff series, and is our future. So I see advantages short-, mid- and long-term to having him step up to the role now.

Also I'd support the idea that Galchenyuk still has a lot to learn if the team had a better mentor for him up there now. I don't want Galchenyuk watching DD and thinking "so that's what the team wants from its top centre, soft perimeter play with easy minutes" lol

You watch Galchenyuk play defensively, and sometimes when he conducts himself like the centerman on his line and he makes a bad read or just a bad defensive play. He's not ready to be top 6 on C. 'Cause top 6 on C means having to be productive and face a top line from the opponent. Somehow, those "sheltered" minutes from DD only means that he's getting the majority of his faceoffs in the offensive zone. 'Cause often, his line, especially away, will be getting a top line to play against and yet do well despite being seen as incredibly awful and all. It's not like he's +15 at home ice and -15 away. And he produces on away ice as much as he can. It's not like Therrien takes this line out everytime the opponent sends a top line. He doesn't do that. So Galchenyuk will need to face all this right now....change position in the toughest stretch of the year.....I mean, who did that? Which team has ever took a top 6 guy who is producing and just replace him with a great prospect right in the middle of the year in a position that he didn't play since the start of the year?

 

[LyricalLyricist]

And yet he played like ****. He is here to generate offense. Did he generate any? When he can't generate offense he is utterly useless.

If he had 6 points and -10 would that be better?

 

[JLP]

You watch Galchenyuk play defensively, and sometimes when he conducts himself like the centerman on his line and he makes a bad read or just a bad defensive play. He's not ready to be top 6 on C. 'Cause top 6 on C means having to be productive and face a top line from the opponent. Somehow, those "sheltered" minutes from DD only means that he's getting the majority of his faceoffs in the offensive zone. 'Cause often, his line, especially away, will be getting a top line to play against and yet do well despite being seen as incredibly awful and all. It's not like he's +15 at home ice and -15 away. And he produces on away ice as much as he can. It's not like Therrien takes this line out everytime the opponent sends a top line. He doesn't do that. So Galchenyuk will need to face all this right now....change position in the toughest stretch of the year.....I mean, who did that? Which team has ever took a top 6 guy who is producing and just replace him with a great prospect right in the middle of the year in a position that he didn't play since the start of the year?

Re Gal's defensive abilities, do you really think DD does any better? We're lucky to have Plex as our 1bC. Yes it would be a bold move to promote Gal now but it would pay off IMHO, and almost immediately as it would really go a long way to beefing up our smurfy top six. I guess I'm another one of those Habs fans who figures that with DD as our 1aC we are going nowhere in the playoffs.

Simple Question: Would Desharnais be a 1st line center on any other NHL playoff/bubble team?

Simple answer: No.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Yeah I don't buy this reasoning sorry. Different centers play different roles in a good lineup. IMHO Galchenyuk is ready for an increased role at C. DD can really only play one role he does not have the skills or size to move down and fill the third-line centre role, or any other centre role for that matter.



Those playoffs did not work out so well for the Habs...



You can trade if it gives the opportunity to promote Galchenyuk to the top-minutes C spot. Plus DD had "zero" value earlier in the season so we should be glad if he could fetch some assets now.

Eller has sucked even defensely of late. So there would be an exception.

As for 2nd point, was dd only one who played because others were producing nothing on other lines and on for a plethora of goals against yet not one word about them.

 

[theboss*]

Habs will never win anything with dd in this lineup, even if he was a healthy scratch 13th forward

 

[JLP]

Eller has sucked even defensely of late. So there would be an exception.

As for 2nd point, was dd only one who played because others were producing nothing on other lines and on for a plethora of goals against yet not one word about them.

Yeah like I said earlier if our centres were:
Galchenyuk
Plekanec
Eller
White
...then Eller is the one I have the least confidence in at the moment, but I still have hope for him to improve given regular linemates. Seems unlikely he's ever going to be our #1C though. Galchenyuk has better tools for that role. So I don't see this production problem as a DD vs Eller thing.

 

[Whitesnake]

Re Gal's defensive abilities, do you really think DD does any better? We're lucky to have Plex as our 1bC. Yes it would be a bold move to promote Gal now but it would pay off IMHO, and almost immediately as it would really go a long way to beefing up our smurfy top six. I guess I'm another one of those Habs fans who figures that with DD as our 1aC we are going nowhere in the playoffs.

Yes he is better. He's not a king. Will never win the Selke. But he anticipates the play better, have some very good backchecking. What he fails in being powerful, he succeeds in being intelligent. He is perfect? Far from it, last time I checked...that team was average so he's not perfect. But he is better now. In the training camp...do whatever you want with him. But right now, DD is better at C than Galchy. Don't worry though...with Galchy right now on C, we wouldn't be getting anywhere as well. It takes more than that for this team to be great. Unless the Eastern Conference sucks even more during the playoffs. And if Price is miraculous. Which is our only chance.

It wouldn,t be hard to regroup the EGG line and pair Bourque with Pac and DD though. Wouldn't be hard except when the coach is Therrien.

 

[JLP]

Yes he is better. He's not a king. Will never win the Selke. But he anticipates the play better, have some very good backchecking. What he fails in being powerful, he succeeds in being intelligent. He is perfect? Far from it, last time I checked...that team was average so he's not perfect. But he is better now. In the training camp...do whatever you want with him. But right now, DD is better at C than Galchy. Don't worry though...with Galchy right now on C, we wouldn't be getting anywhere as well. It takes more than that for this team to be great. Unless the Eastern Conference sucks even more during the playoffs. And if Price is miraculous. Which is our only chance.

It wouldn,t be hard to regroup the EGG line and pair Bourque with Pac and DD though. Wouldn't be hard except when the coach is Therrien.

I wouldn't say the team is "average" I think we have an above-average players for example the third-most Olympians of any NHL team, the reigning Norris trophy winner and arguably the best goalie in the world. Plus a 2013 Calder candidate and a top-ten goalscorer, one of the best defensive centres in the league, and of course Galchenyuk.

We can agree to disagree on DD, I see poor production and I blame our 1aC for that because he's weak in every aspect of the game except for passing.

Anyway on Therrien, seems we both think he's a knucklehead so there's some common ground.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

If he had 6 points and -10 would that be better?

No. Is this a way of you telling me he has been effective in the playoffs?

 

[Milhouse40]

Your goldenboy Eller will be traded away before David.

Probably, but that's not because DD is so much better....it's because teams are looking for players like Eller and tried to get rid of player like DD.

Um...You mean the first 19 games of this year before MT butchered the EGG line? If so...yeah, I suppose you can technically call that a winning record...but 10 wins and 9 loses aren't all that impressive...
And I understand that you hate DD and want to dump him with all your might but are you really ready to throw Galchy under the bus and make him the defacto #1 C? Playing wing and doing well is totally different than playing #1C. Whatever happened to developing him instead of just throwing him in?

Well, i'm way into putting Galchenyuk at center, in sheltered games situations, tons of PP, all the 4-on-4 (cause DD barely play more than Eller at 5 on 5).....Personnally, i think we are throwing Galchenyuk under the bus with Plekanec, cause he's the one facing the Kessle, Crosby, Toews and cie nights in, nights out.

What's more dangerous for Galchenyuk?
Playing HIS position in a highly exploitation role
Or playing him off-position against the best players in the league?

And by the way, since that big stretch in november, the Habs are 14-12-4, not really any better than when the EGG line was taking care of business.

BUT, the EGG line played when Pacioretty, Briere, Prust, Emelin, Murray and Prust were out with injuries, while DD's line got a almost a full line-up excpet for Galchy and Boureque for a couple of game.

DD has played significantly better than Eller in the last stretch. At this point IF galchenyuk were forced into center it would be at Eller's expense, not DDs.

That's why Galchenyuk will stay a winger because he's a better winger than Eller is.

Of course, Galchenyuk will play with Weise and Bourque and take all the defensive missions, defensive start and tough match-up and no powerplay that Eller is taking....this is how we're gonna build offensive confidence in the kid

This is how you bring a Eller into the NHL...not a Galchenyuk

The Day Galchenyuk will take center, you'll have to give him at least one good wingers and PP time.....and so far , DD's got both of them....he will have to let at least one winger go and share his PP time...and then, DD might turned back at what we saw from him last year...

DD had the highest +- on the team during last year's playoffs. He was on for 1 GA the entire series.

Blaming him for lack of playoff success seems misguided.

Let's blame Price instead....come on, he got his ass handed back to him by ****ing Turris....what will he do when he'll get real tough match-up.

He got top PP time (and did nothing), he got the best offensive ice-time available (And didn't brought any offensive), he got the best wingers available and created next to nothing.

If i want a defensive players, i wouldn't choose DD for sure...

 

[sventington]

Habs will never win anything with dd in this lineup, even if he was a healthy scratch 13th forward

it really does seem like that is the attitude around here at times.

 

[Whitesnake]

I wouldn't say the team is "average" I think we have an above-average players for example the third-most Olympians of any NHL team, the reigning Norris trophy winner and arguably the best goalie in the world. Plus a 2013 Calder candidate and a top-ten goalscorer, one of the best defensive centres in the league, and of course Galchenyuk.

Anyway on Therrien, seems we both think he's a knucklehead so there's some common ground.

We have a good base. But we're lacking so many other things that eventually makes that team average. And yes, we agree on Therrien.

 

[Natey]

We can agree to disagree on DD, I see poor production and I blame our 1aC for that because he's weak in every aspect of the game except for passing.

If you see poor production that last 2/3 of the season it's because you blindly hate the guy. I have no issue if you want to improve upon Desharnais with a better player nor if you think trading him for another piece is a smart move. Saying you see poor production is laughable right now.

33 points in his last 39 games. 4 shootout goals and +5 rating over that same span. Over the same span, Pacioretty has 35 points in 40 games, 0 shootout goals, and a +5 rating with more ice-time.

I'm not saying Desharnais is better by Pacioretty by that statement, so don't put words in my mouth. But poor production? Really?

 

[Habsoil]

DD had the highest +- on the team during last year's playoffs. He was on for 1 GA the entire series.

Blaming him for lack of playoff success seems misguided.

Every time a senator looked in his direction, he would fall on his arse!
Do you honestly think he helped us?

 

[JLP]

If you see poor production that last 2/3 of the season it's because you blindly hate the guy. I have no issue if you want to improve upon Desharnais with a better player nor if you think trading him for another piece is a smart move. Saying you see poor production is laughable right now.

33 points in his last 39 games. 4 shootout goals and +5 rating over that same span. Over the same span, Pacioretty has 35 points in 40 games, 0 shootout goals, and a +5 rating with more ice-time.

I'm not saying Desharnais is better by Pacioretty by that statement, so don't put words in my mouth. But poor production? Really?

Yeah poor team production is what I see, we are not scoring enough goals and we're mostly relying on Price to win.

 

[Habaddict]

Doesn't take Kahunas. It takes assurance that you have somebody READY to take his place. Clearly, they don't think the world out of Eller. And feel that Galchy isn,t ready. Unless Paul Stastny or whoever comes back, a proven centerman, DD will not move.

I mean, you have to be consequent here. If the team decides and thinks that they have what it takes to challenge any team in the playoffs, there won't be a DD for pucks type of trades even if tons of people here would like it. If we would have sell the team Buffalo style....but then yes, DD might be traded. But that's not where they are going. I'm just stunned that from people who know hockey that are still suggesting, to this day, to just get rid of him, and just put Galchy there....just like that, in February....not having played centerman. Yet, people keep saying, so shelter him and give him the easy minutes....Fine...who gets the hard minutes? Pleks? But isn't there tons of complaints how about Pleks is always the unlucky here? Why is it suddenly not that big of a deal? At the expense of the Galchy progression? Still, no matter the reason he still will get the hard minutes. And who helps him? Eller? Right now with that state of mind and based on how he's competing right now? Again, if you just don,t care about making the playoffs, fine, let's do it. If you care and still suggest that.....how is that really wise?

Exactly.
DD is contributing right now in the role he has been given. The natural thing
to do is to continue doing what works until there is a good reason to change.

If Galchenyuk comes out next year, and shows he is ready to be 1st line center,
then is the time to trade DD. We have to hope he continues to play like he is
now, both for what he brings on a nightly basis, and to improve his trade value.
The longer he plays effectively, the less his past bad streaks will impact
whatever value he has.

Of course,if you acquire another center who is better in that role, that is
a good reason to make a change. Or the unlikely event that another team
decides DD is exactly what they need, and is willing to give something
substantial.
In the mean time, DD has come from un-drafted and starting in the ECHL,
to playing effectively in the NHL, in spite of whatever limitations people
think he has. I find that respect worthy. And I really don't get it when
others don't.

 

[LeMAD]

Habs will never win anything with dd in this lineup, even if he was a healthy scratch 13th forward

You mean we'll never win anything as long as Desharnais is our 3rd best forward.

Our first line is pretty weak compared to the rest of the league, and Plekanec has to be the 2nd and 3rd line by himself.

If Galchenyuk comes out next year, and shows he is ready to be 1st line center,
then is the time to trade DD.

Desharnais would be much more valuable as a third line center than what we could get for him. If Galchenyuk does break out next year (doubtful), we would still be better off using three balanced lines then having a useless third line like this year.

But I really don't see the urge of playing Galchenyuk as center. Especially since he's pretty weak defensively.

 

[Habaddict]

You mean we'll never win anything as long as Desharnais is our 3rd best forward.

Our first line is pretty weak compared to the rest of the league, and Plekanec has to be the 2nd and 3rd line by himself.

Eller may be struggling some lately, but he is still an adaquate 3rd center.
And if Galchenyuk continues to play on Plekanec's line, his wingers suddenly
look a lot better. So I wouldn't worry that he's by himself.

And I don't think that Desharnais is our third best forward now. There is
MaxPac, Plekanec, and B.Gally ahead of him. And Galchenyuk could make
nonsense of those rankings sooner, rather than later. DD is however, contributing
in his role. He is not part of the problem.

 

[ZUKI]

Yeah poor team production is what I see, we are not scoring enough goals and we're mostly relying on Price to win.

He 's our best player . All the teams are mostly relying on their best player to win

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Yeah like I said earlier if our centres were:
Galchenyuk
Plekanec
Eller
White
...then Eller is the one I have the least confidence in at the moment, but I still have hope for him to improve given regular linemates. Seems unlikely he's ever going to be our #1C though. Galchenyuk has better tools for that role. So I don't see this production problem as a DD vs Eller thing.

I agree with you on many counts. I'm just saying at this very moment an exception would be made as DD is playing significantly better. In general however, Eller is a better fit for the 3rd line role, no question.

No. Is this a way of you telling me he has been effective in the playoffs?

It's my way of telling you he's not the reason we lost. No one generated offense. Based on last year's performance, would you trade pacioretty? How about guys who were -7 or something?

Can we upgrade DD? Yes, of course. Just pinning the blame on him for the team failing is misguided.

Of course, Galchenyuk will play with Weise and Bourque and take all the defensive missions, defensive start and tough match-up and no powerplay that Eller is taking....this is how we're gonna build offensive confidence in the kid

This is how you bring a Eller into the NHL...not a Galchenyuk

The Day Galchenyuk will take center, you'll have to give him at least one good wingers and PP time.....and so far , DD's got both of them....he will have to let at least one winger go and share his PP time...and then, DD might turned back at what we saw from him last year...

I'm not sure where you're going with this. You're just ranting about stuff that never happened and will never happen.

Let's blame Price instead....come on, he got his ass handed back to him by ****ing Turris....what will he do when he'll get real tough match-up.

He got top PP time (and did nothing), he got the best offensive ice-time available (And didn't brought any offensive), he got the best wingers available and created next to nothing.

If i want a defensive players, i wouldn't choose DD for sure...

Let me understand something.

Eller, who apparently only plays super tough defensive assignments so DD can play easy minutes gets injured. When he's injured these defensive assignments suddenly disappear and DD still gets pure offensive ice time. THE BEST ice time. What magic dust are you breathing? Think about it. If the minutes suddenly vanish where Eller isn't playing, why do we even need Eller then? OR maybe, just maybe DD got some of those minutes, if not a lot of them?

Every time a senator looked in his direction, he would fall on his arse!
Do you honestly think he helped us?

Like I said, he wasn't the weakest link by any means. Busting about a single guy is all fine and dandy but suppose MT benches DD for the playoffs, do we win the cup? Will you bet on it? Probably not. Reason being people are falsely accusing him for being the sole reason the team succeeds or fails.

When this undersized player was on the ice, the senators barely scored all series. 1 GA. Just 1. We lost by blow outs and he was on for 1 GA. Now tell me why he's the issue?

 

[DAChampion]

DD's ostensible lack of effectiveness in the playoffs is based on a small sample size and is thus not meaningful.

I'm not a fan of DD, but I think people need to lose the logical fallacy that the playoffs are a completely different sport. There are some differences in that you can no longer accumulate points beating up on terrible teams, but that applies to all players not just DD. In truth, I think that the best predictor of playoff success is regular season success.

 

[Aznrx8]

Problem with DD is he pass up too many opportunity to shoot at the net than lose the puck trying to make a pass