David Desharnais (Part 5.7)

[ak90210]

I'd love to see how many of his points come on plays where he doesn't make any real contribution to the play.

 

[DAChampion]

I'd love to see how many of his points come on plays where he doesn't make any real contribution to the play.

You can say that about any player. Not all points are earned.

Problem with DD is he pass up too many opportunity to shoot at the net than lose the puck trying to make a pass

This is probably part of why Desharnais can maintain a very high shot percentage. 14.5%, 16.3%, 15.2%, 15.3% over the past four seasons, way at the tail end of the distribution. He is clearly very selective with his shooting. Over time, we'd want him to be a little less selective, but it's not something that is impossible for him to improve.

He now has 45 goals in his last 230 games, an average of 16 goals per 82 games. It's something I'd hope he thinks about in the off-season.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

You can say that about any player. Not all points are earned.


This is probably part of why Desharnais can maintain a very high shot percentage. 14.5%, 16.3%, 15.2%, 15.3% over the past four seasons, way at the tail end of the distribution. He is clearly very selective with his shooting. Over time, we'd want him to be a little less selective, but it's not something that is impossible for him to improve.

He now has 45 goals in his last 230 games, an average of 16 goals per 82 games. It's something I'd hope he thinks about in the off-season.

I've been watching him play since 07-08 and he's always been more than a bit frustrating with respect to his reluctance to shoot.

He averaged about 30 goals per 82 games in the minors. I'd think that his NHL upside is no more than the low 20s.

With Pacioretty on his line, there's a very low probability of DD materially increasing his shot taking. He's an Adam Oates-type who thinks pass first, thinks pass second and shoots only if he must. It's not that unsound a philosophy with a sniper like Pacioretty and a gun like Subban on the ice, but I still think that DDs overall production would benefit if he'd shoot the puck at least 20 per cent more often. I just don't see this happening as he's 27 years old and it's unlikely that he's going to tinker with the style of play which has brought him this far.

 

[DAChampion]

I've been watching him play since 07-08 and he's always been more than a bit frustrating with respect to his reluctance to shoot.

He averaged about 30 goals per 82 games in the minors. I'd think that his NHL upside is no more than the low 20s.

With Pacioretty on his line, there's a very low probability of DD materially increasing his shot taking. He's an Adam Oates-type who thinks pass first, thinks pass second and shoots only if he must. It's not that unsound a philosophy with a sniper like Pacioretty and a gun like Subban on the ice, but I still think that DDs overall production would benefit if he'd shoot the puck at least 20 per cent more often. I just don't see this happening as he's 27 years old and it's unlikely that he's going to tinker with the style of play which has brought him this far.

There was a time when I saw Pacioretty referred to as Pass-oretty. He has good playmaking skills. It's not that he has godly vision, but he has adequate vision.

DD and MP may have settled into a "DD passes, MP shoots" equilibrium, but line combinations don't last forever as players evolve with time, get injured, the league adapts, or the rest of the roster changes... see Koivu-Higgins-Ryder and Plekanec-Kostitsyn-Kovalev. In the long term either one of them could get injured, Galchenyuk could claim more ice time, or the underlying mechanics on the ice could change as they spend more time with Nathan Beaulieu feeding them pucks in the future.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

There was a time when I saw Pacioretty referred to as Pass-oretty. He has good playmaking skills. It's not that he has godly vision, but he has adequate vision.

DD and MP may have settled into a "DD passes, MP shoots" equilibrium, but line combinations don't last forever as players evolve with time, get injured, the league adapts, or the rest of the roster changes... see Koivu-Higgins-Ryder and Plekanec-Kostitsyn-Kovalev. In the long term either one of them could get injured, Galchenyuk could claim more ice time, or the underlying mechanics on the ice could change as they spend more time with Nathan Beaulieu feeding them pucks in the future.

It is certainly likely that Desharnais will be with different linemates at some point in the next year or so. I still would lean toward believing that his basic style won't change. However, should DD be paired with a solid puck distributor who has a similar pass first style, it is possible that he could increase his shot taking numbers. Nonetheless, I've seen him pass up so many obvious shooting opportunities over the years that it's hard for me to fathom him develop a much more balanced shot/pass ratio.

It would be interesting to see him in a situation where he had to shoot more often. Don't know if he would be able to handle it

 

[DAChampion]

It would be interesting to see him in a situation where he had to shoot more often. Don't know if he would be able to handle it

When Pacioretty was out in the game before the olympics, Desharnais had Rene Bourque on his line.

And he fired shots.

 

[Sorinth]

It is certainly likely that Desharnais will be with different linemates at some point in the next year or so. I still would lean toward believing that his basic style won't change. However, should DD be paired with a solid puck distributor who has a similar pass first style, it is possible that he could increase his shot taking numbers. Nonetheless, I've seen him pass up so many obvious shooting opportunities over the years that it's hard for me to fathom him develop a much more balanced shot/pass ratio.

It would be interesting to see him in a situation where he had to shoot more often. Don't know if he would be able to handle it

Because he gets traded

But in all seriousness maybe Galchenyuk there instead of Pacioretty would help in that regard. Galchenyuk also suffers from the pass first mentality so he'd feed Desharnais more than Patches does. It should get at least one of them to shoot more maybe even both. Also since we still want to shelter both having them on the same line makes that easier.

I think DD at wing would also get him to shoot more, he rarely has the puck when breaking into the offensive zone due to him playing deeper in the defensive zone than his speedy wingers. So when he does get the puck he's the trailing man and has more time space which he uses to try to open up passing lanes instead of shooting. As a winger he'll be put in more situations where the only option is to shoot.

 

[Sorinth]

I'd love to see how many of his points come on plays where he doesn't make any real contribution to the play.

It would be fairly meaningless to track. It's something that would be highly subjective and unless you did it consistently for every player in the league you wouldn't even have any comparable. Not too mention you'd have to give him points where he contributed to the goal but didn't get a point.

That being said I know what you mean. His PP assist last night for example whoever was the center on that power play would have gotten that assist. It wasn't about skill it was about opportunity. Which is why just looking at point totals is often deceiving. A worse offensive player who simply gets more opportunities than a better player will put up more points. That's why you can often find players on bad teams put up pretty decent numbers but when they go to a good team don't have anywhere near the same success.

It's why we have to take DD's 60pt season and even his current success with a grain of salt. It's great that he can produce, but can he produce on a good team where he doesn't get the best goalscorers and the most PP time. There isn't a big enough track record of DD not having those things, so we simply don't know whether DD's production is mostly due to opportunity or not.

 

[Natey]

I'd love to see how many of his points come on plays where he doesn't make any real contribution to the play.

You can say that about any player... not to mention, there's plenty of times he's been part of goals where he gets no points. Faceoff wins, screening the goalie, etc.

 

[Habaddict]

I'd love to see how many of his points come on plays where he doesn't make any real contribution to the play.

This may be caused by a sample size that is too small. But if you find
it continuing for a long time, it means you are miss-understanding something
about the play.

As a knock of Desharnais, I'd save that one for non-hockey people.

 

[Patroll]

Desharnais' value

Hey,

I saw a thread on the trade rumors board regarding Desharnain's value (yes I'm aware that his name is spelled Desharnais, but if you know french my self made pun is hilarious), and came up with this short analysis:

I'm a Montreal fan, and I can tell you hes the most unidimensionnal player in the league.

He's small, he's slow, he has a Midget BB shot, and he always thinks pass, even when alone in the crease. The only reason hes producing is because hes playing with the 2 best wingers of the team, and he has good vision to feed them (especially pacioretty).

I figure other teams GM see the same things as me, or at least their guys responsible for watching the habs games. So he probably has no value, even with his "production".

I'd figure we'd be better keeping him, especially regarding his bromance with pacioretty.

We need to acquire a real big right winger with grit and tenacity (a bigger version of Gallagher) to play with them, so we can put Gallagher back with Eller and Galchenyuk to have the kid line as our third line.




So yeah, I wanted you guy's take on his potential value, should he be on the trade block or not, and what would be the place you give him in our lineup next year if you think he should stay.

For me his place would be:

Pacioretty-Desharnain-Big right winger
Big left winger-Plekanec-Cheap gionta?
Galchenyuk-Eller-Gallagher

 

[habitue*]

Hey,

I saw a thread on the trade rumors board regarding Desharnain's value (yes I'm aware that his name is spelled Desharnais, but if you know french my self made pun is hilarious), and came up with this short analysis:

I'm a Montreal fan, and I can tell you hes the most unidimensionnal player in the league.

He's small, he's slow, he has a Midget BB shot, and he always thinks pass, even when alone in the crease. The only reason hes producing is because hes playing with the 2 best wingers of the team, and he has good vision to feed them (especially pacioretty).

I figure other teams GM see the same things as me, or at least their guys responsible for watching the habs games. So he probably has no value, even with his "production".

I'd figure we'd be better keeping him, especially regarding his bromance with pacioretty.

We need to acquire a real big right winger with grit and tenacity (a bigger version of Gallagher) to play with them, so we can put Gallagher back with Eller and Galchenyuk to have the kid line as our third line.




So yeah, I wanted you guy's take on his potential value, should he be on the trade block or not, and what would be the place you give him in our lineup next year if you think he should stay.

For me his place would be:

Pacioretty-Desharnain-Big right winger
Big left winger-Plekanec-Cheap gionta?
Galchenyuk-Eller-Gallagher

It's Desharnais... Not Desharnain.

 

[Moen is Gone]

Great pun

 

[NobleSix]

It's Desharnais... Not Desharnain.

I think this was addressed in the first sentence...

 

[Analyzer*]

Don't forget that when a player engages him he stops and lets them hold him there.

He's useless as **** in the defensive zone.

He can make sometimes great passes, but other than that...

 

[68*]

Desharnain

 

[MXD]

Hey,

I saw a thread on the trade rumors board regarding Desharnain's value (yes I'm aware that his name is spelled Desharnais, but if you know french my self made pun is hilarious), and came up with this short analysis:

I'm a Montreal fan, and I can tell you hes the most unidimensionnal player in the league.

He's small, he's slow, he has a Midget BB shot, and he always thinks pass, even when alone in the crease. The only reason hes producing is because hes playing with the 2 best wingers of the team, and he has good vision to feed them (especially pacioretty).

I figure other teams GM see the same things as me, or at least their guys responsible for watching the habs games. So he probably has no value, even with his "production".

I'd figure we'd be better keeping him, especially regarding his bromance with pacioretty.

We need to acquire a real big right winger with grit and tenacity (a bigger version of Gallagher) to play with them, so we can put Gallagher back with Eller and Galchenyuk to have the kid line as our third line.




So yeah, I wanted you guy's take on his potential value, should he be on the trade block or not, and what would be the place you give him in our lineup next year if you think he should stay.

For me his place would be:

Pacioretty-Desharnain-Big right winger
Big left winger-Plekanec-Cheap gionta?
Galchenyuk-Eller-Gallagher

Mes 2 cennes :

Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Desharnais

Needs to be tested as soon as next camp. Next will be planned accordingly.

 

[MXD]

It's why we have to take DD's 60pt season and even his current success with a grain of salt. It's great that he can produce, but can he produce on a good team where he doesn't get the best goalscorers and the most PP time. There isn't a big enough track record of DD not having those things, so we simply don't know whether DD's production is mostly due to opportunity or not.

To be fair, the players that fit that requirement are usually making twice or thrice the money DD makes and end up playing with inferior players because of, well, cap.

I mean, if your point is that DD isn't doing what Malkin or Crosby does, that deserves a very loud No **** Sherlock.

Players on a 3.5M per salary usually can't produce 60+ points per year while not playing with top scorers, because they aren't top players themselves. They could get to such numbers if playing with great players... and that is what DD did and would be doing without the terrible season beginning.

Antoine Vermette, Rich Peverley, Jarret Stoll, Matt Cullen, Matt Stajan don't and won't get 60+ points seasons playing with 3rd line linemates. I don't know why we actually should expect Desharnais to do so; the last two probably won't even hit 30 points this season. If anything, we have a forward with the Habs who makes a similar salary to Desharnais, and I one has to have a very twisted definition of "contribution" to assert that Rene Bourque is a better contributor than David Desharnais.

 

[JLP]

I don't think DD has any significant trade value, and a number of hockey experts have said the same thing. This is a frustrating part of being a Habs fan these days -- there are those who trumpet DD's value and accuse you of all sorts of prejudice if you criticize him, yet it seems clear that no team other than ours recognizes his "value."

As for next season I can't see DD playing wing as he's never done it, and can't see him centering any line with defensive duties. The only only environment where he can notch assists -- which is his only skill -- is with the best wingers and loads of power play time. Even given these special conditions he's only managed to rank 115th in the league in scoring. These is the sad reality about DD. He can't be moved around in the lineup like other players.

Go Habs Go !!!

 

[MXD]

I don't think DD has any significant trade value, and a number of hockey experts have said the same thing. This is a frustrating part of being a Habs fan these days -- there are those who trumpet DD's value and accuse you of all sorts of prejudice if you criticize him, yet it seems clear that no team other than ours recognizes his "value."

As for next season I can't see DD playing wing as he's never done it, and can't see him centering any line with defensive duties. The only only environment where he can notch assists -- which is his only skill -- is with the best wingers and loads of power play time. Even given these special conditions he's only managed to rank 115th in the league in scoring. These is the sad reality about DD. He can't be moved around in the lineup like other players.

Go Habs Go !!!

...And then there are people like you, who are most obviously perfectly rationnal in their assessments.

On the other hand ... POOR VICTIM!