David Desharnais a legit #2 centerman

[MasterDecoy]

I have been away and super busy in another country to reply to HF but I will today. Otherwise it will look like I only bash Desharnais when it's easy and when he's in a scoring slump.

I acknowledge DD's skill and vision. He has proven that he can hang in the NHL, something I doubted for quite some time. I don't like how this coach practically molds the offensive lines around him but if he produces I can't argue with that.

Here's the one thing that he hasn't proven: Playoffs. We all know what the playoffs are about. Dare I say it "We are a grinding team" or at least we should be in the playoffs. That's right it's a war of attrition, physicality, jam, toughness, durability and all that stuff. We got pushed around by Ottawa last time and it wasn't because of guys like Subban and Gallagher who play physical. It was because the guys who weren't tough like Desharnais became neutralized by the physicality. If Desharnais steps up this playoffs, I will admit that I was wrong about everything. Until that time comes I still think he is a regular season player who has a place on a non-playoff team in the NHL.

i don't think it's fair to point to last year and say "see, useless in the playoffs" when the whole team flatout sucked coach included. inconclusive evidence is what im saying.

 

[Sorinth]

I'm afraid that Eller has not been the same player offensively since the injury last spring. He was crappy in the exhibition season..but then had a quick start to the season where he got a goal on the bench and a couple of other lucky bounces. Since then..we have not seen many offensive glimpses..his offensive hockey sense has been of concern..he doesn't seem to be able to spot open teammates quickly - he often hangs onto the puck until he has no good play..he dead ends himself.

Did Eller play better offensively over a 48-game last season than DD has over the past 47 games? Maybe you can argue that he did..but it's highly debatable - he had 8 goals and 30 points in 46 games..over the past 47 games DD has 12 goals and 40 points.

In 277 career games, Eller has 100 points. In 244 career NHL games, DD has 152 points. this season DD is playing 30 seconds more per game, yet has 18 more points.

Different styles of player - for me it's becoming apparent that Eller doesn't see the ice well enough to be a top-two center...I'm wondering if he may not be more effective as a winger, and learn to use his size and speed to create havoc..he'd have to learn to crash to the net again though..that's the part where I think there's been the biggest change - he's just not quite as willing to take the big hit in an effort to score a goal. Maybe I'm wrong in this assessment..but that's what it looks like to me.

How is it highly debatable? 40 points in 47 games while playing on the 1st line with the best wingers, and playing 52% of the teams total PP time vs 38 pts playing on the 3rd line with at least one sometimes two grinders for 75% of the season while averging a massive 40s of PP time. Eller's stretch was so much more impressive it's not even close. If you want to argue he couldn't maintain it fine, but hardly anyone can put up those numbers in that kind of role.

When comparing career averages you have to take into consideration Eller came in to the NHL at a much younger age. DD was pretty much already fully developed, Eller was not. Then there's role, DD has gotten decnt PP time since his first call up. If you look at their even strength scoring per 60 minutes of the last 3 seasons then Eller is actually quite close to DD. The difference is Eller did it on the 3rd and 4th lines, while DD spent his time next to our best wingers on the 1st/2nd lines.

What's funny is in an earlier post you say how DD's stretch has won you over and the criticism he gets is undeserved. Yet Eller had a more impressive stretch and somehow he just doesn't see the ice well enough to be a top-two center.

 

[NHLFutureGuy3]

i don't think it's fair to point to last year and say "see, useless in the playoffs" when the whole team flatout sucked coach included. inconclusive evidence is what im saying.

I would have to agree with you because there isn't much evidence. So it comes down to speculation for me.

Honestly, did anyone doubt that Subban or Gallagher would step up in the playoffs? Gallagher had no NHL playoff experience but everyone knew he would be a pest to the other team. If I was a betting man I would put my money on those two. If you were a betting man, would you be able put your money on Desharnais in the playoffs? It's just speculation at this point i know but you have to be honest, would you?

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

i don't think it's fair to point to last year and say "see, useless in the playoffs" when the whole team flatout sucked coach included. inconclusive evidence is what im saying.

No. Bourque had a good p
Ayoffs. So did Gallagher and subban. DD has had two playoffs and had been neutralized. Hopefully he gets it done this year cuz he'll be given every opportunity to do so. We suck 5 on 5 and I don't think that will miraculously change in the playoffs.

 

[Vi Nc E x13x]

Just to point out in 2010 he played 4th line mins and was forced to play on the wing ... everyone except Ryan white and Tom Pyatt had more TOI. Last year he was given a bigger role offessively but the whole team was worn out

 

[ECWHSWI]

Just to point out in 2010 he played 4th line mins and was forced to play on the wing ... everyone except Ryan white and Tom Pyatt had more TOI. Last year he was given a bigger role offessively but the whole team was worn out

after a 48 games season ? really ?

 

[Winter Eclipse]

Given all the pro-Desharnais arguments on this board, I have yet to hear a fully articulated reason why his supporters don't consider him a legit #1 Center...

 

[LyricalLyricist]

for the same reason you seem to forget about the first 20 games when talking about DD points total I guess.

Actually there's a difference but for sake of discussion you correct me then do the same?(actually worse but will be generous)

How does that make sense exactly? Be consistent. Choose 1 and I'll use whichever you want. Cut or no cut?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Why he cut it is simple - to try to make Desharnais look bad.

He was quick to point out DD's slump nearly 50 games ago, but has no issue cutting out the Habs 10 game unbeaten streak because didn't support his statement that we have the same record before and after, lol.

At least I can respect binne. He's not a DD fan, but at least he tries to make up arguments with stats. I even respect Lafleur to a extent because he tries to do the same, even with the stupid comments that we would be better without Desharnais in our lineup.

End of the day.. Desharnais is going no where.

And that's too bad for our team. 'Cause in the grand scheme of things he's holding us back. 65 or 48 points or however you want to look at it...

 

[Not The One]

Given all the pro-Desharnais arguments on this board, I have yet to hear a fully articulated reason why his supporters don't consider him a legit #1 Center...

I've read this phrase a few times and I still can't understand what it means.

You think we should think that he's a #1 center even if we haven't said so? I guess you really have to work hard to continue bashing him.

And that's too bad for our team. 'Cause in the grand scheme of things he's holding us back. 65 or 48 points or however you want to look at it...

Saturday: Incredible game-tying goal, key assist on the OT game-winner.
Sunday: Great play and key assist on the game-winning goal.
Monday: Three threads criticizing him on top of the board. Bashers turn to pretzel logic.

Is that the HF Montreal Special?

 

[SpeedyPotato]

I really don't like that line as a long term answer. It really needs a bigger winger on the right side. I love Gallagher but he's not going to last long if he's always on a line where he has to do all of the dirty work. With what you're proposing Vanek-Chucky-Gally, Patches-DD-big winger, is a better way to go.

Can't argue with you there!!! Could you imagine if MB was able to sign Vanek and get E.Kane a the draft !!! Pipe dream I know but it doesn't hurt anyone..

 

[SpeedyPotato]

I'll reserve my judgement until the playoffs are over... but I can remember him being very good vs Boston in the 7 game series before he got injured during his first season. He won't ever be a 1st line center true, but he does make players around him better. He can be a very good complement on a SC contender in my opinion, if he's well surrounded on the 2nd line.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

I've read this phrase a few times and I still can't understand what it means.

You think we should think that he's a #1 center even if we haven't said so? I guess you really have to work hard to continue bashing him.



Saturday: Incredible game-tying goal, key assist on the OT game-winner.
Sunday: Great play and key assist on the game-winning goal.
Monday: Three threads criticizing him on top of the board. Bashers turn to pretzel logic.

Is that the HF Montreal Special?

Really? "great" play? "key assist"? I mean... it's like DD's contributions are either exaggerated or downplayed depending which side you're on. Jeez.

 

[habitue*]

Given all the pro-Desharnais arguments on this board, I have yet to hear a fully articulated reason why his supporters don't consider him a legit #1 Center...

What is the title of this thread ?

By the way - if you ever noticed - we don't have a legit #1 center in Montreal. But we have a couple of guys trying their best to fill the void.

DD has no supporters, just some people with enough common sense to give him credit when it is due.

Not your case of course.

 

[Whitesnake]

for the same reason you seem to forget about the first 20 games when talking about DD points total I guess.

Difference is that you're talking about the evaluation of a full season, while we're talking about the necessity to use a guy NOW who is producing NOW. When it will be time to evaluate him at the end of the year, we will say that it wasn't as great as the last stretch indicated 'cause you can't forget the first 19 games. In the meantime, you have to use who's doing a great job at this present moment.

Even DD himself said it. When asked about what he thinks about his latest stretch, he says that it's great.....but in the end, he hopes to have a much better overall season next year. He knows he sucked. Everybody does. Nobody is dumb enough to say that he is finally having a great season based on the last 45 games. We're seeing he's having a great big stretch now that we have to use. Go with who is hot. He is doing his share NOW. Wasn't doing it at the start of the year. People are just fighting on 2 different levels. "He's doing great now, he has 41 points in 46 games". "Yeah, but he sucked at the beginning of the year" "Well, true but NOW he does much better". "Well yeah, but he sucked before" etc. etc. etc.

Reserve that response when the analysis will be more profound and we will have to discuss who we're keeping and not. That's just like the "But we're screwing up Galchenyuk development " nonsense that is going on.....Yes.....we will IF that lasts 3 or 4 more years. But this is Galchenyuk FIRST full season in the NHL. The extent that people goes 'cause of their dislike of DD is beyond everything else we've witnessed. I've never seen a guy being bashed so much while he's producing . I,ve never seen people wanting to just send home a guy who is producing. And I've never seen, aside from a goalie, a guy who has to have on his shoulders, that the lack of offensive and defensive play are ultimately and solely because of his use.

 

[Not The One]

Really? "great" play? "key assist"? I mean... it's like DD's contributions are either exaggerated or downplayed depending which side you're on. Jeez.

Yeah, he did most of the stickwork on that play. I don't even know how you can possibly dismiss his play on that goal. Jeez.



Unbelievable how anybody could argue otherwise. I don't know how to say it without sounding mean, but some of you CLEARLY have a vendetta against DD. It's beyond all possible logic. Relative to other forwards on this team, DD is playing great. Take him out of the lineup this year, and we don't get a sniff of the playoffs.

 

[Whitesnake]

I'll reserve my judgement until the playoffs are over... but I can remember him being very good vs Boston in the 7 game series before he got injured during his first season. He won't ever be a 1st line center true, but he does make players around him better. He can be a very good complement on a SC contender in my opinion, if he's well surrounded on the 2nd line.

But that's another topic. EVERYBODY, including the supposed DD fans that we are (when we actually just feel that the bashing or his use is totally unfair), will be on his case if he doesn't perform. Nobody in here thinks he's a superstar or not even a #1 C. Everyboyd recognized that while he's not awful, he is not a great 2-way player. We all know that his size is detrimental to his game and that at one point in the playoffs, when the going gets tough, he will not have the upper hand. And that at one point he will face better, stronger if not both. We recognize that he doesn't score as much as he often passes too much. But that's just a testament to the team we have right now. He's still our best offensive C asset NOW. Everything can change and will probably change in the summer, or the start of the season and ESPECIALLY if he goes in hiding in the playoffs.

 

[Habaddict]

Difference is that you're talking about the evaluation of a full season, while we're talking about the necessity to use a guy NOW who is producing NOW. When it will be time to evaluate him at the end of the year, we will say that it wasn't as great as the last stretch indicated 'cause you can't forget the first 19 games. In the meantime, you have to use who's doing a great job at this present moment.

Even DD himself said it. When asked about what he thinks about his latest stretch, he says that it's great.....but in the end, he hopes to have a much better overall season next year. He knows he sucked. Everybody does. Nobody is dumb enough to say that he is finally having a great season based on the last 45 games. We're seeing he's having a great big stretch now that we have to use. Go with who is hot. He is doing his share NOW. Wasn't doing it at the start of the year. People are just fighting on 2 different levels. "He's doing great now, he has 41 points in 46 games". "Yeah, but he sucked at the beginning of the year" "Well, true but NOW he does much better". "Well yeah, but he sucked before" etc. etc. etc.

Reserve that response when the analysis will be more profound and we will have to discuss who we're keeping and not. That's just like the "But we're screwing up Galchenyuk development " nonsense that is going on.....Yes.....we will IF that lasts 3 or 4 more years. But this is Galchenyuk FIRST full season in the NHL. The extent that people goes 'cause of their dislike of DD is beyond everything else we've witnessed. I've never seen a guy being bashed so much while he's producing . I,ve never seen people wanting to just send home a guy who is producing. And I've never seen, aside from a goalie, a guy who has to have on his shoulders, that the lack of offensive and defensive play are ultimately and solely because of his use.

Thank you. Well said. And it saves me considerable typing.

Maybe some teeth gnashing as well.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

Yeah, he did most of the stickwork on that play. I don't even know how you can possibly dismiss his play on that goal. Jeez.



Unbelievable how anybody could argue otherwise. I don't know how to say it without sounding mean, but some of you CLEARLY have a vendetta against DD. It's beyond all possible logic. Relative to other forwards on this team, DD is playing great. Take him out of the lineup this year, and we don't get a sniff of the playoffs.

"great"? Do you know wtf great means? Stop whining. Pretty sure when he was doing nothing for the 1st 20 games of the season we were doing pretty well. Pretty sure when he had a down year last year we were 1st in the conference. Pretty sure his best season we didn't make the playoffs. So lets go easy on the dramatics. No one's out to get DD. It's just sad when people call typical hockey plays "great".

 

[Mario le Magnifique]

"great"? Do you know wtf great means? Stop whining. Pretty sure when he was doing nothing for the 1st 20 games of the season we were doing pretty well. Pretty sure when he had a down year last year we were 1st in the conference. Pretty sure his best season we didn't make the playoffs. So lets go easy on the dramatics. No one's out to get DD. It's just sad when people call typical hockey plays "great".

It's also sad when people start grasping at straws to bash on a guy who's filling in the hardest job on any NHL team, on that is, being the top offensive center that NEEDS to feed his wingers on a daily basis, also, he carries LOADS of pressure in Montreal and is quite successful. He's obviously not good enough to compete with Sidney Crosby, but he's good enough for a good 2nd / 3rd line with some offensive upside, and not too shabby defensively either. Not a knock on the guy saying that, and he's paid exactly that, to be on the 2nd or 3rd line. Not his fault if the Habs have no real no1 center.

Also on that goal he battled hard, and won the puck battles, not a great goal but a 'grindy' one, that needed hard work and effort. Give credit where it is due for Christ sake. Stop hating.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

It's also sad when people start grasping at straws to bash on a guy who's filling in the hardest job on any NHL team, on that is, being the top offensive center that NEEDS to feed his wingers on a daily basis, also, he carries LOADS of pressure in Montreal and is quite successful. He's obviously not good enough to compete with Sidney Crosby, but he's good enough for a good 2nd / 3rd line with some offensive upside, and not too shabby defensively either. Not a knock on the guy saying that, and he's paid exactly that, to be on the 2nd or 3rd line. Not his fault if the Habs have no real no1 center.

Also on that goal he battled hard, and won the puck battles, not a great goal but a 'grindy' one, that needed hard work and effort. Give credit where it is due for Christ sake. Stop hating.

Are we really crying about how hard DD has it? Is this real life? I think people are a little too sensitive here. If not kissing a player's ass on every occasion makes me a hater then so be it. Get a grip.

 

[bentheprop]

It's also sad when people start grasping at straws to bash on a guy who's filling in the hardest job on any NHL team, on that is, being the top offensive center that NEEDS to feed his wingers on a daily basis, also, he carries LOADS of pressure in Montreal and is quite successful. He's obviously not good enough to compete with Sidney Crosby, but he's good enough for a good 2nd / 3rd line with some offensive upside, and not too shabby defensively either. Not a knock on the guy saying that, and he's paid exactly that, to be on the 2nd or 3rd line. Not his fault if the Habs have no real no1 center.

Also on that goal he battled hard, and won the puck battles, not a great goal but a 'grindy' one, that needed hard work and effort. Give credit where it is due for Christ sake. Stop hating.

He's not nearly good enough defensively to be a 3rd line center. He has to be top 6 or nothing. I still think that he should be tried on the wing though. If the NHL goes ahead with backing the center up 12-18 inches for face off infractions it's going to hurt him more than any other center we have. Also it might encourage him to shoot more which would only be a good thing.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

But that's another topic. EVERYBODY, including the supposed DD fans that we are (when we actually just feel that the bashing or his use is totally unfair), will be on his case if he doesn't perform. Nobody in here thinks he's a superstar or not even a #1 C. Everyboyd recognized that while he's not awful, he is not a great 2-way player. We all know that his size is detrimental to his game and that at one point in the playoffs, when the going gets tough, he will not have the upper hand. And that at one point he will face better, stronger if not both. We recognize that he doesn't score as much as he often passes too much. But that's just a testament to the team we have right now. He's still our best offensive C asset NOW. Everything can change and will probably change in the summer, or the start of the season and ESPECIALLY if he goes in hiding in the playoffs.

Yeah, I don't think so man... He just plays with our best players, that's it.

 

[De Montreal]

There's a chance he finish the season as our leading scorer.

The hate towards him reminds me of the Koivu situation. Koivu was leading our offence year after year but many didnt liked him cause even though he was our best player, he was supposedly still bad for the team cause he was holding off younger, more promising players. He was very good just not the #1 centre the team needed.

Ok sure, Desharnais isnt the perfect centre man ... but he's our biggest offensive threat with Pacioretty. He will finish the season with +15 more points than Plekanec...

 

[JLP]

What is the title of this thread ?

By the way - if you ever noticed - we don't have a legit #1 center in Montreal. But we have a couple of guys trying their best to fill the void.

DD has no supporters, just some people with enough common sense to give him credit when it is due.

Not your case of course.

lol you can't say "we don't have a legit #1 center in Montreal" and then start the count instead at "2" so that DD looks better. That's reinventing the numerical system. We do a lot to accommodate DD but there are limits