David Booth - All The Tools....No Toolbox

[BassMason]

His head injury resulted from his head down style.
His knee injury was from driving the centre. If he went around the outside it wouldn't have happened. Players tend to stick their legs out more on this kind of play and I view it as more reactionary/dirty then just plain dirty if such a line can be drawn. I think it could happen to him again.

That all said you are absolutely correct the majority of his accidents were just that, accidents.

All I'm saying is that with all these wounds piling up combined with his style of play if there was a pool for most games lost to injury booth would be a high pick.

 

[StringerBell]

His head injury resulted from his head down style.
His knee injury was from driving the centre. If he went around the outside it wouldn't have happened. Players tend to stick their legs out more on this kind of play and I view it as more reactionary/dirty then just plain dirty if such a line can be drawn. I think it could happen to him again.

That all said you are absolutely correct the majority of his accidents were just that, accidents.

All I'm saying is that with all these wounds piling up combined with his style of play if there was a pool for most games lost to injury booth would be a high pick.

If only we had more perimeter players. Enough with guys like Booth who go to the scoring areas, amirite?

 

[BassMason]

If only we had more perimeter players. Enough with guys like Booth who go to the scoring areas, amirite?

I love Booth driving the middle of the ice! I hope I'm dead wrong and he barges in there causing havoc and escapes without a scratch. Would be amazing to get two full healthy seasons out of Booth.

 

[biturbo19]

For me, whether or not i'd like to keep Booth at this point...comes down to one major question.

Can we find a Center to play with him?


To elaborate...if we're going to continue trying to force that Kesler-Booth connection, i don't really want much of anything to do with it. It just doesn't work. Offensively, it's two guys who don't jive, both hog the puck and then fire it from wherever when they run out of room. Defensively...it's just silly to saddle Kesler as a Selke calibre pivot, with Booth who may try hard...but often looks completely clueless defensively. However...if we can find a respectable passing/playmaking center to play with Booth, in an offensive role...i'm all for keeping him, and there's no way we replace a decently sized, very fast, hard-driving, physical winger who has 30g pedigree, for $4.2M on the open market...or even in trade, without absolutely gutting out depth or future.

The injury stuff is definitely a concern, and yes...it's extremely frustrating to watch Booth play. But this FA crop is just abysmal. Provided we can bring in the right pieces around him and fit it all in cap-wise...i'm entirely willing to give Booth one last year to buck up.

As far as the 'injury thing' goes...sure it's been a lot of 'accidents' and 'unfortunate happenings' that have lead to his injuries...but isn't that the case with most injuries? It's accidents, weird stuff, freak events. What other types of injuries are there...? On purpose injuries...? Like the Richards hit that 'ruined' Booth? I mean, you can argue all you want that the injuries are 'not his fault'...but how many of Salo's injuries were truly 'his fault' and not just 'bad luck'? At the end of the day...you can't objectively argue that David Booth over his career hasn't been prone to injury. It just is what it is...he gets hurt, fairly often. I'd wager it's correlated to the reckless style of game he plays...but whatever the case, he gets hurt. It's a pretty clear pattern.

 

[Scurr]

Players get knee'd all the time even when they have their heads up. Cheap, dirty hits are always going to happen regardless. So I don't see what that has to do with it.

Sure, but they don't all end up needing knee surgery.

 

[thepuckmonster]

Sure, but they don't all end up needing knee surgery.

He didn't have knee surgery from the Porter hit.

 

[vanuck]

Sure, but they don't all end up needing knee surgery.

Point was, him being kneed wasn't necessarily a product of the way he plays.

 

[arttk]

What the hell is wrong with some of the posters here, his last head injury was in the 09/10 season. That is like 3 years ago. Getting a concussion three years ago doesn't make you prone to head injury. If he gets concussion ala Eric Lindros / Marc Savard, sure. But come on, use some common sense. Don't just make @#$% up because if fits your Booth hating agenda.

Using some of the people's logic here, Daniel Sedin is prone to injury because his head is like a magnet for Duncan Keith's elbow. Bieksa is prone to getting his leg lacerated because it happened twice.

 

[Scurr]

He didn't have knee surgery from the Porter hit.

Really? My bad.

What the hell is wrong with some of the posters here, his last head injury was in the 09/10 season. That is like 3 years ago. Getting a concussion three years ago doesn't make you prone to head injury. If he gets concussion ala Eric Lindros / Marc Savard, sure. But come on, use some common sense. Don't just make @#$% up because if fits your Booth hating agenda.

Using some of the people's logic here, Daniel Sedin is prone to injury because his head is like a magnet for Duncan Keith's elbow. Bieksa is prone to getting his leg lacerated because it happened twice.

He's been injured multiple times since then. I have a hard time believing a guy with a history of knee, groin and head injuries isn't going to be injury prone going forward.

 

[Tiranis]

I have a hard time believing a guy with a history of knee, groin and head injuries isn't going to be injury prone going forward.

Why? He had completely fluky injuries and has always come back in good shape, in a reasonable amount of time. There's really no indication that Booth is injury prone.

Sami Salo is injury prone — he can literally injure himself without anybody's help. All it takes is for Sami to wind up for a slapshot the wrong way and he's out for a month or two. In the mean time, Booth got injured on two horrible plays (one of which got a 4 game suspension and another one which probably deserved an even bigger one).

 

[vanuck]

As far as the 'injury thing' goes...sure it's been a lot of 'accidents' and 'unfortunate happenings' that have lead to his injuries...but isn't that the case with most injuries? It's accidents, weird stuff, freak events. What other types of injuries are there...? On purpose injuries...? Like the Richards hit that 'ruined' Booth? I mean, you can argue all you want that the injuries are 'not his fault'...but how many of Salo's injuries were truly 'his fault' and not just 'bad luck'? At the end of the day...you can't objectively argue that David Booth over his career hasn't been prone to injury. It just is what it is...he gets hurt, fairly often. I'd wager it's correlated to the reckless style of game he plays...but whatever the case, he gets hurt. It's a pretty clear pattern.

There's a difference between Booth's and (the majority of) Salo's injuries though. Most of the injuries Sami sustained were of the groin variety, and a slew of others that were labelled as "lower body". The Achilles' tendon and his concussion last year were bad luck, sure. But Salo's absences have been largely due to recurring issues with his groin which he kept hurting over and over in training, in practice, during games etc. Whereas Booth's have been just plain unfortunate, suffered on illegal plays - all of which should have been penalized.

When you look at these two players and the way they're hurt, they're not all for the same reason.

 

[Scurr]

Why? He had completely fluky injuries and has always come back in good shape, in a reasonable amount of time. There's really no indication that Booth is injury prone.

Sami Salo is injury prone — he can literally injure himself without anybody's help. All it takes is for Sami to wind up for a slapshot the wrong way and he's out for a month or two. In the mean time, Booth got injured on two horrible plays (one of which got a 4 game suspension and another one which probably deserved an even bigger one).

In my experience knee, groin and head injuries all tend to be recurring. He also blew out his groin sprinting, Salo style.

 

[vanuck]

If you want to call Booth 'bad luck prone', go ahead and be my guest. Just don't expect a GM to move a player out for that reason - never mind whether or not any rational person should even be believing in that sort of stuff in the first place.

 

[vanuck]

In my experience knee, groin and head injuries all tend to be recurring. He also blew out his groin sprinting, Salo style.

Rather hard to hold it against someone for something that hasn't even recurred yet though. There's nothing to suggest it'll be an issue going forward.

I remember seeing somewhere that players were wary of that sprint coming off a lockout - rather dumb idea to begin with, whoever implemented it.

 

[Tiranis]

Rather hard to hold it against someone for something that hasn't even recurred yet though. There's nothing to suggest it'll be an issue going forward.

I remember seeing somewhere that players were wary of that sprint coming off a lockout - rather dumb idea to begin with, whoever implemented it.

Didn't they also say that a few other guys pulled their groins on it but not as bad as Booth? I believe the other teams that implemented it also got injured guys out of it. Basically... dumb idea by the coaching staff.

 

[vanuck]

Didn't they also say that a few other guys pulled their groins on it but not as bad as Booth? I believe the other teams that implemented it also got injured guys out of it. Basically... dumb idea by the coaching staff.

I really don't remember if others did too. I don't think much was made about it at the time. Didn't Hamhuis and Garrison also have a groin issue to start the season?

 

[Scurr]

Rather hard to hold it against someone for something that hasn't even recurred yet though. There's nothing to suggest it'll be an issue going forward.

I remember seeing somewhere that players were wary of that sprint coming off a lockout - rather dumb idea to begin with, whoever implemented it.

I'm not holding it against him. I'm taking the information available and making an educated guess. Any one of head/groin/knee injuries could be recurring... seems like a reasonable guess to me.

Don't ask the professional athlete to sprint because they might get injured. OK.

 

[Aphid Attraction]

I'm not holding it against him. I'm taking the information available and making an educated guess. Any one of head/groin/knee injuries could be recurring... seems like a reasonable guess to me.

Don't ask the professional athlete to sprint because they might get injured. OK.

No more reasonable then to guess that any player may get Injured next year, or for that matter to take the data and say that it is less likely to happen a second time...

But you can rest assured that if Booth gets smashed in the head the same way or has some one lay a knee to knee hit with the same impact then yes it will be the same outcome as before, I guess that could be called is injury prone, but every single player in the league is prone to being injured from a shoulder to the head or knee on knee, even iron man Henrik...

 

[vanuck]

I'm not holding it against him. I'm taking the information available and making an educated guess. Any one of head/groin/knee injuries could be recurring... seems like a reasonable guess to me.

Don't ask the professional athlete to sprint because they might get injured. OK.

And yet you're calling him injury-prone - because they might recurr - despite the fact that they've been one-offs and that there's no history of trouble like with Salo's groin. Maybe, I don't know, wait and see if it actually happens again before declaring him to be so? Many players could be called injury-prone by this same definition.

 

[SgtToody]

Why? He had completely fluky injuries and has always come back in good shape, in a reasonable amount of time. There's really no indication that Booth is injury prone.

Sami Salo is injury prone — he can literally injure himself without anybody's help. All it takes is for Sami to wind up for a slapshot the wrong way and he's out for a month or two. In the mean time, Booth got injured on two horrible plays (one of which got a 4 game suspension and another one which probably deserved an even bigger one).

A series of flukey injuries, in my dictionary, is the definition of injury prone. Three years ago isn't that long ago, but that he has failed to show glimpses of his best year only cements the image on poor Mr. Booth. We can't trade him (likely) and can't buy him out. This may be forcingGillis' hand when it comes to addressing the on-ice issues; makes Ballard buyout more likely; increases chances that a core player will be moved; puts even more pressure (if possible) on a resolution with Luongo. Make a bad move and don't expect Booth to help bail the team out...

 

[Scurr]

No more reasonable then to guess that any player may get Injured next year, or for that matter to take the data and say that it is less likely to happen a second time...

But you can rest assured that if Booth gets smashed in the head the same way or has some one lay a knee to knee hit with the same impact then yes it will be the same outcome as before, I guess that could be called is injury prone, but every single player in the league is prone to being injured from a shoulder to the head or knee on knee, even iron man Henrik...

You don't think a player that has already had a knee injury is more likely to get one next season?

Really? My bad.



He's been injured multiple times since then. I have a hard time believing a guy with a history of knee, groin and head injuries isn't going to be injury prone going forward.

And yet you're calling him injury-prone - because they might recurr - despite the fact that they've been one-offs and that there's no history of trouble like with Salo's groin. Maybe, I don't know, wait and see if it actually happens again before declaring him to be so? Many players could be called injury-prone by this same definition.

That's not exactly what I said... close enough I guess.

 

[Aphid Attraction]

You don't think a player that has already had a knee injury is more likely to get one this season? .

Without knowing the damage?
But if we assume that since it did not need sugary it was not that bad and fully healed, then no I dont think he is more likely to get a knee injury than any other player that goes into the dirty areas, but he is more likely than say a Mason Raymond, but only because he avoids the high impact areas...

He gets injuries because of where he plays, the areas he goes in, not because his body is weak

And like has been said, if anything we need more guys playing like that not less.

 

[vanuck]

That's not exactly what I said... close enough I guess.

The debate so far has been whether he's injury-prone or not. It all started when you pointed out his knee surgery... or lack thereof. Seems pretty clear to me.

At what point do you start giving him that label? Merely because it 'could' happen again? Daniel Sedin might get another concussion since he's had one already - do we start calling him that too?

 

[Scurr]

The debate so far has been whether he's injury-prone or not. It all started when you pointed out his knee surgery... or lack thereof. Seems pretty clear to me.

At what point do you start giving him that label? Merely because it 'could' happen again? Daniel Sedin might get another concussion since he's had one already - do we start calling him that too?

If Daniel Sedin misses 52 games over the next two seasons with knee and groin issues then yes, I would start to consider how healthy he's going to be moving forward. If he gets another concussion soon I'm going to be worried as hell. It's not any one injury as much as the totality of them along with the way he has to play to be effective. He's a gym rat too, that tends to be hard on the body.

I start calling him injury prone when one of these injuries becomes chronic. For now he's just a player likely to be injury prone.

 

[vanuck]

If Daniel Sedin misses 52 games over the next two seasons with knee and groin issues then yes, I would start to consider how healthy he's going to be moving forward. If he gets another concussion soon I'm going to be worried as hell. It's not any one injury as much as the totality of them along with the way he has to play to be effective. He's a gym rat too, that tends to be hard on the body.

I start calling him injury prone when one of these injuries becomes chronic. For now he's just a player likely to be injury prone.

And that was also the point I made when comparing Booth to Salo. Sami's groin issues were recurring i.e chronic.

I think we were just referring to two different things - for you, the physiological side of why he might get re-injured if there's damage to the same area (groin, knee or head), and for me it was the reason why he sustained them in the first place. So fair enough.