Player Discussion David Backes IV

[Over the volcano]

Yeah, Backes is still way too slow to forecheck. That penalty Cehlarik took last night probably wouldn’t have happened if Backes was fast enough to start the forecheck. Maybe try Kuhlman on LW? If that doesn’t work then Backes is the common denominator and he should sit.

He is the team’s best forecheker outside of the 4th line.

 

[smack66]

He is the team’s best forecheker outside of the 4th line.

Not sure if you are serious or forgot the sarcasm emoji.

 

[Over the volcano]

Not sure if you are serious or forgot the sarcasm emoji.

I don’t know - are we really seriously blaming his checking ability for Chelarik taking a penalty?

After the 4th line there is Backes, the rest of the team’s forwards have 1/2 the hits he does. Not bad for a guy who’s too slow to forecheck. The team needs a physical presence in the top 9 and needs it on their forecheck come playoff time. Despite his decline this team needs what he brings when he’s been on his game this year.

He’s also been a monster at the faceoff dot how they’re using him.

People should careful what they wish for with him.

 

[smack66]

Hits don't equal being the best forechecker.

 

[Over the volcano]

Hits don't equal being the best forechecker.

Alone they don’t, but they also don’t equal being “way too slow” to play.

 

[smack66]

Not looking to pick on backes but when you say he's the best forechecker outside of the 4th line makes me wonder about your bias. I think Bergeron, Marchand, DeBrusk and others are far superior forecheckers.

 

[kdog82]

I feel bad for the guys that have to play on his line. Nobody brings down a players production more than Backes.

 

[Mainehockey33]

He is the team’s best forecheker outside of the 4th line.

When he catches up to the defenseman, but he’s often too slow. Dump and chase doesn’t suit Backes anymore.

I think the one thing he’s still really good at is board play and holding possession along the boards. Putting Heinen on that line should help Backes a lot.

 

[Estlin]

Number of hits may be the most overrated statistic in hockey. If you're hitting players, then that means that your team doesn't have the puck. Call me crazy, but I'd prefer to see my team with possession of the puck (and thereby creating scoring opportunities) over having players banging bodies. In other words, supporting Backes by resorting to the number of hits that he has doesn't really help his (or the team's) cause.

 

[maxl7]

Number of hits may be the most overrated statistic in hockey. If you're hitting players, then that means that your team doesn't have the puck. Call me crazy, but I'd prefer to see my team with possession of the puck (and thereby creating scoring opportunities) over having players banging bodies. In other words, supporting Backes by resorting to the number of hits that he has doesn't really help his (or the team's) cause.

Inject this post into my veins

 

[Over the volcano]

Number of hits may be the most overrated statistic in hockey. If you're hitting players, then that means that your team doesn't have the puck. Call me crazy, but I'd prefer to see my team with possession of the puck (and thereby creating scoring opportunities) over having players banging bodies. In other words, supporting Backes by resorting to the number of hits that he has doesn't really help his (or the team's) cause.

Sounds like our 4th line sucks then because each of them are near tops in the league.

The critique of the Hit stat as a reflection of possession only holds weight when comparing on a team vs team basis. Doesn’t make any sense when comparing within the same team or on the same line.

The playoffs are coming... and Boston doesn’t have anyone else in the top 9 that brings any kind of physical game to get on and grind down opponents. If he can get on top of his game like he has at times this year he will be a big asset to the club in its current makeup.

Also FWIW he’s been more successful at the faceoff dot than Bergeron the way they’ve been deploying him.

 

[Mick Riddleton]

He is the team’s best forecheker outside of the 4th line.

That's gold Jerry, Gold -

 

[maxl7]

Sounds like our 4th line sucks then because each of them are near tops in the league.

The critique of the Hit stat as a reflection of possession only holds weight when comparing on a team vs team basis. Doesn’t make any sense when comparing within the same team or on the same line.

The playoffs are coming... and Boston doesn’t have anyone else in the top 9 that brings any kind of physical game to get on and grind down opponents. If he can get on top of his game like he has at times this year he will be a big asset to the club in its current makeup.

Also FWIW he’s been more successful at the faceoff dot than Bergeron the way they’ve been deploying him.

There's far more criticisms of the hit stat, including the highly subjective nature of recording them and the bias evident in some rinks around the league. It's not a very useful stat and probably isn't very good as a proxy for physicality, if that's what people are trying to use it for here.

 

[Mainehockey33]

I think Backes still throws some good hits, but they don’t lead to turnovers on the forecheck. Most of his big hits that I can remember happen along the side wall. The play where Cehlarik took the penalty Backes made a hit, but it was too late, the puck was already gone.

 

[Over the volcano]

There's far more criticisms of the hit stat, including the highly subjective nature of recording them and the bias evident in some rinks around the league. It's not a very useful stat and probably isn't very good as a proxy for physicality, if that's what people are trying to use it for here.

Sure - except all subjectivity and arena to arena trends (which people are just assuming) doesn’t hold weight when comparing players on the same team who are playing in the same arenas in the same games. It also doesn’t discount the massive gap between Backes and the rest of the roster in the top 9.

But throw it out the window if you really think it’s too subjective- with all your objectivity, what forwards than the 4th line bring a physical game even close to what Backes does?

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

That's gold Jerry, Gold - Then put him on the 4th line, that is what he is. Move up Wags, he has better hands, faster and hits. More pts than backes who has only one 5 on 5 pt since Xmas. Wags is clearly better. Wags has 15 even strength pts to Backes 7. Wags no PP time has triple the even strength goals. Wags is plus 2, Backes minus 5 the only minus on the team in the top 13

They both are 4th liners. Wagner has one more point than Backes does in 6 more games played. Backes produces more right now than Wagner (0.26 PPG > 0.24PPG) . They have the same TOI/Gm. Moving Wagner, Nordstrom, Kuraly, Acciari, anyone up for Backes is nothing more than re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. At the end of the day, you will still have a 4th liner in a 3rd liner position. Keep Wagner where he is because he works excellent there with his line-mates.

 

[BMC]

KPD in todays Globe :


I can’t be the only one who winces each time David Backes drops the gloves for a fight. The proud veteran forward has had no fewer than three concussions since joining the Bruins and one led him to exit the playoffs last year on rubber legs. He teed up in fights in back-to-back games (San Jose-Tampa Bay) this past week for the first time in his career. His courage and willingness are commendable. But, enough.

He's right. Backes is literally one punch to the jaw away from having to hang 'em up. I'm sure it is important to him to contribute to the team somehow but at this point he's risking his future health. I literally cringed when he went with Haley the other night.

 

[maxl7]

Sure - except all subjectivity and arena to arena trends (which people are just assuming) doesn’t hold weight when comparing players on the same team who are playing in the same arenas in the same games. It also doesn’t discount the massive gap between Backes and the rest of the roster in the top 9.

But throw it out the window if you really think it’s too subjective- with all your objectivity, what forwards than the 4th line bring a physical game even close to what Backes does?

The subjectivity is on an individual event basis, not exclusively at the rink level. My point was that the problems with it are so pervasive that's its essentially useless.

I don't think any forwards besides the fourth line bring that level of physicality but I truly don't care because I don't think you should optimize your lineup for physicality. I only care about who helps regain possession of the puck and creates chances. If a guy does that by being gritty and physical? Fantastic! All the better. But prioritizing that specific skillset is antiquated. I say this as some who loves hitting, fighting, and all the fun stuff you don't really see in other sports.

 

[Mick Riddleton]

Then put him on the 4th line, that is where he belongs. No pts for Coyle since he came here, he needs help. Basically playing two 4th lines still

I would like to see them switch Wags and Backes. Wags, Coyle and Heinen when everyone is healthy. Sit Nordy as the extra.
Let's face it he has better hands, is much faster and hits.

Looking at the stats backs this up

Backes who has only - One - 5 on 5 pt since Xmas. Wags who is hot has - Ten in that time period = ( 10 - 1)
Wags has 15 even strength pts to Backes 7 this year = (15 - 7)
Wags no PP time has triple the even strength goals as Backes. = (9 - 3)
Wags is plus 2, Backes minus 5 the worst minus on the team in the top 15 = (+2 to -5)

Why are we holding Wags back and rewarding a true 4th liner and hampering Coyle to a cycle/dump game and no mid ice speed with a standing still passer

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

Alone they don’t, but they also don’t equal being “way too slow” to play.

You’re attempting to twist this now.

David Backes may throw a lot of hits, but you’re just fooling yourself if you think he’s the best forechecker outside of the fourth line. Saying that doesn’t mean I am calling him “too slow to play”. It means that there are numerous players that are better forecheckers, and they’ve already been listed.

 

[Mick Riddleton]

They both are 4th liners. Wagner has one more point than Backes does in 6 more games played. Backes produces more right now than Wagner (0.26 PPG > 0.24PPG) . They have the same TOI/Gm. Moving Wagner, Nordstrom, Kuraly, Acciari, anyone up for Backes is nothing more than re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. At the end of the day, you will still have a 4th liner in a 3rd liner position. Keep Wagner where he is because he works excellent there with his line-mates.

You may wanna look at the stats above in my post 944 breaking it down, Wags in clearly better but you are right it is a 4th liner for a 4th liner. For this year this is what we have to offer poor Coyle

 

[maxl7]

Then put him on the 4th line, that is where he belongs. No pts for Coyle since he came here, he needs help. Basically playing two 4th lines still

I would like to see them switch Wags and Backes. Wags, Coyle and Heinen when everyone is healthy. Sit Nordy as the extra.
Let's face it he has better hands, is much faster and hits.

Looking at the stats backs this up

Backes who has only - One - 5 on 5 pt since Xmas. Wags who is hot has - Ten in that time period = ( 10 - 1)
Wags has 15 even strength pts to Backes 7 this year = (15 - 7)
Wags no PP time has triple the even strength goals as Backes. = (9 - 3)
Wags is plus 2, Backes minus 5 the worst minus on the team in the top 15 = (+2 to -5)

Why are we holding Wags back and rewarding a true 4th liner and hampering Coyle to a cycle/dump game and no mid ice speed with a standing still passer

I don't think Wagner is the answer to the third line, either.

 

[Otherworld]

There is no reason not to move guys up and down the lineup to reward them for good play. That being said I do not believe Cassidy will look to do this as I believe he is very happy with the 4th line as is. The line serves several purposes for Cassidy now and I assume he will use the line just the same come playoff time.

That being said, as far as Backes goes, I believe that healthy competition for this spot he normally takes up is the smartest way to go. Ensure that whoever is playing in that spot earns it.

 

[BadBruins]

They both are 4th liners. Wagner has one more point than Backes does in 6 more games played. Backes produces more right now than Wagner (0.26 PPG > 0.24PPG) . They have the same TOI/Gm. Moving Wagner, Nordstrom, Kuraly, Acciari, anyone up for Backes is nothing more than re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. At the end of the day, you will still have a 4th liner in a 3rd liner position. Keep Wagner where he is because he works excellent there with his line-mates.

I agree, but Wagner has 9 ES goals on the season. Backes has 7 ES points. He has 1 ES goal in 32 games since Dec 1st. He's a really bad 5 on 5 player.

I actually like his game recently. I think the hope is he can at least become an effective 3rd wheel on that line when everyone is healthy. I'm skeptical. I think he struggles getting there. Always a second too late on everything. It's only going to be harder in the playoffs when the pace is amplified. His physical play has picked up as of late. Maybe it was his conversation with Cassidy, but it does seem like he's playing more of a wrecking ball style.

Need scoring from that 3rd line though. I see a common factor in their inability 5 on 5.

 

[Mick Riddleton]

I don't think Wagner is the answer to the third line, either.

Maybe not the answer but I am talking about when everyone comes back. Wags can be effective at turnovers to help out Heinen and Coyle. Keep up to them with much more speed. Has better hands and is clearly a better player 5 on 5 and it's not even close.

Backes is not the answer, but would be better on the 4th line. Coyle has to lug it in on every entry with 3 guys on him. If it is dumped in, heck Celly and Backes arrive late to it. Cycling is nice but that's the 4th lines job.

We went a got an answer to the 3rd line center spot and put him with duds. Colyle needs some speed in the neutral zone and a give and go guy not a give and watch. Backes is a step or two behind getting to a spot to get a shot on net. Wags can do the dirty work better in my view