Dave Tippett Discussion - The Off-Season Edition

[RemoAZ]

Mod Note - Moved out of the Prospect Devleopment Camp Thread.

I think this quote by Perlini is true for all young forwards:

"You don’t have the puck too much in the NHL game so you need to make sure you are doing the right things when you don’t, and then make sure you are on the right side of it in the defensive zone".

Duclair, are you listening...This is how Reider/Martinook made the team and how DVO could make it, and maybe Perlini.

Really hoping injecting the pure talent of Domi and Duclair into the lineup opened Tippett's eyes to the possibilities our young guys bring and that gets at least Perlini, Strome and Dvo legit shots along with a couple of the Dmen.

Click to read more...

 

[Bonsai Tree]

Really hoping injecting the pure talent of Domi and Duclair into the lineup opened Tippett's eyes to the possibilities our young guys bring and that gets at least Perlini, Strome and Dvo legit shots along with a couple of the Dmen.

DT must be the most underappreciated coach in the league. DT has made more with less talent than any coach that I can remember, anywhere in the league.

 

[XX]

DT must be the most underappreciated coach in the league. DT has made more with less talent than any coach that I can remember, anywhere in the league.

He does that with a very specific, narrow brand of hockey and type of player, though. Would you really argue that he's better with veterans who play a tight checking style of game? He's been faced with diminishing returns in recent years because it's not terribly hard to counter that style once you've got a lot of tape of it.

I hope that, given more skilled players, he lets them roam and do their thing. His usage of Ribiero in the past and his refusal to put Domi and Duclair together despite their sometimes almost instantaneous results doesn't inspire a ton of confidence.

It's clearly his show now, so it's really on DT to deliver.

 

[AZviaNJ]

He does that with a very specific, narrow brand of hockey and type of player, though. Would you really argue that he's better with veterans who play a tight checking style of game? He's been faced with diminishing returns in recent years because it's not terribly hard to counter that style once you've got a lot of tape of it.

I hope that, given more skilled players, he lets them roam and do their thing. His usage of Ribiero in the past and his refusal to put Domi and Duclair together despite their sometimes almost instantaneous results doesn't inspire a ton of confidence.

It's clearly his show now, so it's really on DT to deliver.

which makes his 5 year extension and promotion baffling. Rare for a coach to get extended/promoting when missing playoffs 4 straight years.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

which makes his 5 year extension and promotion baffling. Rare for a coach to get extended/promoting when missing playoffs 4 straight years.

The ownership doesn't have the resources to go shopping for a new coach, but even if they did they bought fully into the idea that the reason the team missed the playoffs for so long was the GM. This of course fails to take into account Don Maloney's performance as GM before IA took over the reins, but that's not a rarity when a regime change occurs - once a relationship is broken that far up the totem pole it rarely gets fixed.

Tippett is IA's guy, and he'll remain so until Tippett-led teams don't at least hit .500 for the season. Ironically enough, whether Tip's teams succeed or fail will be largely due to the roster the GM gives him. I haven't seen any evidence at all that Dave Tippett is any sort of coaching wunderkind. He's definitely competent but it's not as though his systems and techniques elevate the rosters he has above their station. In fairness to him, though, you could say the same thing about 95% of the current head coaches in the league.

 

[XX]

which makes his 5 year extension and promotion baffling. Rare for a coach to get extended/promoting when missing playoffs 4 straight years.

They're enamored with him (ownership). I think he's clearly coasting by on reputation at this point. But he wanted his own show, and now he gets to run it. I'm waiting before casting judgment, but I have my doubts. Maybe it was Maloney that was the author of all our pain all along. Not likely, in my mind, but there's no excuses now. It's 100% on DT.

He faceplants, ruins prospects, makes bad signings etc... it's 100% attributable to him. Let's see how he does. Although I should add he's pretty much bulletproof for at least two or three years, so this won't be a short ride.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

He does that with a very specific, narrow brand of hockey and type of player, though. Would you really argue that he's better with veterans who play a tight checking style of game? He's been faced with diminishing returns in recent years because it's not terribly hard to counter that style once you've got a lot of tape of it.

I hope that, given more skilled players, he lets them roam and do their thing. His usage of Ribiero in the past and his refusal to put Domi and Duclair together despite their sometimes almost instantaneous results doesn't inspire a ton of confidence.

It's clearly his show now, so it's really on DT to deliver.

Right when he was hired he had a long interview on TV. He noted that he sat down with GMDM and told GM that in order to win with the very low budget available they would need to play shut down, trapping defensive 2-1 hockey games. He built the team based upon the budget. It was a rational decision to play that brand of hockey. He had a wider open game with Dallas.

 

[XX]

Right when he was hired he had a long interview on TV. He noted that he sat down with GMDM and told GM that in order to win with the very low budget available they would need to play shut down, trapping defensive 2-1 hockey games. He built the team based upon the budget. It was a rational decision to play that brand of hockey. He had a wider open game with Dallas.

He did nothing with those Dallas teams. Blame it on whatever you want, but that was still the result. He sucks at goalie management, let's just be brutally honest here. It's also looking like they're going to be coming in under past budgets now, so there hasn't been an influx of talent. We're basically banking on DT suddenly manifesting an ability to integrate and develop forwards. Skepticism is fully warranted.

 

[Ebb]

I have been in the "fire DT camp" for quite some time. In my opinion, he is a midling coach and definitely not worth the contract he got (price and term). Around draft day, I was pretty stoked with the direction we were going (although I would have preferred Brown--but I'll get over it hopefully), but since then, my anticipation has waned. It's still somewhat early to lose most of my interest, but it ain't looking pretty.

It's like DT (or his "bosses") said "Chayka, you take care of the draft and I'll (or Tippett) will handle free agency" rather than the GroupThink approach they were purporting to follow.

If anything, I guess we'll see if Tippett can actually improve the team's standing this season given more say.

Let's just say that at this point, I'm not too optimistic that we'll improve much, but I welcome Tippett (and the team) to prove me wrong.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

It's like DT (or his "bosses") said "Chayka, you take care of the draft and I'll (or Tippett) will handle free agency" rather than the GroupThink approach they were purporting to follow.

What makes you think that? I thought Tippett supposedly wanted to go all in for this season. wouldn't he have made some big signings? Erikkson, Okposo....


The team is doing what most of the Anti-Tipp people wanted the team to do and people are still mad at him. I just don't get it.

 

[Mosby]

He's definitely competent but it's not as though his systems and techniques elevate the rosters he has above their station.

Wait, what? Isn't that the whole Tippett thing -- his rosters punch above their weight class?

Hated the Maloney firing but so far, so good for Coach/GM Tippka. No complaints. Looking forward to the next move. Rosters still has a few spots.

 

[XX]

Wait, what? Isn't that the whole Tippett thing -- his rosters punch above their weight class?

They did in the early years but the results have been more pedestrian in recent times.

 

[Ebb]

What makes you think that? I thought Tippett supposedly wanted to go all in for this season. wouldn't he have made some big signings? Erikkson, Okposo....

I'm guessing we had offers to both of those players for reasonable contracts, but once they (and other offensive forwards) were gone, we may have switched to Tippalytics.

Tippett wants to put together a team that can get into the playoffs playing his type of game. While the roster isn't there yet, a few more players could at least give us a chance of getting in.

I'll wait and see, but I definitely don't see the "dedication to speed" that was mentioned at one of the press conferences.

 

[_Del_]

We were going to inject speed, talent and youth a couple years ago, too, when the rookies clearly outplayed the veteran favourites head to head. Then we promptly demoted them all and went back to Moss, Chip, ACampbell, et al with a "we really feel we need to be competitive this year" quote, despite being more competitive in the games with youth than without.

The words really mean nothing to me right now. Only what they do. Just like the arena situation.

On the brightside, they haven't done anything dumb with the prospects yet, and despite making several moves I didn't like before and at the draft, I haven't seen anything to really raise my ire yet. So far, so good.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

I'm guessing we had offers to both of those players for reasonable contracts, but once they (and other offensive forwards) were gone, we may have switched to Tippalytics.

Tippett wants to put together a team that can get into the playoffs playing his type of game. While the roster isn't there yet, a few more players could at least give us a chance of getting in.

I'll wait and see, but I definitely don't see the "dedication to speed" that was mentioned at one of the press conferences.

Huh? By not giving ridiculous contracts the team is doing the right thing. And giving reasonable deals are the right thing.

And what do you mean switched to Tippalytics, and not being dedicated to speed? We've only added two forwards, one who will be a healthy scratch on many night and only see around 13min a game.

By adding Goligoski, Strome I see the team leaning more towards speed and offense. Those two are going to have a lot bigger impact on the playing style of the team than anyone else.

And with not having another guy signed right now, there is an open spot for someone like Dvorak to take. What's happening right now should be making the Anti-Tipp crowd ecstatic. No Chip, no Gordon, no Grossmann types. There are open spots for young guys and they added a PMD.

 

[Ebb]

Huh? By not giving ridiculous contracts the team is doing the right thing. And giving reasonable deals are the right thing.

I'm fine with those decisions, so not sure what the "huh?" is about. I was just commenting that we probably can't sign any of the top-tier UFAs, but there is still speed out there that we could acquire (probably not UfAs though).

And what do you mean switched to Tippalytics, and not being dedicated to speed? We've only added two forwards, one who will be a healthy scratch on many night and only see around 13min a game.

I just mean that the players we did sign do not seem like "Chayka" players (not that we really know what that is yet). I just use Tippalytics as a term to refer to more of a Tippet player based on "lots of try," "gut feelings," and "defensive acumen."

By adding Goligoski, Strome I see the team leaning more towards speed and offense. Those two are going to have a lot bigger impact on the playing style of the team than anyone else.

I like the Goligoski addition and hope that Strome excels (although some have mentioned in other threads that he's a bit slow although his offensive wiles are top notch), but those two aren't enough if you are emphasizing speed. I mean we have some speedsters (Domi, Duclair, Rieder, and possibly Martinook), but we also have some "slowsters" (Hanzal, Doan, Vermette, Richardson, and I'm guessing White). I'm not familiar with McGinn's game, but he seems to have some speed (if he's recovered and his "back issues" don't cause problems or slow him down during his contract with us--or his post-hockey life).

And with not having another guy signed right now, there is an open spot for someone like Dvorak to take. What's happening right now should be making the Anti-Tipp crowd ecstatic. No Chip, no Gordon, no Grossmann types. There are open spots for young guys and they added a PMD.

If we stick with not adding any non-Tippet style guys (although White seems Tippett-esque), I'd be somewhat happy (roster-wise), but we're still going to need a proven scorer rather than rely on Domi and Duclair having a similar season to their last one (I'm hoping they don't slump, but you never know) AND Strome, Dvorak, and (possibly) Perlini having strong NHL rookie seasons.

Perhaps they'll sign a European player (or two) that will significantly improve our offensive game, or trade for someone. Honestly, we need a #1 C, #1 RW, #2 LW, #2 C, #1 RD, and #2 RD to be a truly competitive NHL team (I was never expecting that to happen this season). Of course we may have some possibilities coming up and did secure that #2 LD we needed, so we're on the right track.

 

[kihekah19*]

Mod Note - Moved out of the Prospect Devleopment Camp Thread.



Really hoping injecting the pure talent of Domi and Duclair into the lineup opened Tippett's eyes to the possibilities our young guys bring and that gets at least Perlini, Strome and Dvo legit shots along with a couple of the Dmen.

All prospects have a legit shot. Every time, make no mistake about it.

 

[RemoAZ]

Well I wasn't expecting my post to become a thread but what I am hoping for is Tippett has changed his thinking a bit after reviewing last season. Domi and Duclair brought more excitement and a competitive edge when they were playing together. Some of that may have been chemistry but I think the main factor was how much more talent they had than any other duo we've had in a while. Dave has to be happy with how much more they brought to the ice than the rest of his group. Hopefully he was impressed enough to get even more aggressive this season with youthful talent as opposed to average at best vets. You have to have a lot of talent to win in this league and the only way our roster is going to get the talent level required is to play and develop the youth at the NHL level. Sacrificing a few wins early in the season to give the youth precious minutes will make us a much more dangerous team when the playoffs come around.

 

[RemoAZ]

All prospects have a legit shot. Every time, make no mistake about it.

But I don't want the deciding factor to be who gives us the best chance to win game one. I want it to be who gives us the best chance to be competitive by the end of the season.

 

[kihekah19*]

But I don't want the deciding factor to be who gives us the best chance to win game one. I want it to be who gives us the best chance to be competitive by the end of the season.

I'm fully aware of what you want.

And I'm sorry this thread was started, as it's kind has always lead to arguments. The type of argument that those who relish a scapegoat can't be swayed from.

 

[RemoAZ]

I'm fully aware of what you want.

And I'm sorry this thread was started, as it's kind has always lead to arguments. The type of argument that those who relish a scapegoat can't be swayed from.

No reason to be sorry. I'm actually feeling pretty optimistic with the off season moves so far. I think there's a real chance Tippett has modernized his thinking a bit. I bet he watched a lot of tape evaluating last season and the more he saw our young guys playing, the better he has to feel about the direction they're leading us. We'll see soon enough.

 

[kihekah19*]

No reason to be sorry. I'm actually feeling pretty optimistic with the off season moves so far. I think there's a real chance Tippett has modernized his thinking a bit. I bet he watched a lot of tape evaluating last season and the more he saw our young guys playing, the better he has to feel about the direction they're leading us. We'll see soon enough.

I think you're confusing talent with some sort of epiphany. He just flat out hasn't had the talent in the past.

Edit: I'm sorry for me, these threads are like a damn train wreck I keep coming back to. A train wreck of unsubstantiated, contradictory and unwarranted blame.

 

[RemoAZ]

I think you're confusing talent with some sort of epiphany. He just flat out hasn't had the talent in the past.

Well he hasn't had a lot but in the past, and this is where we differ in opinion, he's always played vets when giving more minutes to a younger, more talented player (Turris for example) might have been more difficult to coach and cost a game or two early on but benefited the team in the long run. That's my opinion and I think it has hurt the organization in more ways than just on the ice.

But that's the past. I'm hoping for changes moving forward. This is the perfect year for him to push it a bit allowing several more talented rookies to make the roster and play big minutes.

 

[kihekah19*]

Well he hasn't had a lot but in the past, and this is where we differ in opinion, he's always played vets when giving more minutes to a younger, more talented player (Turris for example) might have been more difficult to coach and cost a game or two early on but benefited the team in the long run. That's my opinion and I think it has hurt the organization in more ways than just on the ice.

But that's the past. I'm hoping for changes moving forward. This is the perfect year for him to push it a bit allowing several more talented rookies to make the roster and play big minutes.

Look at the difference between Turris and Domi. Domi embraced going back to Jr's and spoke positively of the decision. Employers often test ones metal. Punk az whiner's need not apply.

There is just so much we don't know as fans as well.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

If we stick with not adding any non-Tippet style guys (although White seems Tippett-esque), I'd be somewhat happy (roster-wise), but we're still going to need a proven scorer rather than rely on Domi and Duclair having a similar season to their last one (I'm hoping they don't slump, but you never know) AND Strome, Dvorak, and (possibly) Perlini having strong NHL rookie seasons.

Perhaps they'll sign a European player (or two) that will significantly improve our offensive game, or trade for someone. Honestly, we need a #1 C, #1 RW, #2 LW, #2 C, #1 RD, and #2 RD to be a truly competitive NHL team (I was never expecting that to happen this season). Of course we may have some possibilities coming up and did secure that #2 LD we needed, so we're on the right track.

Why? Really, why? This season isn't about making the playoffs, or being a competitive team. This season is about maturing our young players for an extended playoff run for the next 6 to 10 seasons. I want to see another 4 or 5 rookies this year. Then, starting next year, just one or two a year.