TSN Radio Dave Poulin .. the spin doctor

[613Leafer]

Poulin "this is 8 games in 13 days. It's remarkable. We've been here for 4 years and a lot of good things have happened in that time"

... Umm.. What good things have happened here? We made the playoffs ONCE? And lost in the first round.

16/30 teams make the playoffs every season. Which means the definition of the most average team in the league (15th) makes the playoffs.

Once in four years we've managed to do what an average team can do... And thats considered "a lot of good things have happened in that time"?

No there havent been many good things, at all. Id be ok with missing the playoffs if we were a young team building towards something. But the majority of our roster are guys in their primes on 2nd or 3rd contracts, we have an average farm system, and we have zero capspace.

Sorry Poulin, you guys have accomplished nothing remotely worth noting, and don't even have a particularly bright future barring a trade/prospect heavily going in our favour.

 

[leafs in five]

Lots of people thought this was a bubble team that could just as easily miss or catch lightening in a bottle and get in. They surprised and defied the odds longer than you'd expect but are settling in to those predictions. It's really not hard to believe that Nonis was in that camp. What some naive folks need to do is realize that what gets said behind closed doors and what is fed to fans, media and season ticket holders is rarely the same thing in any entertainment business.

yeah it's just, none of the moves he made aside from Bernier really make sense if he didn't expect the team to be good for two more seasons. why trade picks for proven playoff performer Bolland if you don't expect to make the playoffs anyway? why give Clarkson a contract that you acknowledge will look bad in years 5-6-7 years (because in year one you're getting a very good player) if you don't expect the team to be good in that first year?

if Nonis was in that camp, he is incompetent.

 

[leafs in five]

Poulin "this is 8 games in 13 days. It's remarkable. We've been here for 4 years and a lot of good things have happened in that time"

... Umm.. What good things have happened here? We made the playoffs ONCE? And lost in the first round.

apparently, they put the Leafs in a position to make the playoffs if they caught lightning in a bottle. all it cost was five draft picks, a buyout, a 7-year contract for a 4th liner. and $130m to lock up Phaneuf, Kessel, Bozak. it's important to show your faith in the core of the team that you don't expect to make the playoffs.

 

[HarrisonFord]

Another one of my favourite quotes I heard from Dreger last night. Saying that the Leafs were where they expected to be in the standings right now, and that Nonis had told management (Timmy) that this was going to be a rough year.

I'm calling ********. You don't go out and sign Bolland and Clarkson if you don't think you're going to be a playoff team this year.

 

[TonsofPuppies*]

Another one of my favourite quotes I heard from Dreger last night. Saying that the Leafs were where they expected to be in the standings right now, and that Nonis had told management (Timmy) that this was going to be a rough year.

I'm calling ********. You don't go out and sign Bolland and Clarkson if you don't think you're going to be a playoff team this year.

Nonis' face as the final buzzer went on Saturday night said anything but "expected".

 

[Erndog]

Another one of my favourite quotes I heard from Dreger last night. Saying that the Leafs were where they expected to be in the standings right now, and that Nonis had told management (Timmy) that this was going to be a rough year.

I'm calling ********. You don't go out and sign Bolland and Clarkson if you don't think you're going to be a playoff team this year.

When I heard that garbage, about how Nonis' apparently 'told the higher ups it may be a tough year' I IMMEDIATELY thought of what garbage that is considering they traded for Dave Bolland.... a 3rd line C who is a PENDING UFA! They bought out Grabbo, to trade 3 picks for a pending UFA replacement!?!?!?! KNOWING they were going to be hard pressed to make the playoffs?

BS! Complete BS. And if thats really what they did, I fear for the intellect of this management.

 

[pucky]

When I heard that garbage, about how Nonis' apparently 'told the higher ups it may be a tough year' I IMMEDIATELY thought of what garbage that is considering they traded for Dave Bolland.... a 3rd line C who is a PENDING UFA! They bought out Grabbo, to trade 3 picks for a pending UFA replacement!?!?!?! KNOWING they were going to be hard pressed to make the playoffs?

BS! Complete BS. And if thats really what they did, I fear for the intellect of this management.

The management is inept. Nonis was a Burke disciple or they're just buddies? They are the same seed. They both screwed the franchise but Nonis is really driving in the nail. The franchise has been mismanaged for a long time but Rogers/MLSE know they can count on a steady steam of profit. Little if anything will change.

 

[Diatomic]

Another one of my favourite quotes I heard from Dreger last night. Saying that the Leafs were where they expected to be in the standings right now, and that Nonis had told management (Timmy) that this was going to be a rough year.

I'm calling ********. You don't go out and sign Bolland and Clarkson if you don't think you're going to be a playoff team this year.

Apparently nonis said that this year and the next will be bad. Jeez i wonder how 2 Years from Now the team will be, I'm going to go on a limb here and say the same or even worse.

 

[Drew311]

If you, want to call me baby, just go ahead now.

 

[Diatomic]

apparently, they put the Leafs in a position to make the playoffs if they caught lightning in a bottle. all it cost was five draft picks, a buyout, a 7-year contract for a 4th liner. and $130m to lock up Phaneuf, Kessel, Bozak. it's important to show your faith in the core of the team that you don't expect to make the playoffs.

The core is overpayed, overrated and terribly built.
Phaneuf would be a #3 on a cup contender
Kessel would be a 1st liner on a cup contender
Bozak would be a #4 on a cup contender.

 

[daveleaf]

The core is overpayed, overrated and terribly built.
Phaneuf would be a #3 on a cup contender
Kessel would be a 1st liner on a cup contender
Bozak would be a #4 on a cup contender.

I disagree some. I think you are being a little harsh. Dion would be better as a second pairing and there is no doubt about that. Kessel has been great and even though he is slumping a little bit his effort has been high. Bozak is better than a 4th liner. In fact, a few months ago people would be singing his praises. Would he be better slotted as a 2nd or 3rd line guy? Yes he would but this is a process.

Leafs need to address either top centre and top pairing d-man this summer. Both would be great but one would help immensely.

I really don't think this team is that far off from being a 3rd or 4th in the conference for a few years with a chance to make a deal or develop some young players to get them over the top.

8 game loosing streak is tough but not the end of the world. Step away from the edge.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Nonis' face as the final buzzer went on Saturday night said anything but "expected".

it said "I am so screwed."

 

[Daisy Jane]

Apparently nonis said that this year and the next will be bad. Jeez i wonder how 2 Years from Now the team will be, I'm going to go on a limb here and say the same or even worse.

here is the thing

if Nonis did say that. here are the questions I'd be asking:

1: why would you cap yourself. You're in the East - the team as it WAS last year could have challenged for a spot and left yourself open for defensive help

2: why wouldn't you trade off the UFAs (at least ONE of them) to gain a pick?

3: why would you trade for Bolland if you felt you'd struggle down the stretch.


I can go on..
again Nonis said at the beginning of the year that they weren't finished building the team and that they would continue to fix and work the team. that is loads different than saying "you know - we're expecting to struggle to make the playoffs for the next two years

I'm sorry. again - struggling is not failing to pick up points in their last 8 games. at all. zilch. nada. especially when eleven of those players been through this twice.

i'm not even going to finish tis because it pisses me off.

 

[daveleaf]

here is the thing

if Nonis did say that. here are the questions I'd be asking:

1: why would you cap yourself. You're in the East - the team as it WAS last year could have challenged for a spot and left yourself open for defensive help

2: why wouldn't you trade off the UFAs (at least ONE of them) to gain a pick?

3: why would you trade for Bolland if you felt you'd struggle down the stretch.


I can go on..
again Nonis said at the beginning of the year that they weren't finished building the team and that they would continue to fix and work the team. that is loads different than saying "you know - we're expecting to struggle to make the playoffs for the next two years

I'm sorry. again - struggling is not failing to pick up points in their last 8 games. at all. zilch. nada. especially when eleven of those players been through this twice.

i'm not even going to finish tis because it pisses me off.

What would you have said if they traded Kullemin right after the California swing? You would be saying he screwed the teams chances. Still can get a 3rd or 4th for Kully if he doesn't sign him.

Bolland: Guys like him don't grow on trees, they play a tough role and perform and have skill. Not his fault he got injured. I think he gets resigned if he hasn't had enough for this fishbowl.

He had cap problems last year, some of them from before like Tucker and others and it forced him not to resign Komrarov. There are many teams out there that could use a tough guy for a low round pic and Orr and MacLaren have easy to digest contracts.

You could go on but you wouldn't be saying this before the 8game loosing streak.

This hurts guy, there is no way of sugar coating it. Some changes have to be made but there are some very good players here. This team will be better and it won't take too much.

 

[HarrisonFord]

Nonis' face as the final buzzer went on Saturday night said anything but "expected".

Yup. He knows what he told management about this team. They expected to make it into the playoffs, probably with a goal of making it through the first round.

When I heard that garbage, about how Nonis' apparently 'told the higher ups it may be a tough year' I IMMEDIATELY thought of what garbage that is considering they traded for Dave Bolland.... a 3rd line C who is a PENDING UFA! They bought out Grabbo, to trade 3 picks for a pending UFA replacement!?!?!?! KNOWING they were going to be hard pressed to make the playoffs?

BS! Complete BS. And if thats really what they did, I fear for the intellect of this management.

It's just spin. Trying to keep the image of the management group intact. If you think back to what they were saying on the air when the season started, it was that they expected to do better than last season. That they had brought in a new goalie, Bolland, Clarkson, and key pieces had gotten older. That this team was better than last year's team. How do you call a team "better" than last year and apparently say that you expect to be on the outside looking in?

I honestly wonder sometimes if TSN or MLSE cuts Dreger's paychecks.

And with the picks we gave up for Bolland, how bad does that look now? He's not going to stick around. He came from a winning culture in Chicago to this circus. He's going to get as far away from here as he can. The guy knows what winning is. And I think it will be a very strong statement about the culture of this organization and core if he bails in the offseason.

Apparently nonis said that this year and the next will be bad. Jeez i wonder how 2 Years from Now the team will be, I'm going to go on a limb here and say the same or even worse.

I don't even know where we will be 2 years from now probably stuck in mediocrity still. We'll have JVR, Rielly, Gardiner, Bernier and Kessel going for us, but we'll also have and older Lupul, who knows if Kadri will still be around, David Clarkson will still be here with that stupid contract, and probably terrible secondary scoring still. I really hope that we can get Leivo, Finn, Grannberg, Nilsson, Percy, and Gauthier up here and into serviceable players.

Honestly, that's my one glimmer of hope still here:

Finn
Percy
Grannberg
Nilsson
Rielly
Gardiner

I think we have a chance at having a decent looking young blueline in a few years. Though at that point, we'll probably lack scoring

 

[Daisy Jane]

What would you have said if they traded Kullemin right after the California swing? You would be saying he screwed the teams chances. Still can get a 3rd or 4th for Kully if he doesn't sign him.

Bolland: Guys like him don't grow on trees, they play a tough role and perform and have skill. Not his fault he got injured. I think he gets resigned if he hasn't had enough for this fishbowl.

He had cap problems last year, some of them from before like Tucker and others and it forced him not to resign Komrarov. There are many teams out there that could use a tough guy for a low round pic and Orr and MacLaren have easy to digest contracts.

You could go on but you wouldn't be saying this before the 8game loosing streak.

This hurts guy, there is no way of sugar coating it. Some changes have to be made but there are some very good players here. This team will be better and it won't take too much.

Komarov didn't want to play for the leafs, because he wanted to be play in a situation where he had a bigger chance to put up more minutes so he can play for team Finland.

If Bolland doesn't want to play here because of the fishbowl - then I don't want him here. No one says this stuff regarding other massive "The Team Matters" market.

I've been saying the same things from get go: I need this team to pick in what direction they're going to go. I personally - wouldn't have been upset had the team been in Calgary/Edmonton territory all season. it would have been upsetting to the fact that they missed the playoffs, but it means we're getting Bennett, Eklad, Reinhart etc.

OR strive to be better being top 2-3 or having a FIRM Lock on the #1 wild card spot should have been in this team's sights. sure, struggle for a few weeks or whatever.

what I'mtired of - is no man's land. Tampa: they suck, they get great drafts, then they make the playoffs rinse and repeat. Colorado: they sucked, now they've got a great collection of picks, and now we'l have to see what goes on. there. even Montreal - they sucked got Gally, and now back up they go.

us?
we tread water.

at dead line day - they could have gotten something to secure the back end a little bit. and again - there's a big difference between struggling, and stepping off the ledge and plummeting down the standings like the Leafs did. that's where I'm pissed off.

I mean, again, Nonis said to everyone this year - we're still a growing team there is going to be ups and downs - that's fine. but don't pee on my leg and say it's raining that Nonis was all "oh yah -this year and next year will be a struggle." Ahuh.

So if this is the case - if Nonis is truly saying that the next two years would have been a struggle - I would have rather of them not have traded for Bolland, not have signed Clarkson - MacArthur said he wasn't going to sign here because of Randy - and fine whatever, replace him with 1million dollar Raymond and roll the dice.


or trade everyone and let the marlies play (like the ones you plan to build around - Percy/MacWilliam/Granberg) put them all together and let them struggle it out together and build chemistry), and draft high.

it's not coming from a place of "Oh we lost 8 straight." I will always wave my optimistic flag and hope for the best, but I've always said it from a place of realism. I will gladly take the suck. I will gladly ride the rollercoaster . I'm tired of the elevator crash ride though.

 

[Teeder9]

Komarov didn't want to play for the leafs, because he wanted to be play in a situation where he had a bigger chance to put up more minutes so he can play for team Finland.

If Bolland doesn't want to play here because of the fishbowl - then I don't want him here. No one says this stuff regarding other massive "The Team Matters" market.

I've been saying the same things from get go: I need this team to pick in what direction they're going to go. I personally - wouldn't have been upset had the team been in Calgary/Edmonton territory all season. it would have been upsetting to the fact that they missed the playoffs, but it means we're getting Bennett, Eklad, Reinhart etc.

OR strive to be better being top 2-3 or having a FIRM Lock on the #1 wild card spot should have been in this team's sights. sure, struggle for a few weeks or whatever.

what I'mtired of - is no man's land. Tampa: they suck, they get great drafts, then they make the playoffs rinse and repeat. Colorado: they sucked, now they've got a great collection of picks, and now we'l have to see what goes on. there. even Montreal - they sucked got Gally, and now back up they go.

us?
we tread water.

at dead line day - they could have gotten something to secure the back end a little bit. and again - there's a big difference between struggling, and stepping off the ledge and plummeting down the standings like the Leafs did. that's where I'm pissed off.

I mean, again, Nonis said to everyone this year - we're still a growing team there is going to be ups and downs - that's fine. but don't pee on my leg and say it's raining that Nonis was all "oh yah -this year and next year will be a struggle." Ahuh.

So if this is the case - if Nonis is truly saying that the next two years would have been a struggle - I would have rather of them not have traded for Bolland, not have signed Clarkson - MacArthur said he wasn't going to sign here because of Randy - and fine whatever, replace him with 1million dollar Raymond and roll the dice.


or trade everyone and let the marlies play (like the ones you plan to build around - Percy/MacWilliam/Granberg) put them all together and let them struggle it out together and build chemistry), and draft high.

it's not coming from a place of "Oh we lost 8 straight." I will always wave my optimistic flag and hope for the best, but I've always said it from a place of realism. I will gladly take the suck. I will gladly ride the rollercoaster . I'm tired of the elevator crash ride though.

This bothers me to no end. If we aren't going to be good for 2 years what is the point of Clarkson being signed to that contract? It's bs back-side saving double talk. He thought we were turning that corner as much as anyone did and overplayed a 2-7 like it was pocket aces. He didn't refuse to help this team because of the costs of doing business with other teams, he couldn't help this team because of the cost of his business with this team.

 

[Daisy Jane]

This bothers me to no end. If we aren't going to be good for 2 years what is the point of Clarkson being signed to that contract? It's bs back-side saving double talk. He thought we were turning that corner as much as anyone did and overplayed a 2-7 like it was pocket aces. He didn't refuse to help this team because of the costs of doing business with other teams, he couldn't help this team because of the cost of his business with this team.

exactly!!
the look on Nonis's face was not "yah, i have a lot more work to do come summer." at the end of Saturday night. it was a look of "oh. shii....how the hell do I try to save my job?"

 

[daveleaf]

Komarov didn't want to play for the leafs, because he wanted to be play in a situation where he had a bigger chance to put up more minutes so he can play for team Finland.

If Bolland doesn't want to play here because of the fishbowl - then I don't want him here. No one says this stuff regarding other massive "The Team Matters" market.

I've been saying the same things from get go: I need this team to pick in what direction they're going to go. I personally - wouldn't have been upset had the team been in Calgary/Edmonton territory all season. it would have been upsetting to the fact that they missed the playoffs, but it means we're getting Bennett, Eklad, Reinhart etc.

OR strive to be better being top 2-3 or having a FIRM Lock on the #1 wild card spot should have been in this team's sights. sure, struggle for a few weeks or whatever.

what I'mtired of - is no man's land. Tampa: they suck, they get great drafts, then they make the playoffs rinse and repeat. Colorado: they sucked, now they've got a great collection of picks, and now we'l have to see what goes on. there. even Montreal - they sucked got Gally, and now back up they go.

us?
we tread water.

at dead line day - they could have gotten something to secure the back end a little bit. and again - there's a big difference between struggling, and stepping off the ledge and plummeting down the standings like the Leafs did. that's where I'm pissed off.

I mean, again, Nonis said to everyone this year - we're still a growing team there is going to be ups and downs - that's fine. but don't pee on my leg and say it's raining that Nonis was all "oh yah -this year and next year will be a struggle." Ahuh.

So if this is the case - if Nonis is truly saying that the next two years would have been a struggle - I would have rather of them not have traded for Bolland, not have signed Clarkson - MacArthur said he wasn't going to sign here because of Randy - and fine whatever, replace him with 1million dollar Raymond and roll the dice.


or trade everyone and let the marlies play (like the ones you plan to build around - Percy/MacWilliam/Granberg) put them all together and let them struggle it out together and build chemistry), and draft high.

it's not coming from a place of "Oh we lost 8 straight." I will always wave my optimistic flag and hope for the best, but I've always said it from a place of realism. I will gladly take the suck. I will gladly ride the rollercoaster . I'm tired of the elevator crash ride though.

You're frustrated and upset and I can understand that but saying that I want no mess of what is happening in Edm. I will disagree with many that say they are better off than we are. I would take Kessel over Hall any day. I like the young guys we have, I love the goaler situation and think an off summer of finding Reimer a new home will make us that much stronger. There are a lot of pieces here.

Before you go off on Clarkson and Bolland. Both players were very successful in other systems and markets, do you think they forgot how to play hockey or maybe coaching staff is not putting them in the positions they need to be to be successful?

Hey. It sucks we lost 8 in a row, everything that could have gone wrong has and now it looks like the season is lost.

I like Nonis, I like he is not in the media all the time and the face of the franchise, I like the moves he has made and no one is perfect. If Bolland was not hurt all year and Clarkson started off better than a ten game suspension we wouldn't be sitting here bashing them.

Who cares what people said, we all believed that this team would fight for the final three spots and they surprised us with a great stretch from January to March and we sat in third. I think we are a better team but sometimes people need to bark for the reason of barking.

Things suck right now but to say that this team is not better than last years team is BS. We are getting there and guys will know that every game is a big game next year. I just hope RC is gone because I think a new coaching style is what this team needs.

 

[The Legend]

You're frustrated and upset and I can understand that but saying that I want no mess of what is happening in Edm. I will disagree with many that say they are better off than we are. I would take Kessel over Hall any day. I like the young guys we have, I love the goaler situation and think an off summer of finding Reimer a new home will make us that much stronger. There are a lot of pieces here.

Before you go off on Clarkson and Bolland. Both players were very successful in other systems and markets, do you think they forgot how to play hockey or maybe coaching staff is not putting them in the positions they need to be to be successful?

Hey. It sucks we lost 8 in a row, everything that could have gone wrong has and now it looks like the season is lost.

I like Nonis, I like he is not in the media all the time and the face of the franchise, I like the moves he has made and no one is perfect. If Bolland was not hurt all year and Clarkson started off better than a ten game suspension we wouldn't be sitting here bashing them.

Who cares what people said, we all believed that this team would fight for the final three spots and they surprised us with a great stretch from January to March and we sat in third. I think we are a better team but sometimes people need to bark for the reason of barking.

Things suck right now but to say that this team is not better than last years team is BS. We are getting there and guys will know that every game is a big game next year. I just hope RC is gone because I think a new coaching style is what this team needs.

Clarkson isn't a very good player. He seems like a nice guy, but saying that if he hadn't started off with a ten game suspension that things would be different is just wrong.

 

[daveleaf]

Clarkson isn't a very good player. He seems like a nice guy, but saying that if he hadn't started off with a ten game suspension that things would be different is just wrong.

He was very good in Jersey for the last number of years, to the point that many teams were bidding for him.

I don't think it is wrong at all. Not being able to start the season when was planned and under those circumstances made it even tougher. Try it one day, in any profession it is difficult.

These guys are not as bad as people think but to have four to six players not playing up to par tells me the coaching staff is not doing a good job.

 

[Diatomic]

Poulin "this is 8 games in 13 days. It's remarkable. We've been here for 4 years and a lot of good things have happened in that time"

... Umm.. What good things have happened here? We made the playoffs ONCE? And lost in the first round.

16/30 teams make the playoffs every season. Which means the definition of the most average team in the league (15th) makes the playoffs.

Once in four years we've managed to do what an average team can do... And thats considered "a lot of good things have happened in that time"?

No there havent been many good things, at all. Id be ok with missing the playoffs if we were a young team building towards something. But the majority of our roster are guys in their primes on 2nd or 3rd contracts, we have an average farm system, and we have zero capspace.

Sorry Poulin, you guys have accomplished nothing remotely worth noting, and don't even have a particularly bright future barring a trade/prospect heavily going in our favour.

By good things he's trying to say he and his co-workers have given MLSE a large profit despite putting out an embarrassing product on the ice, if that isn't considered a success I don't know what is

 

[Teeder9]

He was very good in Jersey for the last number of years, to the point that many teams were bidding for him.

I don't think it is wrong at all. Not being able to start the season when was planned and under those circumstances made it even tougher. Try it one day, in any profession it is difficult.

These guys are not as bad as people think but to have four to six players not playing up to par tells me the coaching staff is not doing a good job.

How much is Kulemin worth, knowing he is a better defensive player, hits as much, blocks as many shots, has as many 30 goal seasons as Clarkson, is a better skater. Really, the only thing not in Kulemin's repertoire is fighting.

 

[The CyNick]

Another one of my favourite quotes I heard from Dreger last night. Saying that the Leafs were where they expected to be in the standings right now, and that Nonis had told management (Timmy) that this was going to be a rough year.

I'm calling ********. You don't go out and sign Bolland and Clarkson if you don't think you're going to be a playoff team this year.

I actually remember various members of Leafs management saying that in September. They said with Detroit and Columbus coming to the East, Ottawa looked good, etc, that it would be a dog fight to get in.

Also most of the media had us at best in the wild card but most had us on the outside.

That in no way excuses this losing streak or the awful stretch in November and December, but it was a realistic assessment of where the team was and is.

 

[Teeder9]

I actually remember various members of Leafs management saying that in September. They said with Detroit and Columbus coming to the East, Ottawa looked good, etc, that it would be a dog fight to get in.

Also most of the media had us at best in the wild card but most had us on the outside.

That in no way excuses this losing streak or the awful stretch in November and December, but it was a realistic assessment of where the team was and is.

Which is layman's terms means everyone gets a pass. Top to bottom. Carlyle can't be fired if he matched expectations, right? Firing him means he failed. He apparently didn't.