TSN Radio Dave Poulin .. the spin doctor

[The CyNick]

Which is layman's terms means everyone gets a pass. Top to bottom. Carlyle can't be fired if he matched expectations, right? Firing him means he failed. He apparently didn't.

I mean Nonis can do what he wants. You could argue it both ways. You could say the epic bad streaks were too much and justify firing him. Or from his point of view I'm sure he is thinking that he didn't have the horses to play his style. which to me is valid.

 

[thewave]

I mean Nonis can do what he wants. You could argue it both ways. You could say the epic bad streaks were too much and justify firing him. Or from his point of view I'm sure he is thinking that he didn't have the horses to play his style. which to me is valid.

Didn't want Grabo, CMac was no good, Franson is a god, Clarkson was the kind of player Randy wanted. Oh yeah, get him what he wants and when it fails that's not what he wanted.

I can't stop laughing. Oh yeah, unable to make men cover the points and play man to man. The team plays so soft as well compared to last year.

Carlyle is a failure here.

 

[Teeder9]

Didn't want Grabo, CMac was no good, Franson is a god, Clarkson was the kind of player Randy wanted. Oh yeah, get him what he wants and when it fails that's not what he wanted.

I can't stop laughing. Oh yeah, unable to make men cover the points and play man to man. The team plays so soft as well compared to last year.

Carlyle is a failure here.

Yes he is and Nonis is a hypocrite, or in the least, about to become one

 

[leafs in five]

if you didn't expect to compete anyway then let Grabo come back and try to regain some value, maybe after a year or two you can trade him for a small return. and if you're still unhappy with him, buy him out this offseason. you don't expect to contend anyway, and at least this way you don't give up three picks for Bolland. after you buy out Grabo in this scenario, you can use the money to go after Bolland as a UFA if you want him so bad.

it doesn't make sense at all, because nothing the Leafs did this summer and throughout the season suggested that they expected to take a step backward for a year or two.

 

[Durrr]

I can't believe anyone is defending Carlyle here? Not having the players to play his system is not an excuse for this level of a coach, it literally means he sucks. He couldn't adapt a system that our current players could execute with success, the warning signs were there all season. It would be a huge organizational failure if this guy is kept another year, might even cost Nonis his job in the same ay Wilson probably cost Burke his.

 

[egd27]

The goal at the beginning of the season was winning at least one playoff round. Barring a miracle, they have failed.

The question remains is the failure bad enough to have heads rolling, bearing in mind that overly emotional fans do not get to make that decision?

 

[Bardown warrior]

I can't believe anyone is defending Carlyle here? Not having the players to play his system is not an excuse for this level of a coach, it literally means he sucks. He couldn't adapt a system that our current players could execute with success, the warning signs were there all season. It would be a huge organizational failure if this guy is kept another year, might even cost Nonis his job in the same ay Wilson probably cost Burke his.

Your wrong... It's not his fault he doesnt have the HOF caliber defensemen that he was accustom to having in Anahiem... ala Niedermyer-Pronger

Nonis get on it !

In all seriousness it's no coincidence that Carlyle's reputation started to go south once Niedermyer retired and pronger got moved... He's a stubborn idiot whose too ignorant to adjust to todays game.

 

[Morbo]

where is this Dreger quote from?

 

[Durrr]

Your wrong... It's not his fault he doesnt have the HOF caliber defensemen that he was accustom to having in Anahiem... ala Niedermyer-Pronger

Nonis get on it !

In all seriousness it's no coincidence that Carlyle's reputation started to go south once Niedermyer retired and pronger got moved... He's a stubborn idiot whose too ignorant to adjust to todays game.

My point exactly lol, I still think he could find success in the NHL, but on a team like NY Rangers, who are more suited to his style. For the leafs, he's been a train wreck this season and has failed to adjust even the smallest things.

FFS he didn't even move Franson off the 1st PP until the Detroit game when we were down 3-1. Yeah folks, it took 7 losses and the threat of the 8th loss and playoff collapse for him to finally change a problem that most casual fans were aware of a a majority of the season. The guy can't hold veterans accountable, only kids.

 

[GreekLeafer]

so true.

"The Cubs are among the most profitable teams in baseball every year despite being losers on the field. The team posted a winning percentage of .392 the past two seasons yet drew an average of 2.7 million fans to Wrigley Field in 2012 and 2013."

If you replaced cubs with leafs, baseball with hockey and wrigely field with air canada center, its actually very believable

Yeah can't believe I forgot the Cubs. I know examples do exist in the NFL too (Jets, Eagles, Cowboys, etc.) It's hard to believe that their respective managements are as dumb and blind as the Leafs' management though, no matter how poor or unlucky those franchises have been.

 

[GreekLeafer]

Please, Man Utd fans are already turning on ownership and this is the first poor season they've had in 20 years!

Tickets were much like the leafs, dead mans shoes for season tickets, now they're showing up on groupon! Already!! If theres another poor season the stands will be empty

This is what needs to happen at the ACC, stop turning up, stop paying silly money for tickets if the leafs have a down season ticket wise, they'll soon wise up!

Ha, trust me I'm aware of Man U's woes, it brings joy to my Liverpool-loving heart. Maybe my use of Man U as an example was poor, but I do think it's tough to imagine Moyes still being retained next season. Bottom line: when you're one of the big boys, you need to go out and get a big boy manager/coach. And for goodness sake, INVEST IN ALL AVAILABLE RESOURCES. That includes new analytics and a coach/management that is UP TO DATE with the game. Our coach still tries to coach the game as if it's 2007. Different circumstance, way different roster. The team wants old school grit and heart, and yet they bought out/traded the guys who had those traits in spades. Grabo bit a guy! We had our man! Mac could pot 20 and fight! Clarkson fights and doesn't do much else... sickening.

I do agree that the fans need to protest in some form. I don't really condone booing specific players, but management deserves to be called out publically.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

A good read about fans staying away from the arena to force a change within the organization.

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/s...-were-rebuilt-after-fans-stayed-away-20131024

 

[ACC1224]

Please, Man Utd fans are already turning on ownership and this is the first poor season they've had in 20 years!

Tickets were much like the leafs, dead mans shoes for season tickets, now they're showing up on groupon! Already!! If theres another poor season the stands will be empty

This is what needs to happen at the ACC, stop turning up, stop paying silly money for tickets if the leafs have a down season ticket wise, they'll soon wise up!

Wise up and do what?

Are you going to take the lead and give up your season tickets?

 

[Teeder9]

Yeah can't believe I forgot the Cubs. I know examples do exist in the NFL too (Jets, Eagles, Cowboys, etc.) It's hard to believe that their respective managements are as dumb and blind as the Leafs' management though, no matter how poor or unlucky those franchises have been.

Even the Cubs are a little different though. If baseball had as many playoff berths as we have in hockey, they might have won a few times. Take away the miracle Mets, which was really more the Cubs giving away the Pennant, and they've had a few good teams that either didn't make it or were beat by powerhouses that won the WS. They've also been guilty of building to a narrow point instead of a broad level of contention.

 

[GreekLeafer]

Even the Cubs are a little different though. If baseball had as many playoff berths as we have in hockey, they might have won a few times. Take away the miracle Mets, which was really more the Cubs giving away the Pennant, and they've had a few good teams that either didn't make it or were beat by powerhouses that won the WS. They've also been guilty of building to a narrow point instead of a broad level of contention.

The Cubs also have this weird vibe of being the "lovable losers". I abhor that title. I'm just scared the Leafs will get that title in my lifetime somewhere down the line. I don't want my unborn kid in 10-20 years to come in to that.

 

[Pi]

Our management is a joke. It's no surprise that the Leafs suck. If Poulin is thinking and saying all this to the media, obviously Nonis agree with it too.

We're screwed unless we clean house.

They actually have the nerve to say that things have been good in the last 4 years...

 

[HamiltonNHL]

The Cubs also have this weird vibe of being the "lovable losers". I abhor that title. I'm just scared the Leafs will get never shake off that title in my lifetime somewhere down the line. I don't want my unborn kid in 10-20 years to come in to that.

edited for accuracy.

 

[daveleaf]

How much is Kulemin worth, knowing he is a better defensive player, hits as much, blocks as many shots, has as many 30 goal seasons as Clarkson, is a better skater. Really, the only thing not in Kulemin's repertoire is fighting.

Kullemin has never been the same player since he got the crap kicked out of him and broke his nose in Carolina. Everyone here gave Kully over 2 seasons to come around here. Really, it has only been better the second half of this year. That being said, with out all the hoopla and starting off the year with a ten game suspension and then getting injured. Why don't we give this guy another season to see where his game is at? We haven't seen enough of him yet because a lot of players have underperformed. My argument is, which is it, players or system/coaching. I'm all for fresh face behind the bench before we make a rash decision on players.

For the record, I would like to see Kullemin back, Bolland and see what we can do with Clarkson. If he comes back next year and scores 22-25 goals, bangs and fights and is generally a pain in the butt to play against would that change your mind?

I would like to see different coaching because I believe these players are capable of much much more.

 

[Pi]

A good read about fans staying away from the arena to force a change within the organization.

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/s...-were-rebuilt-after-fans-stayed-away-20131024

Toronto is just too big of a hockey market for that to happen. Long list of people in line wanting season tickets, renewal rate is almost 100% and a population of 6 million and growing in and around the GTA.

If one fan stops going, there are another 10 out there ready to take his place.

Toronto will never stop filling up the rink...it's just not going to happen no matter how much they suck...

Boston just doesn't compare to Toronto in that regard.. I would love it if we could see the ACC empty if the Leafs suck but that's wishful thinking.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Toronto is just too big for that to happen. Long list of people in line wanting season tickets, renewal rate is almost 100% and a population of 6 million and growing in and around the GTA.

If one fan stops going, there are another 10 out there ready to take his place.

Toronto will never stop filling up the rink...it's just not going to happen no matter how much they suck...

I understand that. But why are they then so afraid of a rebuild? Why try and squeeze in to the playoffs when a step back and patience is needed to get it right. Even if half the team would be under 23 and prone to long losing streaks, if the talent and the hard work is there I can't see how they can not sell that product. I mean, ppl are lining up to see this half ass job of a team.

 

[Pi]

I understand that. But why are they then so afraid of a rebuild? Why try and squeeze in to the playoffs when a step back and patience is needed to get it right. Even if half the team would be under 23 and prone to long losing streaks, if the talent and the hard work is there I can't see how they can not sell that product. I mean, ppl are lining up to see this half ass job of a team.

I don't get it either. I just think MLSE doesn't care about winning, they just want an average team that can make the playoffs.

Even 3-4 playoff games is 10-15M extra in their pockets.

I would love it if the Leafs had a billionaire OWNER not some corporation like Rogers and Bell.

The Leafs are too big and popular for their own good. Players are idolized even after epic collapses like the one last year because fans crave even a drop of success.

It's frustrating to know that 4-5 years into the rebuild we're no closer to winning than we were in 2008-09.

 

[GreekLeafer]

edited for accuracy.

Damn the truth hurts! I was trying to hide it!

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Damn the truth hurts! I was trying to hide it!

LOL.

It does hurt !

 

[ryno23]

Yeah can't believe I forgot the Cubs. I know examples do exist in the NFL too (Jets, Eagles, Cowboys, etc.) It's hard to believe that their respective managements are as dumb and blind as the Leafs' management though, no matter how poor or unlucky those franchises have been.

Whoa Whoa at least my cubs made the playoffs 3 times in the past 10 years haha. At least they are now in full rebuild mode and full of talent.

But your right teams like the Cubs, Jets, Leafs all have blind loyalty when is comes to fans.

 

[egd27]

Wise up and do what?

Are you going to take the lead and give up your season tickets?

Very easy to encourage others to make a sacrifice.

I continue to find it astounding that the "owners don't care about winning" argument is still brought up daily.