Dave Nonis riding high in return to Vancouver as Leafs GM

[Damisoph]

Is that a core that you think will lead us to a cup ?

Kessel cost us Seguin and Hamilton

Gardiner/Franson haven't done much so far , they might become high quality players but we'll have to wait and see

Lupes-JVR-DP were excellent deals

Burke gets a lot of credit for making good deals at the t/d but every seller tends to score at that time of the year . He also missed on acquiring assets for Grabo/Mac and we ended up getting nothing for them .

Finally, Jared Knight doesn't even register in that deal. Here everyone was saying he'd be a 20g 3rd liner in the NHL

 

[BayStreetBullies*]

Are you freaking kidding me !

Any time the Leafs went on any type of roll Burke would go on a media tour pimping himself and then he'd crawl back into his hole and hide when the team started to lose .

What exactly did he say or do to give you the insane idea that he was "pimping himself" ? You're off your rocker.

 

[mikeo1]

Is that a core that you think will lead us to a cup ?

Kessel cost us Seguin and Hamilton

Gardiner/Franson haven't done much so far , they might become high quality players but we'll have to wait and see

Lupes-JVR-DP were excellent deals

Burke gets a lot of credit for making good deals at the t/d but every seller tends to score at that time of the year . He also missed on acquiring assets for Grabo/Mac and we ended up getting nothing for them .

The team is much better off Kessel than Seguin and Hamilton. Neither of those two can take over games like Kessel does.

Gardiner hasn't done much, but Franson has made a clear impact and so far his shaky defensive play hasn't resulted in any major damage. Even if you don't like him, you'd have difficulty arguing that he's a downgrade from Brett Lebda.

 

[BayStreetBullies*]

Is that a core that you think will lead us to a cup ?

Kessel cost us Seguin and Hamilton

Gardiner/Franson haven't done much so far , they might become high quality players but we'll have to wait and see

What exactly has Hamilton done for the Bruins? And Seguin got traded, so there's that. Leafs won that trade, deal with it.

He also missed on acquiring assets for Grabo/Mac and we ended up getting nothing for them .

Who are these magical assets that would've led us to the promised land?

 

[Delicious Dangles*]

I think Burke does get his fair credit. But I think something that people seem to push under the rug, or go "well WHO was the GM?" is that Nonis was the one who did a lot of the heavy work to GET Phaneuf, Lupul/Gardiner to Toronto. Burke SAID it.

Kessel was all Burke (Nonis himself said if it were him he'd probably not have done it. Which - you know could be a different story, because it doesn't necessarily mean that Seguin would not have worked here).

JVR - all Burke (I don't remember reading anything that Nonis did any leg work on that one. [and again - that was like the steal of a lifetime].

But Phaneuf? right off the bat, Burke was like - "Nonis did most of the work on that trade, I just closed the deal off."

Lupul/Gardiner - Burke again thanked Nonis for doing the majority of the work.

Burke was a very humble guy, and one who went to great lengths to protect his players, and give props to his management team. What "the heavy lifting" or "the leg work" actually was in those scenarios is completely unknown to us.

And it really doesn't matter. For one, Burke had to have some role, and agree to all transactions. He was the GM. Does it matter who was making the calls if they had decided these things together? For another, the GM is ALWAYS the one who gets the credit. Why is it any different for Burke? Heck, we attach draft picks to GM resumes, when in reality, most of that work is from the scouts. Lastly, Nonis is only the GM he is because of Burke. Burke has been there every step of his career and been a mentor and teacher, and brought him into the organization. So any way you want to look at it, we have Burke to thank.

Nonis is doing a great job. I've said this before - I like how he's not just flinging unnecessary money at people. Grabo more than likely would still be a leaf had he been making 1 to 1.5 million dollars less. [Komisarek and Liles would have probably been the two buyouts].

Not flinging unnecessary money at people? Seriously? Clarkson says hello. Bozak says hello. Heck, even Bernier says hello. While the acquisition was cheap and probably a good thing, he was UNNECESSARY, and he had done nothing to deserve 2.9 million.

Grabovski was overpaid as a 3rd-line center, because he was not a 3rd-line center. In a top-6 role, he was worth the money. On the 1st line, he would have been a steal. He is PPG, and on a 5-game point streak this year BTW.

whatever you want to say about his point production etc - there was no way that Grabo could have stayed at 5.4 million and then go to Kadri and Bozak and go "so, even though you have more points, and all of that other than Grabo - you have to take less money, kthnxbye."

Yeah, actually, you can. All 3 were in different situations. Kadri was an RFA, with 1 year under his belt. Bozak has been given all the opportunities in the world since he entered this league, and has still only put up mediocre production. He shouldn't have been signed anyway.

Did Gunnarsson go to Nonis and say "I'm a top-pairing Defenseman. Look at Phaneuf is getting. I want 6.5 mil+."? No, of course not, because that theory is ridiculous. Just as ridiculous as Kadri and Bozak demanding 5.5+ because Grabovski was making it. Grabovski had a history of production, was a top UFA, and was the driving force on his line.

But more importantly what's really telling to me: Nonis is prepared to lose his job - to ensure that he doesn't screw the future of the team he's working for. Think about that for a moment. Nonis got fired for not getting Brad Richards, which would have meant dealing Schnider and a lot of other assets/picks to "help" Vancouver.

How many times in Toronto have we SEEN GMs (Quinn/JFJ) make moves (albeit due to the board) slap mud on a sinking ship to help us limp into playoffs.

So for Nonis to know where the wind was blowing - and refuse to screw the team over - that speaks VOLUMES, because you know the pressure here is like 1000x worse.

And what does Nonis do/say about it.
"If the player comes to me and tells me he wants to stay in Toronto, I will do my best to make it happen to the betterment of the team."

He puts the ownus on the player AND himself to make a better Toronto Maple Leafs franchise.

Heck. Yeah.

So did Burke, who was the one who changed around the whole culture of the team to be like that. Not sure your point. The dark times of JFJ are gone, and were gone before Nonis.

There are a few 1A-1B tandems in the League that work. (St Louis comes to mind instantly).

St Louis is able to have a tandem because BOTH players are on cheap contracts. The same reason we can this year. St Louis will not have that tandem next year, and likely neither will we, when Reimer is looking for his well-deserved payday.

This is not a slam against Scrivens in the least (considering he is doing very well in LA). but when elite, quality ANYTHING is available - you get it. End of story, period. I don't know what more can be said when the GM of LA was pissed off that he had to trade Bernier (but had to because he made him a promise), the FANS were like Bernier was the #1 reason they made the playoffs last year (when Quick was injured) the media (who tends to ANY trade we do - said we pretty much did something great), that people are still quibbling that we got a fantastic goalie.

Because once again it works like this
A: Reimer is awesome
B: Bernier is awesome
C: if one sucks - the other one is good enough to steal a game (see: Ottawa game)
D: it's very unlikely BOTH will suck at the same time
E: one of the two can net us some pretty high end draft picks

so either way - the Leafs are looking good and sitting pretty.

I agree, when you get the opportunity to get somebody elite, you take it. That's why I loved the Kessel trade from the start.

HOWEVER, Bernier was not yet elite. He may very well become elite, but he was FAR FAR from a sure thing. And we already had a young goalie putting up elite numbers.

Nobody is complaining that we have 2 great goalies this year. I would probably do that trade again. The problem is, partly because of the cap problems Nonis created, and partly because of 2.9 million dollar contract he gave Bernier, this will only last 1 year. So I guess the question will be answered when we see the return on the goalie we trade.

I don't understand why people think Bolland is going to bolt this summer. (esp. because it seems that people think Nonis won't find the money to keep Bolland). Bolland is getting a lot of chances he didn't seem to get in Chicago. He can play on the 2nd line, he's getting PP time, PK time, and as well as the crucial minutes like he's used to. And again - considering the second the cup was presented, Nonis called Stan Bowen to say "I want Bolland." makes one think that Nonis did not do this for a 1 year bandaid.

I don't think Bolland will Bolt this summer. I think we keep him, and hope we do. The problem is, that money is going to come from somewhere. It probably means we lose Kulemin, who is a very similar player to Bolland. So we essentially gave up assets to make our winger a center.

Bolland will also probably come more expensive (and more than a 3rd-line center should cost).

He was given opportunities in Chicago, even the 2nd-line center spot with Kane. This is not a Lupul/JVR situation where they were getting shafted by their old team.

as I doubt Gauthier will be up here any time soon - i doubt that makes Bozak redundant.
the options were this

A: Weiss - no thank you
B: shove Kadri up there - which is going to end up anyway - Randy's giving him more responsibility
C: Grabovski
D: Bozak

I get people loathe/hate him whatever, but I like option D better. and I LIKED Grabovski.

I bet Gauthier is up on our team within Bozak's 5-year contract in at least a 3rd-line role. But what I meant by him was, it's not like we have nobody in the pipeline to fill Bozak's role.

The best setup would have been:

Grabovski
Kadri
Bolland
McClement

and when Kadri was ready:

Kadri
Grabovski
Bolland
McClement

Two legit top-6 centers. The perfect #3 center. And the perfect #4 center.
Now we are going to be forced to push our perfect #3 center, Bolland, up the lineup, ruining our shutdown line AND making us overpay for him.

I'm not saying the guy is Gary Roberts, but I think the mantra is - if they can get 4 really good years out of Clarkson - 5-6-7 is a wash. And I think in a cap-era, you are going to have to wrap your head around getting some players means you are going to get some lengths in term that sound weird but you're paying for the quality of the KEY years.

The mantra should NEVER EVER EVER be "worry about now, later will take care of itself". That is the sign of a BAD GM, and I sincerely hope that that was not Nonis' mindset. In year 5, the year you claim it won't matter, JVR and Lupul will be up for big raises. And no the cap will NOT save us, because salaries rise accordingly.

5.25 is already too much for the KEY years. When they are no longer key years, this contract will hurt badly. And I like Clarkson. But that was a killer. Especially with multiple prospects who can fill his role coming through the pipeline.

I truthfully don't understand how people always bemoan that people don't want to sign in Toronto, then they DO sign in Toronto and then bemoan the fact that they spent money. There is a huge chunk of our team - love them - that doesn't go to the front of the net. JVR does, Raymond kind of does, and Lupul does. the rest kind of drive TO the net, but you see it on the powerplay (In Calgary). Randy is screaming on the bench "WHO IS AT THE FRONT OF THE NET!" that's Clarkson's job. AND he's got a great board game, and he can piss people off, AND he brings leadership, AND he's got some SCF experience.

he's necessary. the end.

JVR already stands in front of the net on our PP, and is one of the best in the league up-close. Before we got him, I may have agreed.

You don't pay 5.25 for 7 years for JUST intangibles.

We also do not play a style of game where you want guys to just stand at the front of the net, except on the PP (and you could argue our 2nd PP unit does not even play like that anyway). And we do have guys who are willing to do that, and many guys who will drive to the net, which is more important than just standing there.

He was not necessary. The end.

But. HE. WASN'T. Garbs and Pi posted this several times. Grabovski wasn't instantly demoted to the third line. That's where KADRI was. I don't mean to be so blunt about this - but Grabo sucked last year. He sucked bananas. Kadri outplayed him and was moved, and in his new role, Grabo couldn't/wasn't able to perform well.

At the very beginning of the season, Grabovski had JVR and Kulemin on his line. The line actually did very well. They were great at holding possession in the offensive zone, and Grabovski had good production.

The entire list of Grabovski's linemates after this point are as follows (aside from 0.83% with kessel/JVR, which was also productive, leading to some notable goals):

McClement
Kulemin
Komarov
Macarthur
Frattin
Hamilton

A group of rookies, offensively inept forwards, and a struggling and inconsistent Macarthur. Not a group that you are going to put up god numbers with. You're right in the fact that Grabovski was given a short chance at the beginning of the season, but people forget that he actually did well during that time, and got garbage to work with afterward.

This is all beside the point. YOU DON'T BUY OUT A PLAYER AFTER 40ISH BAD GAMES. I don't care how bad he was.

Bolland can. He can play 2nd line minutes, he can play third line minutes. and to this I'd just like to point out something:

Bolland is irrelevant. I too would rather have Bolland over Grabovski, but they are to fill different roles. It is Grabovski over Bozak every day and twice on Sundays, especially to fill a top-6 role.

has anyone noticed - or realized - that the Leafs have only blown 1 lead that was carried into the third period that resulted in a Loss? (Carolina). I'm not saying that ALL the blown leads we ever had last season was Grabos fault, but let's also call a sugar cookie a sugar cookie - despite our "defensive" failings we aren't blowing leads.

Has anyone noticed that we usually have a considerable lead going into the 3rd? Has anybody noticed that we have lost leads, but we tend to just score again at will anyway? Has anybody noticed that we actually have a shutdown line this year and we didn't last year, and nobody is arguing against that? Has anybody noticed that we are 14 games into the season? How many blown leads do you expect with only 4 losses on the season?

And this also goes back to my earlier statement: You can't blame Nonis for buying out Grabo without putting the ownus on Burke for giving him that MASSIVE contract extension. that's what hurt the team.

Grabovski's contract wasn't bad. His contract was bad for the role he was put in, but there was an open spot last offseason where his contract would not have been out of place. They chose Bozak for that spot, which was a bad long-term and short-term move.

and the Komisarek/Liles thing: liles is still tradeable (the cap is low, which is why i feel there is no movement). someone broke it down that it worked out better to keep Liles over Komisarek.

Liles WOULD HAVE been trade-able, if the cap was higher this year. Or if he was playing this year. The problem is, it wasn't and he isn't. And now Liles will not be tradeable.

Liles is only better to keep if a regular buyout was not used on Komisarek. Which we all know it would and should have been used. Komisarek's buyout would have been cheap and quick, and opened up more money for these crucial years.

and Brian Burke would give David Nonis the credit he was due. End of story.
(as Nonis gives Burke).

Yes, Burke would. And yes, Nonis does. Nonis understands just how much Burke has done for this team.

The problem is the people on here appear to not understand this.

 

[Delicious Dangles*]

Are you freaking kidding me !

Any time the Leafs went on any type of roll Burke would go on a media tour pimping himself and then he'd crawl back into his hole and hide when the team started to lose .

Overbearing media pounding him with questions =/= media self-pimping tour.

And he actually did talk when they were losing, and most of what he was talking about when winning was giving props to the players and management team, not himself.

 

[Delicious Dangles*]

Is that a core that you think will lead us to a cup ?

Including the other pieces such as Rielly, and assuming expected development, yes, that is easily a core that can lead us to a cup.

He also missed on acquiring assets for Grabo/Mac and we ended up getting nothing for them .

Actually, Nonis missed on acquiring assets for Grabovski and Macarthur. They were still on the team when Burke was fired.

 

[firstemperor]

The only thing that contradicts this is signing Clarkson to a premium and setting a terrible precedent moving forward. I get pissed off just thinking about it.

 

[rojac]

Are you freaking kidding me !

Any time the Leafs went on any type of roll Burke would go on a media tour pimping himself and then he'd crawl back into his hole and hide when the team started to lose .

Burke was a good interview. So, all the media outlets wanted to talk to him. If he turned them down, the story suddenly becomes "Leafs GM refuses to talk. What's Burke hiding?" or something similar.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

Thank you Nonis but most of all thank you burke. I miss you man.

 

[dimi78]

You know what's crazy the amount of misinformed people there was during the Burke era cause of one trade that brought this team it's best player it had since Sundin at the tender age of 21 years old as a quick fix... The media blasted this trade and were praising the Oilers for DOING IT RIGHT LOL were they ever wrong...

Now we sit with a new GM Burke's right hand man and all he's doing and SAYING is the same things Burke was. IT'S THE SAME BLUE PRINT and THE SAME PHILOSOPHY.

 

[Al14]

Nonis should be embarrassed by that performance. So much for him riding high. LOL

 

[Ace88*]

Guy has his work cut out for him this summer. Now that Phil's signed, Bozak's gotta go. Clarkson's gotta go. We need their cap space to resign our guys wayyyy more than we need either of them.

 

[Mess]

Interesting stat here, Bolland was in the 2010 SCF, Raymond in 2011, Clarkson/Bernier in 2012 and Bolland again in 2013, talk about bringing in guys who know what it takes, great job Nonis!

Bolland Clarkson and Raymond. A whole line (a good one at that) which we did not have last year!

You simply can't have too much playoff experience.

 

[Mimico]

Guy has his work cut out for him this summer. Now that Phil's signed, Bozak's gotta go. Clarkson's gotta go. We need their cap space to resign our guys wayyyy more than we need either of them.

Its only been 5 games and you call yourself "The Voice of Reason"?

 

[Ace88*]

Its only been 5 games and you call yourself "The Voice of Reason"?

Clarkson's not a very good hockey player, let alone signed at that much for that long. I never wanted him in the first place and that garbage contract might cost us a superior player in Raymond, Bolland, or Kulemin.

 

[Neuron]

It just goes to show you how much difference a new GM can make, Burke kept Kadri from reaching his potential for as long as he could and it sent ripple effects throughout the team.

 

[Stats01]

Nonis should be embarrassed by that performance. So much for him riding high. LOL

2-1 on a West Coast swing I'll take it. Guys like you really need to understand that teams won't have it every game. Our trend so far as been win 3 lose 1, win 3 lose 2, win 1, lose 1, win 3 lose 1. We're playing great, and most of the time we're getting W's. Nonis has nothing to be embarrassed about. A Jet fan last night said Detroit should be embarrassed last night after they lost to Winnipeg on their last game of a 4 game West swing...They went 3-1 there is nothing to be embarrassed about.

 

[MajorityRules*]

Thank you Burke for putting Nonis on the right track. Hopefully he doesn't screw it up.

 

[Delicious Dangles*]

It just goes to show you how much difference a new GM can make, Burke kept Kadri from reaching his potential for as long as he could and it sent ripple effects throughout the team.

Burke had ZERO effect on whether Kadri stayed up or down. It was purely a coach decision, which has been pointed out time and time again. If you want to blame anybody, blame Wilson, HOWEVER, blaming anybody would be stupid, as Kadri NEEDED that development time to become the player he is.

Kadri would have played last year regardless of who was GM.

 

[KuleminFan41]

What exactly has Hamilton done for the Bruins? And Seguin got traded, so there's that. Leafs won that trade, deal with it.

They won the cup with Seguin in the line up as a contributor. They won the deal until the Leafs win a cup of their own.

 

[Kyle Doobas*]

They won the cup with Seguin in the line up as a contributor.

Not much of one, in either of their runs to the SCF. You don't think they could have won with Kessel in the lineup instead of Seguin? Did the Bruins 'win' the Joe Thornton trade as well?

 

[Delicious Dangles*]

They won the cup with Seguin in the line up as a contributor. They won the deal until the Leafs win a cup of their own.

They won ONE GAME because of Seguin (and in reality, he played terrible despite picking up those points, probably part of the reason they still almost lost that game), and the coach still didn't even trust him enough that game to play him more than 13:31 in sheltered minutes. This is after being healthy-scratched.

It is foolish to think Kessel or really ANY player put in a top-6 role, could not have influenced the team more over that run. Also didn't contribute defensively, physically, or any other way.

He has literally done nothing for them in the 40 playoff games since. 4 goals in 40 playoffs games.

Bruins with Kessel = Modern Dynasty, and probably 2-3 cups.

 

[KuleminFan41]

Not much of one, in either of their runs to the SCF. You don't think they could have won with Kessel in the lineup instead of Seguin? Did the Bruins 'win' the Joe Thornton trade as well?

3 goals 4 assists in 13 games isn't much of a contributor? I'm sure Boston would have done just fine with Kessel, but that doesn't make the fact any less true.

What does Joe Thornton's trade have to do with what was said? If you want to look at it, Joe's been to the conference finals twice winning a whopping 1 game .Meanwhile ,trading Joe opened up for Boston signing their next captain in Chara who went on to win a cup.

 

[KuleminFan41]

They won ONE GAME because of Seguin (and in reality, he played terrible despite picking up those points, probably part of the reason they still almost lost that game), and the coach still didn't even trust him enough that game to play him more than 13:31 in sheltered minutes. This is after being healthy-scratched.

It is foolish to think Kessel or really ANY player put in a top-6 role, could not have influenced the team more over that run. Also didn't contribute defensively, physically, or any other way.

He has literally done nothing for them in the 40 playoff games since. 4 goals in 40 playoffs games.

Bruins with Kessel = Modern Dynasty

No need to have underlines and caps, I can read perfectly fine. I get it, people are upset about Boston winning the cup, but you can't go around and ignoring what happened. Kessel at the time of Boston's cup was not the same player we know him today. He was more selfish and was a shoot first pass later player.The same reputation that sticks with him today no kidding. Maybe Kessel could have influenced the team better but theres no guarantee because of how he was as a player back then. Maybe they get eliminated in the first round, or maybe they sweep every team

You're right though, Seguin did nothing after! winning the cup. Something people miss in the whole argument. He won the cup in his rookie year. Until the Leafs win a cup, we lost the trade.