Datsyuk vs Fedorov

[Buck Naked]

Datsyuk was a smart player defensively and great at stealing the puck, but overall his defense was rather mediocre to weak in many aspects. Fedorov could have become a fairly decent defenseman full time, better than a Phil Housley.

Is Datsyuk the anti-Erik Karlsson? Datsyuk gets cred for being one of the best defensive forwards of all time based on some aspects where he excells, which makes people overlook the rest. Erik Karlsson gets discredited for his entire defense based one some aspects where he's flawed while overlooking the defensive areas where he's always been great.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

Don’t recall laziness ever being an issue for Dastyuk, he was always known for his effort and consistency.

He avoided going to dirty areas at times when the game got pretty chippy and physical. Not sure what the right word for it would be, but it’s a shame because his neutral zone takeaway abilities showed what a wizard he would be stripping the puck away from a player at any part of the ice.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

Is Datsyuk the anti-Erik Karlsson? Datsyuk gets cred for being one of the best defensive forwards of all time based on some aspects where he excells, which makes people overlook the rest. Erik Karlsson gets discredited for his entire defense based one some aspects where he's flawed while overlooking the defensive areas where he's always been great.

I think people just recognize that EK isn’t the best defensive option on his team, and just like EK needed Methot to do the heavy lifting on PK and be a stay at home D, Datsyuk needed Zetterberg to carry heavier PK load time as well as be the shut down guy for opposing top line players on the other team.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Prefer Fedorov quite a bit personally, but I think both are a bit overrated in general.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Prefer Fedorov quite a bit personally, but I think both are a bit overrated in general.

I was going to say the exact same thing. Both were very very good players, but both left me wanting a little more considering their raw skill level. Between the two, if I were starting a team I’d draft Fedorov.

 

[Despote]

Is Datsyuk the anti-Erik Karlsson? Datsyuk gets cred for being one of the best defensive forwards of all time based on some aspects where he excells, which makes people overlook the rest. Erik Karlsson gets discredited for his entire defense based one some aspects where he's flawed while overlooking the defensive areas where he's always been great.

Datsyuk's ability to suppress chances and goals against was all-time elite.

 

[Regal]

Datsyuk's ability to suppress chances and goals against was all-time elite.

Yea and Karlsson is the reverse where he’s consistently given up more goals when he’s on the ice. There might be some truth to the idea of overlooking aspects of their defensive games, but ultimately their results were wildly disparate

 

[authentic]

Yea and Karlsson is the reverse where he’s consistently given up more goals when he’s on the ice. There might be some truth to the idea of overlooking aspects of their defensive games, but ultimately their results were wildly disparate

Also people will point to the teams they were on but look no further than Datsyuk in 2014-15 at age 36 once Lidstrom was retired and he played with Helm and Abdelkader as his regular linemates. Best defensive metrics in the league even slightly better than Bergeron at the time and he did it while being 6th in the league in points per game. That might be the most underrated 35+ year old season in NHL history. Karlsson is not even in the same area code as Datsyuk defensively even ignoring positions altogether.

 

[Albatros]

Also people will point to the teams they were on but look no further than Datsyuk in 2014-15 at age 36 once Lidstrom was retired and he played with Helm and Abdelkader as his regular linemates. Best defensive metrics in the league even slightly better than Bergeron at the time and he did it while being 6th in the league in points per game. That might be the most underrated 35+ year old season in NHL history. Karlsson is not even in the same area code as Datsyuk defensively even ignoring positions altogether.

He was playing with Abdelkader and Zetterberg or Helm and Tatar that year, not Helm and Abdelkader simultaneously.

 

[Johnsie19]

Datsyuk was a smart player defensively and great at stealing the puck, but overall his defense was rather mediocre to weak in many aspects. Fedorov could have become a fairly decent defenseman full time, better than a Phil Housley.

Yes of course Datsyuk the 3 time Selke winner. Best defensive forward of his generation was quite average defensively. Career xDef 77.7 was rather mediocre. You may be right about Fedorov playing defense. But they both mostly played center and that is the style of defending we're looking for, not skating backwards.

 

[Johnsie19]

Actual results matter though. It's one thing to pace for 20 points in the post-season. It's another thing to actually do it.

True but was Glen Anderson better than Ovechkin? Cause he has about 70 more playoff points. The context of the team you played for matters. Detroit of the 90s early 2000s was one of the best teams ever assembled. The Datsyuk yrs were strong but no where near equivalent. Fedorov played with probably 7-8 HOFers.

I don't have a horse in this race, but Point Shares (and especially Defensive Point Shares) is a poorly designed stat. I genuinely don't think that the creators understand how to evaluate hockey players. Here's a thread where the design flaws are discussed in detail.

Total accept there are flaws in numbers it's just one proxy. And there aren't many from the Fedorov era to go by so it's worth a look.

 

[Albatros]

Yes of course Datsyuk the 3 time Selke winner. Best defensive forward of his generation was quite average defensively. Career xDef 77.7 was rather mediocre. You may be right about Fedorov playing defense. But they both mostly played center and that is the style of defending we're looking for, not skating backwards.

Datsyuk had a low center of gravity that he could use to his advantage, but his physical play was below average for a defensive player and besides excellent stickwork he frequently lacked tools when it came to containing opponents. In the second half of his career he was increasingly avoiding contact and still injured every spring.

 

[authentic]

Datsyuk had a low center of gravity that he could use to his advantage, but his physical play was below average for a defensive player and besides excellent stickwork he frequently lacked tools when it came to containing opponents. In the second half of his career he was increasingly avoiding contact and still injured every spring.

This really doesn’t sound like you watched Datsyuk at all. He frequently lacked tools when it came to containing opponents?

He also wasn’t a bad hitter at all, and he was a lot stronger than he looked especially when it came to protecting the puck.

 

[Albatros]

This really doesn’t sound like you watched Datsyuk at all. He frequently lacked tools when it came to containing opponents?

He also wasn’t a bad hitter at all, and he was a lot stronger than he looked especially when it came to protecting the puck.

He had strong legs and a low center of gravity, but that was of limited use defensively. With the puck he could use these tools very well, but that's besides the point. Defensively he could steal the puck and if that failed he was frequently out of answers, always had someone else in his line able to bail him out.

 

[authentic]

He had strong legs and a low center of gravity, but that was of limited use defensively. With the puck he could use these tools very well, but that's besides the point. Defensively he could steal the puck and if that failed he was frequently out of answers, always had someone else in his line able to bail him out.

Uhhh, no.

 

[Albatros]

Uhhh, no.

Just look at his regular linemates with the same coach that trusted Zetterberg with Hudler and Filppula.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Defensively he could steal the puck and if that failed he was frequently out of answers, always had someone else in his line able to bail him out.

"He could take away pucks but if he didn't take away pucks then he wasn't taking away pucks."

Man what lol

 

[Evergreen]

Tough call. Went with Fedorov due to longevity. Could go either way. I actually think Fedorov was a tiny bit overrated and Datsyuk was underrated. But both were great and I miss having them in the league.

 

[TheAngryHank]

Fedorov was the best player in the world when he wanted to be.
The most complete player ever.
Best skater ever before McDavid.

 

[Johnsie19]

Datsyuk had a low center of gravity that he could use to his advantage, but his physical play was below average for a defensive player and besides excellent stickwork he frequently lacked tools when it came to containing opponents. In the second half of his career he was increasingly avoiding contact and still injured every spring.

I do seem to remember Datsyuk often being hobbled or slightly injured a lot.

He threw a lot more hits than Fedorov anyway, not that that is really that relevant to defensive play. It might be and might not be. Usually when you are making a hit you are taking yourself out of position.

In terms of Point Shares Datsyuk has more OPS and DPS than Fedorov in his career in like 300 less games as well.

 

[Albatros]

In terms of Point Shares Datsyuk has more OPS and DPS than Fedorov in his career in like 300 less games as well.

Mm? That's a gimmicky baseball stat, but according to the HR authors overall it's Fedorov 125.6 vs. 111.2 Datsyuk, OPS Fedorov 96.0 vs. 82.1 Datsyuk and DPS Fedorov 29.6 vs. 29.1 Datsyuk.

 

[Johnsie19]

Mm? That's a gimmicky baseball stat, but according to the HR authors overall it's Fedorov 125.6 vs. 111.2 Datsyuk, OPS Fedorov 96.0 vs. 82.1 Datsyuk and DPS Fedorov 29.6 vs. 29.1 Datsyuk.

Oh youre right. I was looking just at the Detroit yrs for Fedorov. They are basically dead even if you take it like that. Slight edge to Datsyuk defensively.


Datsyuk GP 953 OPS 82.1 DPS 29.1 TPS 111.2
Fedorov GP 908 OPS 82. 0 DPS 22.3 TPS 104.2

 

[eviohh26]

Datsyuk had a low center of gravity that he could use to his advantage, but his physical play was below average for a defensive player and besides excellent stickwork he frequently lacked tools when it came to containing opponents. In the second half of his career he was increasingly avoiding contact and still injured every spring.

What are you even talking about. Talk about speaking on a player you never watched.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

True but was Glen Anderson better than Ovechkin? Cause he has about 70 more playoff points. The context of the team you played for matters. Detroit of the 90s early 2000s was one of the best teams ever assembled. The Datsyuk yrs were strong but no where near equivalent. Fedorov played with probably 7-8 HOFers.

Anderson is a Hall of Famer but OV is/was better. Context is that Anderson played on a lot of good teams and never had to be the guy. Even during the 2018 run, OV tied the goal scoring record and has scored around 0.5 gpg in the playoffs for his career.

 

[TMLegend]

Fedorov might be a slightly better player, but I'd much rather have Datsyuk if I was starting a team. Datsyuk was a consummate professional in every way. Fedorov, unfortunately had a more complicated relationship with the team that drafted him. I also think Datsyuk did more with less overall.