Olympics: Datsyuk says this medal means more than the Stanley Cup

[KarmaPolice]

Didn't read the whole thread but I don't get how he could find this being more meaningful than his Cup wins. I could understand if it was best against the best like past Olympics but this was a fairly stacked Russian team against a bunch of team with former NHLers and minor league or Euro league players. Not exactly the best competition.

Yeah, I'd say winning a SC is multitudes harder than winning an Olympic gold medal on a stacked team relative to the competition. Kinda funny how the Germans were able to make the gold medal game close when you compare the incredible gap in talent (not that Canada hasn't had trouble scoring against them, too, in the past). But hey, whatever. Dats can think whatever he wants, even if it's wrong.

 

[wildandwoolly]

Datsyuk didn't even win it for his country. And it was basically KHL all-stars vs second & third tier players. He still got a gold, and that's awesome for him, but the fact that his gold will have 2 asterisks on it, would probably detract a little bit of the glory for me.

 

[Pestilence]

Datsyuk is probably the classiest player "OAR" has produced.

But, this is kind of like Durant winning an NBA Championship. HUGE ASTERISK next to that one, Pavel.

Durant still won against the best in the best league in the world. Olympics hockey isn't really comparable this year.

But Datsyuk saying this doesn't surprise me at all.

 

[Hanji]

My goodness. It’s priceless how a simple opinion from Datsyuk can elicit a titlewave of insecure posters, all making the effort to post ad nauseam about how meaningless Datsyuk’s achievement is. So salty.

 

[Vladnyc]

I think that people are misunderstanding a few things.

1)Neither Pavel nor any Russians fans are saying that this Olympic gold makes Russia the best. What they are saying is that on a personal level, to a Russian, winning some domestic hockey cup, no matter how elite the competition, will never match up to winning Olympic gold for Russia. Especially when they haven't won gold since 1992. Especially when you are the Captain. Especially in this political climate. Achieving something for a corporate owned team is nothing compared to the honor of winning Olympic gold for your country. I think that last part is what really goes over people's head in North America. In America, personal achievement via some corporation is the apex of life. But what you must never forget is that to those that don't have the American mentality, Club Hockey is a business and Olympic hockey is a honored duty.

2)North Americans are really overemphasizing the prestige of the Stanley Cup outside of North America. No one outside of NA dreamed about winning it as a kid. Especially those of Pavel's generation. And when you start looking outside of hockey fans, 95% of the world has no idea what the Stanely Cup is, but everyone knows what Olympic gold is.

 

[sdf]

talking like a true commie product... what a dissapointment.

no need put that cretin word without any reason when you speak about some russian. It is f***ing annoyng

 

[WJCJ]

I think that people are misunderstanding a few things.

1)Neither Pavel nor any Russians fans are saying that this Olympic gold makes Russia the best. What they are saying is that on a personal level, to a Russian, winning some domestic hockey cup, no matter how elite the competition, will never match up to winning Olympic gold for Russia. Especially when they haven't won gold since 1992. Especially when you are the Captain. Especially in this political climate. Achieving something for a corporate owned team is nothing compared to the honor of winning Olympic gold for your country. I think that last part is what really goes over people's head in North America. In America, personal achievement via some corporation is the apex of life. But what you must never forget is that to those that don't have the American mentality, Club Hockey is a business and Olympic hockey is a honored duty.

2)North Americans are really overemphasizing the prestige of the Stanley Cup outside of North America. No one outside of NA dreamed about winning it as a kid. Especially those of Pavel's generation. And when you start looking outside of hockey fans, 95% of the world has no idea what the Stanely Cup is, but everyone knows what Olympic gold is.

It's great that Datsyuk won and it means so much to him. It doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks.

As far as North Americans overemphasizing the the prestige of the Stanley Cup outside of North America, well, let's not pretend that the NHL is not the absolute best hockey league and winning the Stanley cup is the most prestigious championship in all of hockey. None of us in North America are going to say that winning a football/soccer championship on North America is as good as winning the world cup because that is the best football/soccer in the world, you aren't going to get many North Americans claiming otherwise. As far as no one dreaming of winning the cup. that isn't the point, being champion of the best league and being able to say that they are the best is the point. They all want to be able to say that and they can't unless they win the Stanley cup. It is the most prestigious hockey championship.

 

[Aspirine]

The opposing teams love it too when they pound us 15-1 in my ball hockey house league.

 

[The Noot]

My goodness. It’s priceless how a simple opinion from Datsyuk can elicit a titlewave of insecure posters, all making the effort to post ad nauseam about how meaningless Datsyuk’s achievement is. So salty.

HF (or moreso the internet) in a nutshell

 

[beowulf]

I think that people are misunderstanding a few things.

1)Neither Pavel nor any Russians fans are saying that this Olympic gold makes Russia the best. What they are saying is that on a personal level, to a Russian, winning some domestic hockey cup, no matter how elite the competition, will never match up to winning Olympic gold for Russia. Especially when they haven't won gold since 1992. Especially when you are the Captain. Especially in this political climate. Achieving something for a corporate owned team is nothing compared to the honor of winning Olympic gold for your country. I think that last part is what really goes over people's head in North America. In America, personal achievement via some corporation is the apex of life. But what you must never forget is that to those that don't have the American mentality, Club Hockey is a business and Olympic hockey is a honored duty.

2)North Americans are really overemphasizing the prestige of the Stanley Cup outside of North America. No one outside of NA dreamed about winning it as a kid. Especially those of Pavel's generation. And when you start looking outside of hockey fans, 95% of the world has no idea what the Stanely Cup is, but everyone knows what Olympic gold is.

I think you are wrong about a lot of things in this post.

Not sure what you mean with political climate...especially with regards to hockey.
You really don't know Canadians then, winning a medal and representing Canada international is a huge source of pride for anyone who gets to do so. Whether the U18, U20, world championships, Olympics in men's and women's hockey or any other sport for that matter. Some corporate apex? Please...

Sorry but the Stanley Cup is the most prestigious team award in hockey when there is no best-on-best Olympics, period. 95% of the world does not know what the Cup is? Please, there is an estimated 7.6B people in the world, so 5% of that would be 380M. The US population alone is about 327M and I would guess at least half know what the Cup is even if they don't know every detail about the NHL playoffs etc. so that's 163.5M. Add Canada where everyone has heard of the Cup, 37M, and you are already at 200M even if you are really lowballing how many people of the about 880M in Europe and Russia that know about the NHL and the Cup, say 25% that's still 220M and you are at 400M without Asian, Australia, Africa, etc.

So the NHL and the Cup might not be the best known sport, far from it, but it's not as unknown as you say. Even among Canadian players, some find winning the Olympics a bigger deal than winning the Cup. Really ends up being an individual choice.

 

[Vladnyc]

It's great that Datsyuk won and it means so much to him. It doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks.

As far as North Americans overemphasizing the the prestige of the Stanley Cup outside of North America, well, let's not pretend that the NHL is not the absolute best hockey league and winning the Stanley cup is the most prestigious championship in all of hockey. None of us in North America are going to say that winning a football/soccer championship on North America is as good as winning the world cup because that is the best football/soccer in the world, you aren't going to get many North Americans claiming otherwise. As far as no one dreaming of winning the cup. that isn't the point, being champion of the best league and being able to say that they are the best is the point. They all want to be able to say that and they can't unless they win the Stanley cup. It is the most prestigious hockey championship.

If you want to relate it to soccer, think of it like this. The EPL is the most elite league in soccer, winning it is amazing, but it's nothing compared to England winning the world cup.

 

[Vladnyc]

The opposing teams love it too when they pound us 15-1 my ball hockey house league.

You guys should practice more.

 

[sandysan]

Pretty much anyone not living in America grows up watching the Olympics and for them thats the big sport tournament in the world.
Winning Gold is special no matter what. To talk it down is just ignorance.

or the opposite is the crassest form of idolatry. your choice

 

[WJCJ]

If you want to relate it to soccer, think of it like this. The EPL is the most elite league in soccer, winning it is amazing, but it's nothing compared to England winning the world cup.

That doesn't really work, the Stanley cup is the most prestigious championship in hockey, it just is. It's obvious that some people place winning a gold medal in the Olympics above that, but it is the best league and winning that championship is much more prestigious than winning a gold medal against players who aren't good enough to play in the NHL.

I am not debating that some players desire to win a gold medal more than a cup, I am debating that a Stanley cup is more prestigious than a gold medal won against lesser competition.

 

[Aspirine]

You guys should practice more.

Tell me about it. We suck hard.

 

[varano]

lolol what a loser

 

[hairylikebear]

What? How is NHL hockey more individual than Olympic or Russian hockey? You don't think Canadians are mad happy when someone wins for Canada? Makes no sense.

Nationalism is valuing the state above yourself and individualism is the opposite. Soviet Russia was a nationalist culture, and while Russia has become much more individualistic since the collapse, there are still some nationalist tendencies. One of those is the sentiment that the greatest thing a hockey player can do in their career is represent their country. Obviously Canadians are ecstatic when their team wins it for their country, but an individuals worth is still largely determined by their personal achievements and less by their contribution to the national team. In any case, international victory is a major individual achievement to North Americans whenever the tournament is best on best.

I did not in any way mean individualistic as an insult, and it doesn't mean the same thing as selfish or self-centered. Rather, I believe you have to understand a nationalist culture before you can begin to understand why it is perfectly reasonable for Datsyuk to feel the way that he does. That's also why Russians will always take the opportunity to play in the Worlds as long as they are healthy enough to play at a high level, whereas Canadian and American players will tend to pass it up so they can heal their late season wounds.

I sense a lot of animosity in this thread towards Datsyuk and Russians in general which I feel stems from a lack of cultural understanding. As a native of Russia that lives in the States I just hoped I could shed some light on that.

Edit: Calling modern Russia a nationalist culture is lazy phrasing. It would be more precise to call them an individualist culture with nationalist leanings.

 

[Fixxer]

He already won the Stanley Cup a few times, so I guess it ain't as special now. He hadn't got a Gold Medal before so it sure was a different feel. Olympics are about countries, although there was that thing where it was not an official "Russia" team, but that's another story. Happy for Dats! Awesome player. Among his last "honors" as I don't see him win anything else than maybe a Gargarin cup... anyway, the KHL championship trophy.

 

[Castle8130]

some salty Canadiens here eh? It's not like they had Malkin, Tarasenko, Ovi, kucherov, Kuznetsov, or panarin. It was still well earned.

 

[malkins]

Maybe. I think Russia can win Team Finland, SWE and USA fifty-fifty. Сandada right now almost unbeatable.

Any team is beatable! Especially in such a short tournament as Olympics or WC

 

[Minttu]

salinity of Pacific Ocean is 3,5 %
salinity of Dead Sea is 33,7 %
salinity of NA hockey fan's tears is 89 %

 

[a mangy Meowth]

And it was basically KHL all-stars vs second & third tier players.

It was more like 8th tier players. Especially for Canada. They could ice 7+ solid rosters better than what they had in Pyeongchang. Except goalies lol.

That's why this is a laughable comment. And I guess it is salt? Who cares though, people have opinions. Sometimes they aren't pro-Russian-Feelings opinions lol

 

[Peiskos]

some salty Canadiens here eh? It's not like they had Malkin, Tarasenko, Ovi, kucherov, Kuznetsov, or panarin. It was still well earned.

You're missing the point, the NHL is home to just 36 Russian hockey players, as you can see that is a minuscule amount. Yes the best Russian players may play in the NHL but Russia still has a MASSIVE advantage of selecting other players that play outside the NHL, most of Russia's hockey players on this planet play outside the NHL.

Canada on the other hand has 423 players in the NHL and a tiny amount outside the NHL to choose from. A completely unfair advantage, and even with that it took "Russia" overtime to beat a German team without their best player (Draisaitl) which to me is quite pathetic, but that's just my opinion.

I respect Datysuk's talent as a player but he couldn't be more wrong about this being worth more than a Stanley Cup.

 

[Peiskos]

My goodness. It’s priceless how a simple opinion from Datsyuk can elicit a titlewave of insecure posters, all making the effort to post ad nauseam about how meaningless Datsyuk’s achievement is. So salty.

Its not about that, its about devaluation. Datsyuk got into the Triple Gold club by participating in a toruanemnt devoid of the worlds best hockey players, Crosby, Bergeron etc entered it in a tournament with all the worlds best hockey players there.

Can you see the difference?

 

[hallonskal]

That doesn't really work, the Stanley cup is the most prestigious championship in hockey, it just is. It's obvious that some people place winning a gold medal in the Olympics above that, but it is the best league and winning that championship is much more prestigious than winning a gold medal against players who aren't good enough to play in the NHL.

I am not debating that some players desire to win a gold medal more than a cup, I am debating that a Stanley cup is more prestigious than a gold medal won against lesser competition.

You can't really say "X is more prestigious than Y" as a fact. Your opinion might be that X is more prestigious than Y but that does not mean that everyone else will agree. Outside of North America you will find a lot of people that will see their domestic league (even though it is a lesser league) to be a lot more prestigious than winning the Stanley Cup, and there will be many that see an Olympic Gold as more prestigious (despite the fact that the NHL did not participate) than winning the Stanley Cup. Just because you see it in another way does not make it a fact.