Darnell Nurse - NHL Ready or Not?

[Aerchon]

The good.

Nurse has clearly gotten better every single day in preseason.

The bad.

I am not sure he is really that much better today than he was a year ago. He is a still aloooooong ways from being truly NHL ready.

Also.

Everything points to Nurse getting very little from another year of Junior. He is most certainly one of those inbetweeners that really could/should be in the AHL. I would actually say Leon is in this boat as well. Too big/good for Junior but just not quite good enough for regular NHL shifts.

They should either be sheltered heavily in the NHL or given lots of minutes in the AHL. Neither is really an option for either player.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

The good.

Nurse has clearly gotten better every single day in preseason.

The bad.

I am not sure he is really that much better today than he was a year ago. He is a still aloooooong ways from being truly NHL ready.

Also.

Everything points to Nurse getting very little from another year of Junior. He is most certainly one of those inbetweeners that really could/should be in the AHL. I would actually say Leon is in this boat as well. Too big/good for Junior but just not quite good enough for regular NHL shifts.

They should either be sheltered heavily in the NHL or given lots of minutes in the AHL. Neither is really an option for either player.

We could have Nurse as our 7th dman. Have him split games with Marincin/Klefbom. Half him learn from the press box and have a constant battle with the other. Sure he will play a bit less but it could ease him into the league. He would benefit from year round NHL practices as well

 

[JoeCool16]

Nine NHL games plus world juniors plus AHL games at the end of the year when his junior season shuts down... I think that's all we can really offer him right now. Keeping him as a 7th defenseman means he doesn't play that many games or he's splitting them with someone who is probably better right now than him. Neither of those seem very attractive options, and the guy needs to keep playing at that age.

I think he gets the 9, the wjc, and a bit of AHL if his season winds down in time, and we see him full time next year. Only question will be whose spot he takes.

 

[Gret99zky]

Not ready.

But management loves to rush the young guys, so....

 

[Billy Barou]

And therein lies the crux of the problem. And why so many heated debates happen with the young guys.

One school of thought is that he should be playing against men to really learn the game. I do not necessarily agree with that position 100% of the time. Although in certain instances I do.

I believe that in Nurse's case, he should both play 9 NHL games and then go back. This way he can see first hand what it is like playing against real competition, and then he can refine the skills he needs to learn much more easily playing against the Juniors. It would give him allot more space to try different things out and work on them. If he's playing in the NHL, he'll have to play a certain way without the benefit of being able to work on and correct any issues he may have.

But each person is different. Maybe Nurse can think the game fast enough to be able to hone his skills at the NHL level. I tend to think it would be less pressure in Jr.

Confidence building is also a factor.

I really do agree but if only it was the AHL. This rule between CHL and AHL needs to be eliminated, it's detrimental to many players' development.

There is less pressure in Jr. but is this a good thing? Maybe he plays as a #7 splitting duties with Klefbom. He'll have practice days to work on any issues. I'm not sure how he'll refine his positioning skills versus junior players. It isn't puck touches he needs, it's system play with professionals.

I don't think confidence is or ever will be an issue with Darnell.

Another discussion is whether burning a year of his ELC is good asset management.

 

[Mr Positive]

...

Another discussion is whether burning a year of his ELC is good asset management.

It is probably bad asset management because even if he's good enough to cut it in the NHL, chances are he's not going to be playing near to his full potential yet. It is likely that he would have a very up and down year because of his inexperience.

And of course moving up his ELC and his UFA eligibility has its perks.

 

[Billy Barou]

*Double post

 

[Spawn]

I posted in another thread on him, but I don't think he's ready yet.

I think his decision making still needs work. He makes one too many bad reads and gets caught out of position imo. Give him another year of junior and see where he's at next year.

 

[Aequitas]

I have to disagree with the "too good for junior" posts. Pietrangelo went back for a 2nd time after 9 games and then went straight to NHL next season and was for sure nhl ready that year. I feel like it's logical to believe that if players can come from junior to NHL and be nhl ready and nurse is not then he can still derive value playing in junior.

 

[guymez]

Nurse is still too raw for the NHL at this point in time. He just oozes with talent though but he cant play in the AHL so the CHL is the only League he can go to.

Go back to Junior and play for team Canada in the Worlds. It will make him a better player down the road.

Next season will be interesting.

 

[Bauer83]

I have to disagree with the "too good for junior" posts. Pietrangelo went back for a 2nd time after 9 games and then went straight to NHL next season and was for sure nhl ready that year. I feel like it's logical to believe that if players can come from junior to NHL and be nhl ready and nurse is not then he can still derive value playing in junior.

The issue I think most people forget, is both years he spent 2+ months with the NHL team being brought in and out of the lineup. His play once he was back in Junior also wasn't being raved about from what I recall, however, there is zero debate in that he was clearly ready when he arrived full time. The real question is, would he still have became the same player he did if he ended up spending that whole second year.

My opinion, is that Nurse needs to get some actual games this year even if the ultimate plan is to send him home. Let him see the game at a regular season pace, and really teach him what he needs to work on. Let him practice and travel with the team, and get used to the NHL life. I will not be upset if he is in and out of the lineup, and then sent back in mid to late November.

 

[Aequitas]

The issue I think most people forget, is both years he spent 2+ months with the NHL team being brought in and out of the lineup. His play once he was back in Junior also wasn't being raved about from what I recall, however, there is zero debate in that he was clearly ready when he arrived full time. The real question is, would he still have became the same player he did if he ended up spending that whole second year.

My opinion, is that Nurse needs to get some actual games this year even if the ultimate plan is to send him home. Let him see the game at a regular season pace, and really teach him what he needs to work on. Let him practice and travel with the team, and get used to the NHL life. I will not be upset if he is in and out of the lineup, and then sent back in mid to late November.

I'm not saying he shouldn't be in the nhl (I think he would be well served with at least a few games and practices before going back to junior). I am saying that implying he is too good for junior while not being good enough for NHL is wrong as nhl players develop in junior. It's completely worth sending him back if he isn't ready for nhl

 

[groov2]

I only watched the third period last night, but from what I saw, I thought Nurse looked fantastic. He was consistently making good plays and knocking our players off the puck with his body very effectively. You guys have a hell of a defenseman for your future.

Cheers, hoping you guys are back to the playoffs so we can reignite this western rivalry.

 

[Vanqu1sh]

With the nikitin injury I could see nurse playing a few games. Not NHL ready though. Especially not with our defence filled with young players that have potential but are all raw as ****. He just makes too many mistakes...it would be fun to watch him but he wouldn't be a positive difference maker.

He can go to junior and refine his skills, gain another 10 lbs, etc. I hope he can improve his offensive game, especially his shot.

 

[Samus44]

I don't see all these mistakes people keep referencing. He makes a few just out of the fact he makes so many plays, hockeys a trade off like that. If you want a guy to run around and be assertive he's going to look out of place from time to time, what allows Nurse to do that is his terrific speed and wingspan. He doesn't need to be as positionally sound as many players, in fact it would limit his effectiveness. Nurse needs to play a game with some risk to utilize his immense physical talents, and from what i've seen that risk is pretty low. I can't recall him making a bunch of terrible turnovers or pinches, minor mistakes are a part of hockey and if you pay attention the guys who make the most plays tend to make mistakes as well as a trade off. For Nurse it's going to be all about ensuring those mistakes are minor, and they have been IMO.

 

[Lindgren]

Another Canuck fan butting in here ...

I thought he looked great last night. One way or another, he's going to be a star. I thought he looked composed, and his skating is so powerful.

I can't see that there would be much to lose in at least keeping him up for nine games, see how he does when the veterans are playing for real. My prediction: he handles it fine, the decision-making improves, and he sticks for the entire year.

 

[Digger12]

I don't see all these mistakes people keep referencing. He makes a few just out of the fact he makes so many plays, hockeys a trade off like that. If you want a guy to run around and be assertive he's going to look out of place from time to time, what allows Nurse to do that is his terrific speed and wingspan. He doesn't need to be as positionally sound as many players, in fact it would limit his effectiveness. Nurse needs to play a game with some risk to utilize his immense physical talents, and from what i've seen that risk is pretty low. I can't recall him making a bunch of terrible turnovers or pinches, minor mistakes are a part of hockey and if you pay attention the guys who make the most plays tend to make mistakes as well as a trade off. For Nurse it's going to be all about ensuring those mistakes are minor, and they have been IMO.

Totally agree.

I think he is completely deserving of a 9 game audition, I for one would be very interested in seeing how he does against full NHL rosters, playing at full speed.

 

[Shanahanigans]

I disagree with those who are saying he hasn't looked better than last year. Last year he was impressive because he was incredibly raw- we all saw the skating, size, skill, nastiness and were incredibly impressed. This year, he has all that+ his decision making has improved a ton. He looks very composed out there. He didn't panic at all when forecheckers were coming at full speed, and didn't try anything too risky. His composure has improved a ton. I'm not sure who worked with him on that down in SSM, but props to them.

 

[dobiezeke*]

We could have Nurse as our 7th dman. Have him split games with Marincin/Klefbom. Half him learn from the press box and have a constant battle with the other. Sure he will play a bit less but it could ease him into the league. He would benefit from year round NHL practices as well

HFoil has continually complained about rushing players into the NHL. With Nurse I agree. Why have him sit in the press box when he can continue to develop his weaknesses in the CHL. He gains nothing from skating in practice. He needs big games minutes in junior to develop both his physical and mental talents. Eating popcorn with Gadzic in the press box will not improve his play.

 

[dobiezeke*]

I disagree with those who are saying he hasn't looked better than last year. Last year he was impressive because he was incredibly raw- we all saw the skating, size, skill, nastiness and were incredibly impressed. This year, he has all that+ his decision making has improved a ton. He looks very composed out there. He didn't panic at all when forecheckers were coming at full speed, and didn't try anything too risky. His composure has improved a ton. I'm not sure who worked with him on that down in SSM, but props to them.

Totally agree with you. He has impressed me this year with how he developed from his last camp. Another year in Junior and a stint at the World's will be great for his confidence and growth.

 

[Digger12]

I disagree with those who are saying he hasn't looked better than last year. Last year he was impressive because he was incredibly raw- we all saw the skating, size, skill, nastiness and were incredibly impressed. This year, he has all that+ his decision making has improved a ton. He looks very composed out there. He didn't panic at all when forecheckers were coming at full speed, and didn't try anything too risky. His composure has improved a ton. I'm not sure who worked with him on that down in SSM, but props to them.

Agreed about his decision making being better (mainly from him not over-committing as much as he was last training camp), but the big thing I see is that he finally has some strength to back up what he's trying to do out there. He's still not as big as he's going to get obviously, but that extra 10-15 pounds has made a big difference to his defensive game and ability to break up the cycle game.

The one thing I think we're all going to have to come to terms with eventually though with him, is that I don't think he'll ever be a big point producer. I think he's got the potential to be a 30-35 point guy who will be able to play against the other team's best players and not only hold his own, but shut them down.

Obviously a long way for him to go in his career, and as always injuries have a way of derailing the best of careers...but he's got a shot at being a Jay Bouwmeester with a physical edge. THAT is a valuable guy.

 

[Joey Moss]

Not ready.

But management loves to rush the young guys, so....

If they wanted to rush him this would be his sophomore season. He looked great last year in training camp and he looks even better this year. I don't think Nurse is going to stick past 9 games but that's only because of the situation on the backend. Now that Nikitin is likely going to be out at least a few games I think Nurse has earned his cup of coffee at the NHL level. Let him get his feet wet then send him back and let him dominate the World Juniors.

 

[Horseradish]

I have to disagree with the "too good for junior" posts. Pietrangelo went back for a 2nd time after 9 games and then went straight to NHL next season and was for sure nhl ready that year. I feel like it's logical to believe that if players can come from junior to NHL and be nhl ready and nurse is not then he can still derive value playing in junior.

Yah I follow this line of thinking. It's way more preferable to be dominant in a lesser league than be thrown in over your head. I've yet to see somebody argue that a prospect didn't develop cuz he was too good for the league he was in.

But throwing a player into a situation which is above his ability is damaging. You do what you do to get by, focus on your strengths, and hope that other parts of your game round out. That seems to have worked for a guy like RNH, for example. But there are LOTS for whom it hasn't. Gagner never could figure out the defensive side. Would another year in junior as a dominant player have helped him in that regard? Hard to say, but I think there's a logic to it. Once you're dominant in one area, like scoring, you can put more energy into other areas-- defensive positioning, face offs, puck protection, and so on. Not to mention that you likely get a more mature player during his ELC-- not as prone to wild fluctuations in production, and that extra time in a lower league to hone their skills.

If I had it my way, I'd have Draisaitl, Nurse, Yakimov, Lander, and Pitlick all sent down to continue working on their respective games. We might have a weakness this year, but it's a matter of long-term risk management. I'd rather have a weak 2nd line centre picked up off of waivers or through a minor trade than have a guy whose ceiling might be stunted by putting him into the show too soon (like what happened to Smid, Gagner, and Lander, as I see it).

Yes, Nurse and Draisaitl are NHL-ready. But I'm not sure it's in their or the team's best interests to have them in the lineup, especially when it's clear that this team won't contend for anything outside of mayyyybe a wild card playoff spot if literally everything goes perfectly.

 

[Joey Moss]

Yah I follow this line of thinking. It's way more preferable to be dominant in a lesser league than be thrown in over your head. I've yet to see somebody argue that a prospect didn't develop cuz he was too good for the league he was in.

But throwing a player into a situation which is above his ability is damaging. You do what you do to get by, focus on your strengths, and hope that other parts of your game round out. That seems to have worked for a guy like RNH, for example. But there are LOTS for whom it hasn't. Gagner never could figure out the defensive side. Would another year in junior as a dominant player have helped him in that regard? Hard to say, but I think there's a logic to it. Once you're dominant in one area, like scoring, you can put more energy into other areas-- defensive positioning, face offs, puck protection, and so on. Not to mention that you likely get a more mature player during his ELC-- not as prone to wild fluctuations in production, and that extra time in a lower league to hone their skills.

If I had it my way, I'd have Draisaitl, Nurse, Yakimov, Lander, and Pitlick all sent down to continue working on their respective games. We might have a weakness this year, but it's a matter of long-term risk management. I'd rather have a weak 2nd line centre picked up off of waivers or through a minor trade than have a guy whose ceiling might be stunted by putting him into the show too soon (like what happened to Smid, Gagner, and Lander, as I see it).

Yes, Nurse and Draisaitl are NHL-ready. But I'm not sure it's in their or the team's best interests to have them in the lineup, especially when it's clear that this team won't contend for anything outside of mayyyybe a wild card playoff spot if literally everything goes perfectly.

There is obvious incentive to send Nurse down.. World Juniors, depth on the backend, extra development for a defenseman can't hurt..

Draisaitl on the other hand is a bit different. Yea, I'm sure he would dominate but it's not like he's going to be put in a great situation going back to junior. His team isn't going to contend and there is no benefit to playing for Germany in the WJ's.. (are they even in this years tourney?) It's a lot easier to break into the league as a forward than it is a defenseman and the Oilers are desperate for immediate help. If he's clearly overwhelmed at this level after 9 games than you have to think about it but not right now.

 

[JoeCool16]

There is obvious incentive to send Nurse down.. World Juniors, depth on the backend, extra development for a defenseman can't hurt..

Draisaitl on the other hand is a bit different. Yea, I'm sure he would dominate but it's not like he's going to be put in a great situation going back to junior. His team isn't going to contend and there is no benefit to playing for Germany in the WJ's.. (are they even in this years tourney?) It's a lot easier to break into the league as a forward than it is a defenseman and the Oilers are desperate for immediate help. If he's clearly overwhelmed at this level after 9 games than you have to think about it but not right now.

Totally agree on both points, and I really like what Nurse's year looks like this year compared to last. 9 games in the NHL, WJC, 5-10 games in the AHL at the end of the year, plus time to continue to mature physically. He's going to be a force next year, a real staple of our D-line. I almost wish this season would just pass by straight to next year!