Proposal: Darnell Nurse for Jacob Trouba straight up

[snipes]

In a vacuum EDM would have to add big time. Trouba is far ahead of Nurse at this point, Trouba's a solid player.

But, Trouba is also seeking a major pay day which we just can't afford when we know we have to give Drai and McDavid significant money when they come off their ELCs. Nurse is cheap, he's also expansion draft exempt. That allows us to likely protect Davidson.

Nurse is also in our long term plan. He'll probably never be a 1st pairing D, that's fine. But when he starts to hit his peak (Dmen peak later and longer), he'll be an absolute beast. With his elite skating, size, nastiness, and team first character he's a guy we want long term. As a 2nd pairing Dman who plays heavy PK minutes, Nurse will be a great fit for us. Every team in the NHL would love to have a guy like Nurse on their roster in some capacity. Nurse needs some AHL time and the opportunity to develop his game.

As has been said by WPG and EDM fans on numerous occasions, we just aren't good trading partners. Our pieces don't matchup where it's mutually beneficial to make a move.

 

[Draiskull]

There is a 1 year difference here..

Now do 1 for William Nylander and someone a year older with ~200 games already under his belt (Monahan?Lindholm? Domi) ..
Even compare him to Larkins, Draisaitl, Pastarnak from his own draft class and you will know how ****** a player Nylander is.

hopefully you get the point.

 

[sully1410]

???

Based on what?!

A 20 year old defender gets pushed into the NHL a year early. Demonstrates he's physically capable of being an intimidating force in the NHL. Demonstrates elite skating at the NHL level. Plays 20 mins a night on the 3rd worst team in the league. Contributes 106 blocked shots and 160 hits (20th in the league). Demonstrates the expected difficulty adjusting to positioning at the NHL level. Ends up a - 13 in 69 games.

Clearly he's a bust, right? No chance at a top pairing despite what NHL scouts have said about him... despite that he get's asked about from NHL GMs in any trade Chia tries to make.

What makes you smarter than the rest?

This was an MVP for Canada's World Junior team 18 months ago... world JUNIOR team.

You just quoted the three most useless stats on your argument.

Hits?

Who cares? It just means that he doesn't have the puck.

Lots of blocked shots?

And? It just means he gets shot on a lot and lacks the defensive awareness to break up the play and clear the puck out of the zone.

+/-?

Seriously? Did you just try to use this?

I'm not saying that he is a bust...but I really don't think that he is going t
Be a number 1 or even a number 2 defenseman. I think he's at best a 3/4 like Bogosian.

 

[Homesick]

There is a 1 year difference here..

Yea lets just throw out the extra 2 seasons of sheltered experience Trouba has

How much are Jets adding to Trouba for Klefbom? They're only 7 months apart and Klefbom is clearly the far better defenseman

 

[snipes]

What happened to Nurse? I haven't followed him since he was rated highly. Stagnating or progressing too slowly?

Nothing happened to Nurse. He played unsheltered first pairing minutes during his first season on an awful Dcore. He just needs time to grow, I mean he's still a pup. He showed that his skating is elite and he showed good character and toughness throughout the year.

Nurse is a straight up bust.

Imagine if they had picked Ristolainen instead who went to Sabres with the next pick. They would have their #1 D and they would have been able to keep Hall.

Nurse isn't a bust. Dmen typically take longer to reach their peak. Way too early to say something bold like that. He just needs time to develop his game. When he's fully developed he'll be 6'4 220-245 with elite skating, he'll be an excellent second pairing and PKer for us.

Ristolainen is an excellent player, I'll grant you that. As for your last sentence, we'll never know.

I'm not saying that he is a bust...but I really don't think that he is going t
Be a number 1 or even a number 2 defenseman. I think he's at best a 3/4 like Bogosian.

I wasn't the person you were responding to, but I'll chime in. I think that Nurse likely ends up on our 2nd pairing when he's ready, he'll also play heavy PK minutes for us. Nothing wrong with that.

I think Nurse needs AHL time to be "the guy" for a season. Put a letter on his chest and ask him to be a leader in Bakersfield, ask him to play 25-30 mins/game on the 1st pairing in all situations. Nurse plays the type of game where he needs to be confident knowing he's an alpha dog.

For example, Nurse beat the **** out of Polak after a perceived cheap shot on Hendo. The Sharks responded by sending out a goon to fight Nurse the next game. In that game, Nurse finished with an assist and was +4 playing his best NHL game. Once Nurse develops into his lanky frame and plays with full confidence, we'll see the best of his game shine through.

Even if Nurse ends up on the 2nd pairing at LD behind Klefbom, there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

Nurse is a top prospect. IMO his stock has dropped amongst fans only due to the fact he played with Oilers last season when he should have played the full season in the AHL and fans saw his weaknesses really exposed... but the Oils needed him up, so it is what it is.

If he had played a full season last year in AHL, there would be so much hype with him right now it would be mental. Hes a good player and I really hope he actually spends majority of next season in AHL and really works on his game

Having said that though, absolutely NO from Jets side

 

[missinthejets]

Nurse is a straight up bust.

Imagine if they had picked Ristolainen instead who went to Sabres with the next pick. They would have their #1 D and they would have been able to keep Hall.

If the Oilers had taken Ristolainen we'd be sitting here laughing at them for taking such a bust when they could have taken the physical beast man that is Nurse with the very next pick.

Seriously Nurse had a real good start to his NHL season last year and a good finish but that rough stretch in the middle where he was thrown in the deep end is what defines him now? Seriously people need to get over that.

 

[lomiller1]

There is a 1 year difference here..

Also consider that when he isn't on the ice with Mark Stuart, Trouba is one of the Jets best shot suppressing D while anyone else paired with Stuart immediately becomes on of the teams worst.


Buff probably wins but you can make a case for Trouba being the Jets best D, at worst he's their second best. Conversely Nurse was arguably Edmonton's worst D last year. Sure Nurse is young and could improve yet, but so is Trouba. How on earth does this proposal make any sense whatsoever?

 

[lomiller1]

Yea lets just throw out the extra 2 seasons of sheltered experience Trouba has

If Trouba had a dime for every year he's been sheltered he'd have zero dimes.

He's never been sheltered, in fact if you consider who he's been on the ice with he's had far and away the toughest deployments on the Jets D corps.

 

[snipes]

If the Oilers had taken Ristolainen we'd be sitting here laughing at them for taking such a bust when they could have taken the physical beast man that is Nurse with the very next pick.

Seriously Nurse had a real good start to his NHL season last year and a good finish but that rough stretch in the middle where he was thrown in the deep end is what defines him now? Seriously people need to get over that.

Exactly. You obviously watched the Oilers play last season.

Nurse got thrown to the wolves during the middle of the year when Klefbom went down. Davidson going down (ironically, against the Jets) further left Nurse completely unsheltered.

The only NHL calibre Dman on the roster at the end of the year was Sekera. The others (including Nurse who should have been in the AHL) were essentially AHL calibre Dmen. Seriously, it was pathetic. We couldn't even execute basic breakouts out of our zone.

Nurse started to play with a little more swagger and confidence towards the last handful of games following a rough middle portion of the season. In the end, Nurse will grow lots from this season. I'm not worried about him at all, I hope he gets a season in the AHL. Ask Darnell to be "the guy" on D for Bakersfield. Put him on the 1st pairing playing heavy minutes for Bako, ask him to be a leader.

Darnell needs a little time to grow into his body and simply gain experience. He'll continue to improve, he's going to be frightening for opponents to play against by the time he's 25. Generally speaking, Dmen peak later and longer. He'll be an absolute force from about the age of 25 to 35 in the NHL, he will be a crucial component of our team.

 

[snipes]

If Trouba had a dime for every year he's been sheltered he'd have zero dimes.

He's never been sheltered, in fact if you consider who he's been on the ice with he's had far and away the toughest deployments on the Jets D corps.

Trouba is a great player. His value is far more than Nurse right now.

Some of the responses being made (i.e. mine) are in response to people calling Nurse a bust already after his 20 year old season.

 

[Rebuilt]

Winnipeg has no reason to do this. I wouldn't add to Nurse to get Trouba though, give Nurse a couple of years and they could be very similar players.

I disagree that the Jets have no reason to do this. Payroll and exemption. But in my opinon Nurse is going to be as good as Trouba in the longrun. If we take on Trouba, we then have to expose one of Trouba, Larsson or Klefbom.

Trouba is not worth Nurse AND losing Klefbom to expansion.

 

[Measles]

Nurse is a straight up bust.

Imagine if they had picked Ristolainen instead who went to Sabres with the next pick. They would have their #1 D and they would have been able to keep Hall.

You are able to identify a "straight up bust" in a 20-year old defensman after only 68 NHL games? You should apply for an NHL scouting job as I'm sure they would pay big bucks for access to your omniscience.

 

[ijuka]

You are able to identify a "straight up bust" in a 20-year old defensman after only 68 NHL games? You should apply for an NHL scouting job as I'm sure they would pay big bucks for access to your omniscience.

Yeah, I guess that's too harsh by me. It's possible he turns it around.

 

[oilerbear]

Oilers definitely add.

PC made it Clear tthat he thinks there are 15-17 #1 D in the game.
When you look for Dmen that
face 1st comp
have top end Shot suppression (SA/60)
are top 50 GA/60 D
you end up with 15- 17 year to year.

Think Defend the net and GA.

when you look at the structure of any cup winning team they have

1. great top 150 even production forward depth that can be spread over 3 lines.

2. THey have 3+ top 60 HSCA D with low SA/60 counts.

3. A top 8-10 HSCA save% Goalie.

Trouba is
upr 2nd comp
top 80 HSCA D
top 50 SA d
ends up as a top 50 GA D

Trouba is WPG best protector of the HSCA

league average
Shooting % 8.5% .085
Save% 91.5% .915
HSCA = shot success rate of 8.5 to 20%

When expansion draft starts next year:
1. we have Sekera on a NMC.

2. Larsson not on team last year.
top 15 comp
#1 ZS 30.5% next hardest dpair 38.7%
top 10 HSCA D
#8 SA D
#2 EVGA D
#10 PKGAD

3. Klefbom missed 52gm
top 35 comp
Top 50 ZS
Top 60 HSCA D
Top 20 PKGA D

4. Davidson missed 31gm
2nd comp
Top 35 HSCA D
top 40 SA D
top 40 GA D
top 20 PKGA D

Trouba does not replace Larsson or Klefbom against 1st comp
and
his defensive numbers do not stack up to Davidson.
Bob Mackenzies group of NHL scouts he spolls said Davidson would have started oin any playoffs teams top 4.

Edmonton gave up a top 10 EVP producer and Top 50 EVGF forward for
the best EV/PK GA D in the game last 2 years.

Luckily we were able to get a top 40 EVP producer and top 12 EVGF forward to play LW in free agency.

We are not going to trade an Exempt player for a Dman we would not Protect over
Larsson
Klefbom
Davidson.
in the expansion draft.

No expansion draft or Sekera I go after trouba as 2nd Pair D man in a heart beat!

 

[DarthProbert]

If Nurse is expansion draft exempt, I could see Winnipeg doing Nurse+ for Trouba so they get to keep Byfuglien, Myers, and Enstrom (along with Morrissey!). Otherwise, don't see Winnipeg doing it.

This guy gets it.

 

[Homesick]

The ole HF appeal to authority argument...when a poster runs out of argument runway but doesn't want to give up.

Anyone who works for the NHL is infallible folks, pack it up!

Well then why don't you show me a professional that thinks Nurse doesn't have any hockey IQ (besides the dumbasses on here who don't even watch him)

Hockeys Future:

Talent Analysis
Darnell Nurse is a big, mobile, gifted blueliner who has a lot of Chris Pronger in his game. He’s an imposing presence on the blueline and has the tools to be successful at both ends. Beyond the bloodlines and support (aunt, father, mother are all elite athletes -- uncle by marriage is Donovan McNabb), Nurse has it where it counts most -- between the ears. He was a leader during his junior career, playing a key role in Sault Ste. Marie's turnaround from a non-playoff team to a championship contender. Nurse continues to add strength and bulk to his ideal NHL frame. He is capable of playing in all situations and can log big minutes.

What have you "jeanyuses" got?

 

[oilerbear]

Yea lets just throw out the extra 2 seasons of sheltered experience Trouba has

Never quit Leaf fans

How much are Jets adding to Trouba for Klefbom? They're only 7 months apart and Klefbom is clearly the far better defenseman

These charts are useless cause it looks specifically at Offence production and one line for shot suppression.

Goal diff is
GF and GA

GA is
Dman's Corsi reduced to SA/60 shot suppression.
dmans HSCA shot reduction. area were 75% of goals come from.
the Average range for HSCA shots/60 is 7.5 to 13.5
a variance of 6shots 6/13.5 a possible 44.4% hsca Shot variance.

44.4% variance were 75% of shots come from .444 X .75 = 33.3%

Dmen score like #10 Forwards.
greatest influencer of Offence are the Forwards.

You want D that get the puck to Forwards ASAP.
so oppositions D has less chance to set up defence of Zone entry and Defence of HSCA.
You want elite passer of the puck!
high evA/60 D

Klefbom
1. top 35 comp
2. top 30 EVP /60 D
3. top 15 EVA/60 D
4. top 60 HSCA D
5. top 50 SHot Supression D
6. Top 20 PKGA D

Klefbom is the first d to tick the 1st pairing D results in all 6 categories since
Lidstrom's 2 last year.

Klefbom under Nelson in 14-15
1. top 60 comp
2. top 10 EVP./60 D
3. top 30 EVA/60 D
4. Top 80 HSCA D
5. Top 80 Shot suppression
6. top 50 PKGA
HE was top pair in 1,2,3,and 6
#3 D in 4,5

He starts next year like 15-16
He is untouchable.

 

[YesCubed]

How do Oilers fans STILL not understand the market for d-men yet?

You're not getting a legit, young top 4 d-man for a guy who's only "assets" shown thus far are fighting and skating fast

 

[Mit Yarrum]

This would be great for the Oilers.

 

[ManofSteel55]

How do Oilers fans STILL not understand the market for d-men yet?

You're not getting a legit, young top 4 d-man for a guy who's only "assets" shown thus far are fighting and skating fast

We don't want Trouba. He isn't what we need. Doesn't bring the tools we are lacking. Extra salary. Probably overpaid salary at that. It has nothing to do with the market, it has everything to do with not filling a need. Try to keep up.

 

[JetsHomer]

I'd consider moving Josh Morrissey for Nurse? Jacob Trouba though

 

[Paradise*]

We don't want Trouba. He isn't what we need. Doesn't bring the tools we are lacking. Extra salary. Probably overpaid salary at that. It has nothing to do with the market, it has everything to do with not filling a need. Try to keep up.

Edmonton has a terrible D. They need anything that will help out that lame D core.

Unfortunately for the Oilers, Winnipeg isn't here to help them out.

 

[Homesick]

Edmonton has a terrible D. They need anything that will help out that lame D core.

Unfortunately for the Oilers, Winnipeg isn't here to help them out.

We don't want Trouba and aren't helping Winnipeg out with a soon to be overpaid 2nd pairing defenseman

PS: The Oilers went 2-0-1 with our lame D core and kept the Jets to 1.33GAA last season What happened to your roster of Norris and Selke winners?

 

[zar]

Edmonton has a terrible D. They need anything that will help out that lame D core.

Unfortunately for the Oilers, Winnipeg isn't here to help them out.

Agreed. Also the Oilers had more impact player man games lost in the entire NHL, including Klefbom 52 games lost and Davidson 31 games lost... that is the reason the Oilers finished with 70 points last year.

What's your insights as to why the Jets only finished with 8 more points than the Oilers and only 6 less goals against?