Proposal: Darnell Nurse for Jacob Trouba straight up

[oilers4life5]

Oilers pass for sure.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Edmonton has a terrible D. They need anything that will help out that lame D core.

Unfortunately for the Oilers, Winnipeg isn't here to help them out.

Unless Trouba is a top tier puck mover he doesn't help us. Larsson brings everything Trouba does. We need a good puck Carrier and passers-by. Trouba doesn't bring that.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Trouba would be your best defenceman

Larsson was better last year so Trouba would be our 2nd best right handed defenseman.

 

[Lemmiwinks]

Unless Trouba is a top tier puck mover he doesn't help us. Larsson brings everything Trouba does. We need a good puck Carrier and passers-by. Trouba doesn't bring that.

yeah.. he would help that blueline a lot. Having Adam Larsson does not suddenly make a player like Trouba redundant, especially if you're only trading Nurse to acquire him.

 

[cbzblaze]

i think it all comes down to money. If Trouba would sign for 4.5 - 5mill, he's a good add. If that was the case though, I think he would be already signed by the Jets. The fact that he hasn't signed yet would lead you to believe he wants significantly more than that. It's very similar to the Barrie situation in Colorado. I feel both organizations really like their respective players, but not for the price their demanding, hence these trade rumors.

Having both Klefbom and Larsson signed long term around 4mill is a huge plus going forward. We should be looking for another dman around the same price range. Another thing that gets constantly overlooked is the fact that Sekera is more than capable of playing the right side.

 

[lomiller1]

Trouba is
upr 2nd comp
top 80 HSCA D
top 50 SA d
ends up as a top 50 GA D

Trouba is WPG best protector of the HSCA

Team mates are a much bigger factor than competition. Trouba put up those numbers despite the fact his regular D partner, when not paired with Trouba, is arguably among the bottom 5 of regularly played NHL D. Conversely Trouba wo Stuart is ~top 10 in CF/60 and ~top 20 in CA/60 over the past 2 years.

 

[ps241]

Team mates are a much bigger factor than competition. Trouba put up those numbers despite the fact his regular D partner, when not paired with Trouba, is arguably among the bottom 5 of regularly played NHL D. Conversely Trouba wo Stuart is ~top 10 in CF/60 and ~top 20 in CA/60 over the past 2 years.

Amazing how things change when the human boat anchor is detached.

 

[sully1410]

Larsson was better last year so Trouba would be our 2nd best right handed defenseman.

No. He wasn't.

 

[Evil Little]

These guys get it.

No.

They don't.

The Jets' greatest need is high-end D Trouba's age or younger.

They need someone to move the puck, run the powerplay, and suppress shots during Laine's, Scheifele's, Ehlers's, Connor's, and Hellebuyck's primes.

That's not Tyler Myers.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

So lopsided it's ridiculous. Strange that this thread is still going when almost every single reply is saying how bad the offer is haha

I figured it would go 2 pages max and then be closed

 

[ManofSteel55]

yeah.. he would help that blueline a lot. Having Adam Larsson does not suddenly make a player like Trouba redundant, especially if you're only trading Nurse to acquire him.

Yes actually, despite Trouba being a really good player, he plays the same style game as most of our other defensemen. So yeah, he kind of is redundant.

 

[ManofSteel55]

No. He wasn't.

Considering that Larsson succeeded as a shut down defenseman against the oppositions top line nightly and Trouba didn't have to play that role and didn't exactly show any reason to think he could, I would suggest that you are very wrong.

 

[Hockeypete49]

I take Trouba and run. Nurse has a long way to go and that is if he ever makes it.

 

[bucks_oil]

If you would actually prefer Nurse + Maroon/Kassian to Trouba than you're obviously not very intelligent and I agree, there is no more need to argue

So the guy with:
1) A handle name of JetsHomer
2) Homer Simpson as his avatar/mascot

Makes an ad-hominem attack about intelligence. That's really rich!

How about we actually comment on the substance of the proposal instead... which as I see it is:

From the Jets perspective:
Pros:
1) a high upside, high pedigree LD on his ELC.
2) Elite skating, mean, INTELLIGENT (scholastic player of the year), with high team-focused intangibles. Just completed his rookie year, playing 20 mins a night.
3) Upside = top pairing with some offense.
4) Downside = 2nd pairing shutdown with limited offense.
5) 2 years of $4M+ in cap space, then best guess is they are saving $2M in cap space
6) Expansion exempt...
Cons:
1) Nurse is currently a #6D... typical rookie risks/rewards
2) Trouba is already a #3, which is Nurse's median projection and still has #2 upside. It is low risk to keep him
3) Winnipeg doesn't really need the cap space this year or next, after that... questionable how much they save with Nurse on his ELC
4) Is Winnipeg concerned about protecting 4x4? I wouldn't think so

Summary, they trade the better player currently for questionable future improvement (could go either way). The economics & expansion benefits don't (or SHOULDN'T) matter that much to Winnipeg. They would only consider this if: 1) emotions have clouded their judgement and they've dug their heels in on principle vs Trouba's contract, and 2) there was a significant add from Edmonton to offset their risk

From Edmonton:
Pros:
1) Trouba is a better player today
2) Trouba may still be the better player in 3 years... it's at least questionable
3) Trouba is an RD

Cons:
1) Nurse fits Chia's phenotype for a mean, shutdown defender
2) Nurse top end potential is > Trouba's (but its less likely he hits it)
3) Worst case, Edmonton is expecting Nurse to be what Trouba is now (but meaner). If Trouba doesn't progress... what was the point... if Nurse progresses... what was the point
4) Edmonton DOES care about the cap hit for Trouba... they may have concerns in 3+ years
5) Edmonton DOES care about the expansion protection... they cannot afford to lose the depth they are building
6) Winnipeg would rightly ask for a significant add

Summary: Edmonton does the deal instantly without an add... but they don't add because they value Nurse's ELC and Expansion exemption moreso than Winnipeg would. Given they don't get any exchange for that perceived value, they would stay the course on Nurse.

Both teams pass... on paper Winnipeg passes harder (unless there is something sinister/spiteful/resentful brewing in mgmt office that we don't know about here on HF)

 

[JetsHomer]

Considering that Larsson succeeded as a shut down defenseman against the oppositions top line nightly and Trouba didn't have to play that role and didn't exactly show any reason to think he could, I would suggest that you are very wrong.

Trouba and Larsson played essentially the same minutes and had essentially the same results playing those minutes. Larsson only averaged 27 seconds a game more than Trouba. Trouba is younger and better offensively while being at worst equal defensively. So you're actually the one that's wrong here.

In the future you may want to actually look things up before you make silly claims like this

Are you saying that Nurse is not going to get any better?

Trouba was very strong his rookie season... and he hasn't improved much since.

I love when people say this. Makes it really easy to know who actually watches Trouba and who only watches point totals

 

[lomiller1]

Yes actually, despite Trouba being a really good player, he plays the same style game as most of our other defensemen. So yeah, he kind of is redundant.

What? The only thing I can take from this is you have never watched him play and have absolutely no idea what type of defenseman he is.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Trouba and Larsson played essentially the same minutes and had essentially the same results playing those minutes. Larsson only averaged 27 seconds a game more than Trouba. Trouba is younger and better offensively while being at worst equal defensively. So you're actually the one that's wrong here.

In the future you may want to actually look things up before you make silly claims like this



I love when people say this. Makes it really easy to know who actually watches Trouba and who only watches point totals

Their advanced stats (Qualcomp, QOT) show a different story.

The funny part is where you accuse others of not looking things up and then provide no evidence to support your opinions. Jets Homer indeed.

 

[ManofSteel55]

What? The only thing I can take from this is you have never watched him play and have absolutely no idea what type of defenseman he is.

Ah yes, the typical "you've never watched him play" argument. Classic.

I have watched Trouba play, and he is a great young defenseman. But the type of defenseman we need to fill out our top six is a guy more like a Tyson Barrie. Even though I think that Trouba is a better player than Barrie, what we truly need is a guy who can rush the puck out of the zone and make a strong breakout pass to our forwards when needed. Trouba has a good breakout pass, but he isn't the kind of player who is going to be a great puck rusher. He is a solid, capable defenseman. But not so different in his skill set from Klefbom and Larsson that he fills our biggest need. Perhaps the word "redundant" was the wrong word (in hindsight, it was), but Trouba certainly isn't the ideal piece for us, so moving a cost controlled, expansion draft exempt player who has one of the more unique skill sets in the league and is pegged as a leader of our team in the very near future going forward isn't the ideal. I would love to have Trouba. But considering our needs he is worth neither giving up the necessary pieces to acquire him, nor the contract that he will likely be getting (unless he signs for a real steal of a deal, which probably would have happened by now already if it was going to).

 

[JetsHomer]

Their advanced stats (Qualcomp, QOT) show a different story.

The funny part is where you accuse others of not looking things up and then provide no evidence to support your opinions. Jets Homer indeed.

Adam Larrson this past year: Qualcomp: .039 QOT: .202

Jacob Trouba last season: Qualcomp: .004 QOT: -.167

So looks to me like they played similar quality of competition but Trouba had much worse teammates (Stuart vs Greene)

Somehow the younger Trouba had equal defensive results despite playing against the same competition with worse teammates. Trouba also did better offensively in those minutes than Larsson did.

The only argument that could be made to support Larsson over Trouba is zone starts. But QualComp and QOT? Lol do some research before you act so sure that you are right. It may keep you from looking foolish next time

 

[lomiller1]

. Trouba has a good breakout pass, but he isn't the kind of player who is going to be a great puck rusher.

So again it comes down to the fact that you have never actually watched him play.


FYI Trouba is a puck moving offensive defense man while he's at his best using his speed and strength to carry the puck he also has a very good first pass and excellent offensive instincts for when to jump into the play.

He is also strong in defensively, physical, mean and willing to block shots. This makes him the Jets best all round defenseman in his own end, but personality wise he leans towards the high risk high reward end of the scale so he isn't ideally suited to be a defensive defenseman.

 

[ManofSteel55]

So again it comes down to the fact that you have never actually watched him play.


FYI Trouba is a puck moving offensive defense man while he's at his best using his speed and strength to carry the puck he also has a very good first pass and excellent offensive instincts for when to jump into the play.

He is also strong in defensively, physical, mean and willing to block shots. This makes him the Jets best all round defenseman in his own end, but personality wise he leans towards the high risk high reward end of the scale so he isn't ideally suited to be a defensive defenseman.

I've seen enough of Trouba to know that you are greatly overstating his ability to rush the puck. At least so far. If he is such an offensive stud, why have his numbers stagnated? The potential is there, but if you are suggesting that Trouba is a top tier puck rusher, I'm not buying it. His results simply don't support your claims.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Adam Larrson this past year: Qualcomp: .039 QOT: .202

Jacob Trouba last season: Qualcomp: .004 QOT: -.167

So looks to me like they played similar quality of competition but Trouba had much worse teammates (Stuart vs Greene)

Somehow the younger Trouba had equal defensive results despite playing against the same competition with worse teammates. Trouba also did better offensively in those minutes than Larsson did.

The only argument that could be made to support Larsson over Trouba is zone starts. But QualComp and QOT? Lol do some research before you act so sure that you are right. It may keep you from looking foolish next time

Those aren't exactly equal defensive results, but okay.

This is hilarious. On one hand I've get this Jets Homer telling me that Trouba is a defensive juggernaut, and lolmiller1 trying to tell me that he isn't a defensive d-man but an elite puck rusher. The evidence supports neither. Not to say he is a bad player, just not as accomplished as some here are trying to claim.

Maybe, just maybe, Trouba's value among Jets fans is based more on pure potential and rookie year hype than actual performance. And there's nothing wrong with that, its exactly why we value Nurse (Nurse being less proven). But don't pee on my shoe and tell me its raining.

 

[mcpw]

Their advanced stats (Qualcomp, QOT) show a different story.

The funny part is where you accuse others of not looking things up and then provide no evidence to support your opinions. Jets Homer indeed.

Do you read Lowetide?

**** Adam Larsson, EVTOI = 1427:44 ****
Top Comp TOI= 54% CF ( 473, 644) 42.3% CF%Rel -4.4% CF/60 37 CA/60 50 DFF ( 356, 445) 44.5% DFF%Rel -3.5% DFF/60 28 DFA/60 34
Muddle TOI= 28% CF ( 284, 336) 45.8% CF%Rel -0.1% CF/60 42 CA/60 50 DFF ( 241, 211) 53.2% DFF%Rel 6.5% DFF/60 36 DFA/60 31
Dregs TOI= 17% CF ( 175, 183) 48.9% CF%Rel 3.2% CF/60 42 CA/60 44 DFF ( 137, 127) 51.8% DFF%Rel 4.7% DFF/60 33 DFA/60 31
**** Jacob Trouba, EVTOI = 1387:54 ****
Top Comp TOI= 46% CF ( 567, 605) 48.4% CF%Rel -3.8% CF/60 53 CA/60 57 DFF ( 407, 386) 51.3% DFF%Rel 0.6% DFF/60 38 DFA/60 36
Muddle TOI= 34% CF ( 455, 392) 53.7% CF%Rel 2.5% CF/60 58 CA/60 50 DFF ( 328, 283) 53.7% DFF%Rel 3.3% DFF/60 42 DFA/60 36
Dregs TOI= 20% CF ( 286, 222) 56.3% CF%Rel 5.1% CF/60 61 CA/60 48 DFF ( 214, 152) 58.5% DFF%Rel 8.3% DFF/60 46 DFA/60 33

Interesting numbers for sure.

 

[Whileee]

I've seen enough of Trouba to know that you are greatly overstating his ability to rush the puck. At least so far. If he is such an offensive stud, why have his numbers stagnated? The potential is there, but if you are suggesting that Trouba is a top tier puck rusher, I'm not buying it. His results simply don't support your claims.

Have you been watching him over the past 3 seasons, or just looking at scoring stats?

In his first couple of years he rushed the puck constantly. Playing with Stuart he couldn't afford to take as many risks and toned down his offense last season. But he has scored at a high rate at every level, including the NHL.

 

[Draiskull]

How do Oilers fans STILL not understand the market for d-men yet?

You're not getting a legit, young top 4 d-man for a guy who's only "assets" shown thus far are fighting and skating fast

umm Nurse is a Dman as well and by your logic also holds high value.
"thus far" = the time he was thrown into NHL when he should have been in AHL?

Nurse at the very minimum will be a "Legit top 4 Dman" when the Oilers would be ready to contend.