Player Discussion Danton Heinen IV

[EON]

I don't know why I keep reading this thread, the endless takes that Heinen isn't physical or intense enough make my eyes gloss over. Yes, he could be a bit more physical but that's just not his game. Hopefully his finishing improves and he produce more offense as he matures. But neither of those things change the fact that he is fantastic defensively and drives possession of whatever line he is on. I haven't seen anything about negotiations with him yet but I'd do a 3 x 3 bridge deal all day long. At the very least he will be a 30-35 point defensively responsible third liner, but it wouldn't be outlandish if he improves offensively and is a solid 50ish point 2nd liner. I don't know why people are so willing to get rid of him unless it's in some sort of package for a clear upgrade in the top 6, but even then the 3rd line is likely just a big weakness again.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

One of the stories that was glossed over in this final was the Maroon-Bozak line without a healthy Robbie Thomas was a complete non-factor.

Yeah, I think that tells you who was making that line go? I believe Vaak will be good, but I really wanted the B’s to grab Thomas in his draft year.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

I like Heinen in the regular season but to me his play these playoffs was worrisome. Then again, I suppose Pastrnak and Debrusk were both pretty worrisome too this post season.

I'm not sure why we are comparing Heinen to Maroon, he wouldn't even be a top 20 choice to be on the 3rd line over Heinen - but I think we should look to find someone with a bit more jam than Heinen - who that someone may be, I'm not sure.

Johansson played his way out of Boston IMO. As much as I would like him to return, he’s going to get an offer too rich for Boston’s blood.

Is there some reason why the B’s wouldn’t want to add a player with some “jam” to go WITH Coyle and Heinen on that 3rd line (instead of dealing 43 and having two holes to fill)?? I have no idea if he’s available, but I would target a guy like Miles Wood.

 

[EON]

Johansson played his way out of Boston IMO. As much as I would like him to return, he’s going to get an offer too rich for Boston’s blood.

Is there some reason why the B’s wouldn’t want to add a player with some “jam” to go WITH Coyle and Heinen on that 3rd line (instead of dealing 43 and having two holes to fill)?? I have no idea if he’s available, but I would target a guy like Miles Wood.

Very much agree with this as well. As it stands next season, imo the top 9 looks like this:

Marchand-Bergeron-????
DeBrusk-Krejci-Pastrnak
Heinen-Coyle-????

Maybe the rookies fill one or both of these spots, Bjork once looked great on that top line but his health is a concern. Otherwise they will have to seek a trade or a low cost UFA top 9 guy that can plug in anywhere (kind of like a Maroon?). I don't really get why people are so eager to deal Heinen when there are currently two holes to fill, maybe less depending on the young guys coming up.

 

[sarge88]

Very much agree with this as well. As it stands next season, imo the top 9 looks like this:

Marchand-Bergeron-????
DeBrusk-Krejci-Pastrnak
Heinen-Coyle-????

Maybe one of the rookies fill these spots, Bjork once looked great on that top line but his health is a concern. Otherwise they will have to seek a trade or a low cost UFA top 9 guy that can plug in anywhere (kind of like a Maroon?). I don't really get why people are so eager to deal Heinen when there are currently two holes to fill, maybe less depending on the young guys coming up.

Looking at that top 9 I keep coming back to them having to trade Krug. I have no faith in Bjork. I hope Frederick, Senyshyn, maybe Studnicka or Blidh can break into the third line and give them something, but in comparison to the back end, there are too many holes for my liking.

I could live with a back line of:

Chara - McAvoy
Carlo - Grizz
Miller/Moore/Clifton/ Vaak/Lauzon

Much more comfortably than a forward group that doesn't have a Johansson or a similar replacement and a legit guy on Bergeron's or Krejci's right side.

Injuries are inevitable....I'd rather they move Krug and get two legit top 9 guys and hope that one of the younger guys shows something in Providence, on the 4th line or due to injuries, then worry about having too many forwards then, rather than do what they did last year and hope a couple of guys break out at the same time.

 

[BruinDust]

Yeah, I think that tells you who was making that line go? I believe Vaak will be good, but I really wanted the B’s to grab Thomas in his draft year.

Yup, he's a good player and going to get a lot better for them. Would of been great to have gotten him (and that's no knock on Vaak who'll will likely be solid for a long time).

 

[compan]

I’m glad that when a line is successful, you are astute enough to pick and choose who contributes to that success.

When I see a guy like Heinen get moved around a lot and every line he gets put on produces more, call me crazy, but I tend to give that guy some of the credit.

Why are you so defensive about Heinen? You mean to tell me that I am crazy to think I can discern individual effort from teamwork? No need to be passive aggressive because people don’t look at Heinen through the same rose colored glasses.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Why are you so defensive about Heinen? You mean to tell me that I am crazy to think I can discern individual effort from teamwork? No need to be passive aggressive because people don’t look at Heinen through the same rose colored glasses.

I’m probably defensive about Heinen because people say a lot of dumb things about him. That was sarcasm, not passive aggressiveness. And no, I don’t think you are capable of discerning individual effort if you don’t think Heinen contributed to the success of that line.

Back in November, DeBrusk and Krejci struggling. They put Heinen on the wing for a couple of weeks and all of a sudden, the line starts producing. Heinen wasn’t putting up points, but their chances for go up, their chances against go down and the other two guys on the line score.

People say Heinen isn’t a Top 6 player, doesn’t belong there.

Down the stretch, Pasta gets hurt, and Heinen moves to his spot. The line starts producing offensively at a better rate than when Pasta was there and they give up a lot less goals and chances. Heinen puts up roughly a point per game with 63 and 37.

People say that it’s not Heinen, he’s only producing because the other two guys are so good.

I don’t believe in coincidence.

Heinen is not a guy that is going to drive a line. He’s not that gifted. He IS a guy that you can put with good players and he will make the line better. It would be one thing if I was the only one seeing it, but anybody who looks at advanced stats will tell you the same thing because the numbers support it.

 

[UncleRico]

Show me one player who is 10th among forwards on their team in ATOI -- only 4 seconds above the 11th place guy, who isn't a 9th/10th forward?

Also tough to find.

If 9 forwards play more minutes per game than you, I'd say that's a pretty good case for you being the 10th forward.

Even more impressive that he was 6th in points while being 10th in time on ice. That screams to me that he needs more ice time if anything.

.50 points per game while averaging under 15 minutes per game in your career is beast mode.

 

[UncleRico]

So you would want a legitimate 4th liner over a legitimate 3rd liner? That's frightening.

Give me the more productive and better all around player.

I can’t imagine people being upset that the guy who was 10th in average time on ice ended up 6th in points on the team. Maybe one of Cassidy’s biggest mistakes this year was not getting heinen more ice time.

6th in points , 10th in ice time. Didn’t see much ice time in the playoffs but had the best goals for to goals against ratio.

He deserved more ice time for sure.

 

[sarge88]

Even more impressive that he was 6th in points while being 10th in time on ice. That screams to me that he needs more ice time if anything.

.50 points per game while averaging under 15 minutes per game in your career is beast mode.

Except for the inconsistency (5 points in 35 or so games last fall/winter) and the utter lack of any playoff impact at all.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Except for the inconsistency (5 points in 35 or so games last fall/winter) and the utter lack of any playoff impact at all.

David Krejci gets to play this card all the time, so...who were Heinen’s linemates early on when he wasn’t producing?

And you are the one claiming he didn’t have any playoff impact, not me. I think he was part of the line that was the most consistent during the playoffs.

 

[sarge88]

David Krejci gets to play this card all the time, so...who were Heinen’s linemates early on when he wasn’t producing?

And you are the one claiming he didn’t have any playoff impact, not me. I think he was part of the line that was the most consistent during the playoffs.

Therein lies the rub....everything needs to be perfect for him to have any success.

Maybe if he wasn’t shooting the puck into the glass or constantly turning it over from October - February, those guys who you claim hamstrung him would have had more success.

I know for you it’s impossible to consider, but maybe he played a role in the lack of success on the lines he was on for 2/3 of the season.

Or does he only get credit when he’s on a line with guys who have already established that they are quality players for years and they do what they’ve historically done and produce.

Then it’s because of Heinen.

When his line sucks for months, it’s everyone else.

As for the playoffs:

If you’re happy with one goal in 20 something playoff games then great.

I’d take that from a #4/5 defenseman, not what you describe as an impactful 3rd liner.

 

[easton117]

Heinen kinda grew on me as the playoffs went on. Not sure exactly what it was, he seemed more engaged.

However. The one play that stood out to me in game 7 a Blues defender came around the net with the puck, head down green light special all the way and Heinen did a poke check flyby.

If that’s a Maroon (and I’m not saying I want him, but that type) they’re still peeling a Bruin off the ice and once again Boston would’ve been down a player.

I like a 3rd line that can play but also has a bit of jam. Coyle kinda does, MoJo really didn’t although he played hard and Heinen just does not have that.

If he’s going to stick around, like Glorydaze said they need someone on that line that can bang a little. Hell they need it in their top 6 too.

 

[UncleRico]

Except for the inconsistency (5 points in 35 or so games last fall/winter) and the utter lack of any playoff impact at all.

Oh so you talking about when he had backes, JFK, Nordstrom, donato and Frederic as a center for the first half the year.

If you were remotely aware you would realize heinen was working with nothing there and he wasn’t to blame.

Especially since after that stretch his numbers were pretty damn good.

 

[sarge88]

Oh so you talking about when he had backes, JFK, Nordstrom, donato and Frederic as a center for the first half the year.

If you were remotely aware you would realize heinen was working with nothing there and he wasn’t to blame.

Especially since after that stretch his numbers were pretty damn good.

Again when his line mates are lousy it’s their fault that he doesn’t produce but when his line mates are world beaters (and produce like they always have) it’s because of him

Is it also his line mates fault he pretty much missed the net 8/10 times and hit the goalie in the chest the other two for 40 games?

Again.....Heinen can do no wrong.

He’s the reason his line mates are good but never the reason he or they are bad.

 

[Pia8988]

Again when his line mates are lousy it’s their fault that he doesn’t produce but when his line mates are world beaters (and produce like they always have) it’s because of him

Is it also his line mates fault he pretty much missed the net 8/10 times and hit the goalie in the chest the other two for 40 games?

Again.....Heinen can do no wrong.

He’s the reason his line mates are good but never the reason he or they are bad.

This is where context matters.

When someone is bad everywhere he plays and every line he on is worse, that is a thing.

Lines get better with Heinen.


He is not going to be a driving force, but he is a good third wheel on any line 1-3 on the Bruins.

 

[sarge88]

This is where context matters.

When someone is bad everywhere he plays and every line he on is worse, that is a thing.

Lines get better with Heinen.


He is not going to be a driving force, but he is a good third wheel on any line 1-3 on the Bruins.

If he’s playing regularly on line 1-2 they go nowhere.

 

[UncleRico]

Oh so you talking about when he had backes, JFK, Nordstrom, donato and Frederic as a center for the first half the year.

If you were remotely aware you would realize heinen was working with nothing there and he wasn’t to blame.

Especially since after that stretch his numbers were pretty damn good.

Bruins had a 7.7% shooting percentage with heinen on the ice which was 6th among forwards.

His individual shooting percentage was 9.6% which was also 6th among forwards on the team.

So again you couldn’t be more wrong.

 

[PaulD]

Heinen was a passenger the entire run. Definitely one Bruin who was not injured . He avoided contact every shift.

Tomas Plekanec light

 

[UncleRico]

Again when his line mates are lousy it’s their fault that he doesn’t produce but when his line mates are world beaters (and produce like they always have) it’s because of him

Is it also his line mates fault he pretty much missed the net 8/10 times and hit the goalie in the chest the other two for 40 games?

Again.....Heinen can do no wrong.

He’s the reason his line mates are good but never the reason he or they are bad.

Heinens individual shooting percentage was 6th among forwards with a 9.6% shooting percentage on the team.

When he was on the ice the team had a 7.7% shooting percentage which was also 6th on the team.

So he scored above average for the lines he was on. How many false narratives do you want to be proven wrong on because I will go all day?

The only narrative that should be spoken is that he should be played more than he has been. Much better than the 9th/10th forward you are proposing.

 

[PaulD]

I’m probably defensive about Heinen because people say a lot of dumb things about him. That was sarcasm, not passive aggressiveness. And no, I don’t think you are capable of discerning individual effort if you don’t think Heinen contributed to the success of that line.

Back in November, DeBrusk and Krejci struggling. They put Heinen on the wing for a couple of weeks and all of a sudden, the line starts producing. Heinen wasn’t putting up points, but their chances for go up, their chances against go down and the other two guys on the line score.

People say Heinen isn’t a Top 6 player, doesn’t belong there.

Down the stretch, Pasta gets hurt, and Heinen moves to his spot. The line starts producing offensively at a better rate than when Pasta was there and they give up a lot less goals and chances. Heinen puts up roughly a point per game with 63 and 37.

People say that it’s not Heinen, he’s only producing because the other two guys are so good.

I don’t believe in coincidence.

Heinen is not a guy that is going to drive a line. He’s not that gifted. He IS a guy that you can put with good players and he will make the line better. It would be one thing if I was the only one seeing it, but anybody who looks at advanced stats will tell you the same thing because the numbers support it.

Playing with Marchand and Bergie against the leafs that line sucked.. Heinen did not make that line better. He weakened it.

 

[PaulD]

Heinens individual shooting percentage was 6th among forwards with a 9.6% shooting percentage on the team.

When he was on the ice the team had a 7.7% shooting percentage which was also 6th on the team.

So he scored above average for the lines he was on. How many false narratives do you want to be proven wrong on because I will go all day?

The only narrative that should be spoken is that he should be played more than he has been. Much better than the 9th/10th forward you are proposing.

Blues treated him like a bug on a windshield.

 

[UncleRico]

Blues treated him like a bug on a windshield.

Best goals for to goals against ratio in the playoffs for the bruins. 13 goals for with 6 goals against, but be more wrong.

 

[Fenway]

Player Discussion - Danton Heinen V