Player Discussion Danton Heinen IV

[DKH]

Next year is my defining year for Heinen

He can play well with 63 & 37

Defensively he’s a plus and his decision making and hands are high end

He is not physical but takes hits and uses positioning to avoid big contact when he sees a player coming

He’s intriguing to me and I need to get a better read next season

He’s a solid third liner who can play up

I do want to see more and I think he has it

I’d like to play him with Bergeron & Marchand and drop Pastrnak down with Krejci for months

 

[BigGoalBrad]

So you would want a legitimate 4th liner over a legitimate 3rd liner? That's frightening.

Give me the more productive and better all around player.

Agree.

But I think Heinen out clears up enough room to resign Johanssen and I chose the 2nd over 3rd liner every day.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

Didn’t want to comment but Heinen was so brutal in the finals it wasn’t even funny he was our worst player behind Backes. I watched the game last nigh with so many Bruin fans and they all said the same thing. Please stop defending this guy. We are all wrong on this board at times. I sure know I am. But please don’t defend Heinen he sucked big time. And please stick those advanced stats where the sun don’t shine.

jesus christ, posts like this make it impossible for someone like me to advocate for trading heinen without people with opposing opinions lumping me in with the knuckledragger crowd and assuming I want a "banger" to replace him.

 

[sarge88]

So you would want a legitimate 4th liner over a legitimate 3rd liner? That's frightening.

Give me the more productive and better all around player.

I'm saying there isn't a script detailing what every player on the roster has to be. Different players bring different things. Different teams construct their roster differently. It just seems that for some here the things Heinen brings are constantly being overblown and god forbid someone suggest getting a more physical guy to take his place, they are mocked and insulted.

They obviously didn't win a cup with him as a 3rd liner this year and regardless of how people want to twist and contort things to make him look good; 2 goals (one of which was legit) in 24 playoff games isn't anything to be proud of.

Maybe a different type of player would have been more effective, I know it's not something a lot of his fans want to think about.

I mean, look at some of the comments people made when the idea of Maroon coming here was brought up in the past. After watching the past 7 games, who would have on your third line if given the choice? Heinen or Maroon? I say Maroon was significantly more effective than Heinen, but you'll never hear that from a lot of Heinen fans because he's the anti-Danton. Tough, physical, noticeable and giving him credit would be like agreeing with what those of us who don't like him have said all along.

In regard to his future here, for me, he simply doesn't do enough that he should be guaranteed a spot on the third line with no questions asked. Like with a lot of players, I'd expect Sweeney to be looking to see if he could upgrade.

Now, of course it comes down to cost. I wouldn't mind him here on a good contract, but if him staying means that they can't keep Johansson or find a suitable replacement if he goes, then I have no problem sacrificing him.

And before the whole "how do you replace a .50 ppg, 3rd liner" questions start, remember having Johansson (or his replacement) here for an entire year, rather than a couple of months would go far to covering that "loss".

On top of that, is Heinen going to be MIA for 3 1/2 months again next year and then have a modest hot streak only to turn into a .25 ppg guy in the playoffs again?

I mean is it really that hard to fathom that some of us wouldn't mind seeing a different guy in his place next year?

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Show me one player who is 10th among forwards on their team in ATOI -- only 4 seconds above the 11th place guy, who isn't a 9th/10th forward?

Also tough to find.

If 9 forwards play more minutes per game than you, I'd say that's a pretty good case for you being the 10th forward.

I would say that the Bruins distribution of ice time is very unusual in comparison to most teams. Cassidy uses their so called “4th line” a lot more than most. Boston had 7 Forwards between 13-14 minutes TOI during the regular season.

Heinen was 7th among F’s during the regular season for TOI (13:58) and 6th for scoring.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

So you would want a legitimate 4th liner over a legitimate 3rd liner? That's frightening.

Give me the more productive and better all around player.

we just watched a deep playoff run, so the differences in intensity between the regular season and playoffs should be fresh in your mind. Who was the more effective player in the playoffs? Legitimate 3rd liner Danton Heinen, or legitimate 4th liner Sean Kuraly?

I'm 100% ok with replacing a guy like Heinen with a guy who produces less in the regular season, but is physically able to withstand the rigors of the playoffs & doesn't see his production drop off when the games get more physical. As for who that guy is? I don't know. if it was obvious then we'd be talking about a guy no GM wants to give up. Names like Jake Virtanen have been thrown out there in the past & I scoffed at it because Heinen had proven a lot more thus far & had better offensive numbers, but I'm willing to reconsider that now. I think the right guy for that line is either someone from within the org like a Frederic or Studnicka or a low cost, high upside target like Virtanen or Miles Wood. Now I have no idea if those guys would be available, and it may require some creativity like trading Heinen for one piece & then trading something else for the guy you ultimately want.

But I'm convinced after this playoff run that Heinen is expendable. It's not urgent that he be traded and I'm not saying he sucks, but the guy just scored at a measly 27 point pace in the playoffs while consistently playing with arguably the 2 most consistently effective forwards during this run in Coyle & Mojo. I focused on Heinen a lot because I was really hoping to see him break out this year & saw a guy who does all the things we know & expect...good defensively, makes a lot of really smart board plays & one touch passes in transition, etc. but I also saw a guy who couldn't maintain possession consistently when leaned on & didn't look dangerous offensively with the puck on his stick very much at all. I just think his skillset is something we can afford to lose in the interest of finding a guy who can play more in the paint & make opposing goalies' lives harder. This team lacks guys who are willing to play in the paint & Heinen is a guy I'm willing to part with to fill that need.

 

[sarge88]

I would say that the Bruins distribution of ice time is very unusual in comparison to most teams. Cassidy uses their so called “4th line” a lot more than most. Boston had 7 Forwards between 13-14 minutes TOI during the regular season.

Heinen was 7th among F’s during the regular season for TOI (13:58) and 6th for scoring.

You're right...I looked at ATOI in the playoffs where he was 9th.

Which, TBH, I think makes my point.

Once they had the roster they wanted, in the most important games, his role diminished.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

I'm saying there isn't a script detailing what every player on the roster has to be. Different players bring different things. Different teams construct their roster differently. It just seems that for some here the things Heinen brings are constantly being overblown and god forbid someone suggest getting a more physical guy to take his place, they are mocked and insulted.

They obviously didn't win a cup with him as a 3rd liner this year and regardless of how people want to twist and contort things to make him look good; 2 goals (one of which was legit) in 24 playoff games isn't anything to be proud of.

Maybe a different type of player would have been more effective, I know it's not something a lot of his fans want to think about.

I mean, look at some of the comments people made when the idea of Maroon coming here was brought up in the past. After watching the past 7 games, who would have on your third line if given the choice? Heinen or Maroon? I say Maroon was significantly more effective than Heinen, but you'll never hear that from a lot of Heinen fans because he's the anti-Danton. Tough, physical, noticeable and giving him credit would be like agreeing with what those of us who don't like him have said all along.

In regard to his future here, for me, he simply doesn't do enough that he should be guaranteed a spot on the third line with no questions asked. Like with a lot of players, I'd expect Sweeney to be looking to see if he could upgrade.

Now, of course it comes down to cost. I wouldn't mind him here on a good contract, but if him staying means that they can't keep Johansson or find a suitable replacement if he goes, then I have no problem sacrificing him.

And before the whole "how do you replace a .50 ppg, 3rd liner" questions start, remember having Johansson (or his replacement) here for an entire year, rather than a couple of months would go far to covering that "loss".

On top of that, is Heinen going to be MIA for 3 1/2 months again next year and then have a modest hot streak only to turn into a .25 ppg guy in the playoffs again?

I mean is it really that hard to fathom that some of us wouldn't mind seeing a different guy in his place next year?

Heinen...

Regular season:

11g/23a, +13, 16 PIM’s, 13:58, 36 blocks, 54 hits.


Playoffs:

2g/6a, +7, 2 PIM’s, 13:14, 12 blocks, 24 hits

———

Maroon...

Regular season:

10g/18a, -3, 64 PIM’s, 14:10, 7 blocks, 135 hits.


Playoffs:

3g/4a, -3, 8 PIM’s, 12:20, 6 blocks, 54 hits


Pat Maroon was so much more “noticeable” than Heinen? Guess it depends on what your are looking for.

He certainly was more noticeable running his yap in scrums after whistles, but not so much on the scoreboard.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

You're right...I looked at ATOI in the playoffs where he was 9th.

Which, TBH, I think makes my point.

Once they had the roster they wanted, in the most important games, his role diminished.

If Cassidy had given minutes based on effectiveness and not salary/status. Heinen should have gotten more minutes in the playoffs, not less.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

If Cassidy had given minutes based on effectiveness and not salary/status. Heinen should have gotten more minutes in the playoffs, not less.

who had more TOI than Heinen that shouldn't have? The only forward who got more TOI than him that you could argue didn't deserve it was Debrusk.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

Heinen...

Regular season:

11g/23a, +13, 16 PIM’s, 13:58, 36 blocks, 54 hits.


Playoffs:

2g/6a, +7, 2 PIM’s, 13:14, 12 blocks, 24 hits

———

Maroon...

Regular season:

10g/18a, -3, 64 PIM’s, 14:10, 7 blocks, 135 hits.


Playoffs:

3g/4a, -3, 8 PIM’s, 12:20, 6 blocks, 54 hits


Pat Maroon was so much more “noticeable” than Heinen? Guess it depends on what your are looking for.

He certainly was more noticeable running his yap in scrums after whistles, but not so much on the scoreboard.

Thank you for this. I'm at the beach and research is just not possible. I couldn't stop laughing at that post though.

I didn't notice maroon at all.

 

[sarge88]

If Cassidy had given minutes based on effectiveness and not salary/status. Heinen should have gotten more minutes in the playoffs, not less.

So...instead of putting out the team that had a better chance of winning, Cassidy decided to reward guys based on salary/status?

Sounds like a solid way to coach a professional team and keep your job.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

who had more TOI than Heinen that shouldn't have? The only forward who got more TOI than him that you could argue didn't deserve it was Debrusk.

DeBrusk for sure.

There were more than a few games that the 3rd line was significantly more effective than the Top 6. In those games I would have played Mojo-Coyle-Heinen more than either the 1st or 2nd lines.

 

[sarge88]

Heinen...

Regular season:

11g/23a, +13, 16 PIM’s, 13:58, 36 blocks, 54 hits.


Playoffs:

2g/6a, +7, 2 PIM’s, 13:14, 12 blocks, 24 hits

———

Maroon...

Regular season:

10g/18a, -3, 64 PIM’s, 14:10, 7 blocks, 135 hits.


Playoffs:

3g/4a, -3, 8 PIM’s, 12:20, 6 blocks, 54 hits


Pat Maroon was so much more “noticeable” than Heinen? Guess it depends on what your are looking for.

He certainly was more noticeable running his yap in scrums after whistles, but not so much on the scoreboard.

I wonder if any of those 54 hits in the playoffs for Maroon were anywhere as meaningful as Heinen's fancy kick passes?

Maroon was a constant disruptive force on the forecheck.

Heinen was subtly unnoticeable.

 

[YouTakeTheVan]

About what I'd expect from a guy who's really only skill is being a defensive forward who plays limited minutes.

Maybe another guy would score more goals, and be more effective, but in a different way.

You specifically proposed a 25-point guy as a replacement. Worse offense, 10 goals worse just by living in the penalty box, worse defense -- but somehow more effective overall.

Add -- Heinen is a possession monster and a passer, if you want to see more points (aside from developmental improvements of his own), pair him with at least one skilled finisher and start cashing in more like he did with Bergeron/Marchand.

 

[sarge88]

You specifically proposed a 25-point guy as a replacement. Worse offense, 10 goals worse just by living in the penalty box, worse defense -- but somehow more effective overall.

Could be.

Maybe he knocks a guy out in the playoffs with a clean, hard hit and it turns a series around?

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

You specifically proposed a 25-point guy as a replacement. Worse offense, 10 goals worse just by living in the penalty box, worse defense -- but somehow more effective overall.

Because he hits and stuff.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

So...instead of putting out the team that had a better chance of winning, Cassidy decided to reward guys based on salary/status?

Sounds like a solid way to coach a professional team.

In your opinion, with the way the Top 6 played during long stretches of time, would you say that the 3rd line was more or less effective than the 1st and 2nd lines?

Would you say that the Bruins would have a better or worse chance of winning by playing the players that were more effective/playing better?

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

 

[sarge88]

Because he hits and stuff.

Better than "not hitting and very little other stuff".

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Thank you for this. I'm at the beach and research is just not possible. I couldn't stop laughing at that post though.

I didn't notice maroon at all.

His playoff beard was definitely head and shoulders better than Heinen’s.

 

[NDiesel]

Heinen...

Regular season:

11g/23a, +13, 16 PIM’s, 13:58, 36 blocks, 54 hits.


Playoffs:

2g/6a, +7, 2 PIM’s, 13:14, 12 blocks, 24 hits

———

Maroon...

Regular season:

10g/18a, -3, 64 PIM’s, 14:10, 7 blocks, 135 hits.


Playoffs:

3g/4a, -3, 8 PIM’s, 12:20, 6 blocks, 54 hits


Pat Maroon was so much more “noticeable” than Heinen? Guess it depends on what your are looking for.

He certainly was more noticeable running his yap in scrums after whistles, but not so much on the scoreboard.

I definitely noticed Maroon more than Heinen this post season. You will defend Heinen until the day he is gone, but he was an absolute no show in the playoffs. And I'm not sure your stats really reflect much of anything. Heinen had 1 more point in 1 minute more of ice time plus 30 less hits. Those 30 hits alone make Maroon more effective in a 7 game playoff series and for you to argue otherwise is mind boggling.

The sad fact is he played with two of our best players in the playoff run - Johansson at 11 points and Coyle at 16 points - and was still somehow invisible.

The final nail in the coffin was in the cup finals:
Heinen - 0 goals, 1 point, 8 shots -3 in 7 games played, 12.35 avg ice time

I love all the little things he does defensively, but that is an unacceptable stat line.

He's far from the first person to blame for our loss, but when we needed our depth to show up he completely wilted.

Maroon wouldn't be my replacement choice for Heinen either way, but to say he was more noticeable than Maroon is untrue.

 

[sarge88]

In your opinion, with the way the Top 6 played during long stretches of time, would you say that the 3rd line was more or less effective than the 1st and 2nd lines?

Would you say that the Bruins would have a better or worse chance of winning by playing the players that were more effective/playing better?

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

You're assuming that I agree that Heinen was or would be any more effective than the top 6, which I don't.

Nothing would have changed if Heinen played where he did...if he was benched... if he played on line 1, 2, or 4, IMO.

He's just not a guy who makes a difference.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

His playoff beard was definitely head and shoulders better than Heinen’s.

Heinen gets an F for his beard. This coming from someone who can't grow more than stubble lol

 

[GloryDaze4877]

I wonder if any of those 54 hits in the playoffs for Maroon were anywhere as meaningful as Heinen's fancy kick passes?

Maroon was a constant disruptive force on the forecheck.

Heinen was subtly unnoticeable.

I honestly didn’t notice Maroon AT ALL.

Disruptive force?

Barbashev, Sundqvist, Sanford, Schenn all disruptive and noticeable.

Maroon not so much. I remember one nice play he made in 7 games.

 

[sarge88]

I definitely noticed Maroon more than Heinen this post season. You will defend Heinen until the day he is gone, but he was an absolute no show in the playoffs. And I'm not sure your stats really reflect much of anything. Heinen had 1 more point in 1 minute more of ice time plus 30 less hits. Those 30 hits alone make Maroon more effective in a 7 game playoff series and for you to argue otherwise is mind boggling.

The sad fact is he played with two of our best players in the playoff run - Johansson at 11 points and Coyle at 16 points - and was still somehow invisible.

The final nail in the coffin was in the cup finals:
Heinen - 0 goals, 1 point, 8 shots -3 in 7 games played, 12.35 avg ice time

I love all the little things he does defensively, but that is an unacceptable stat line.

He's far from the first person to blame for our loss, but when we needed our depth to show up he completely wilted.

Maroon wouldn't be my replacement choice for Heinen either way, but to say he was more noticeable than Maroon is untrue.

And to be clear, I'm not pinning this loss on Heinen...far more players didn't live up to expectations and had a bigger role in the loss.

He is what he is....just a vanilla, run of the mill player.

As for Maroon, I agree entirely.

 

[sarge88]

I honestly didn’t notice Maroon AT ALL.

Disruptive force?

Barbashev, Sundqvist, Sanford, Schenn all disruptive and noticeable.

Maroon not so much. I remember one nice play he made in 7 games.

More than I can say for Heinen.