Player Discussion Danton Heinen III

[Chief Nine]

hahah sorry two different things

Reilly Smith was hated here for being "soft" and the Blues thing was the rumor of Heinen and or Gryz for Schenn

Lol! I thought that's who you were talking about but I was like St. Louis??

My issue with Reilly Smith was he just seemed like he didn't want to be here after I think it was his 2nd year here. I saw him vs. the Red Wings when he was on Bergeron's line with Marchand and he made a ridiculous pass through the crease for an assist. Seemed like that happened with FLA as well after his 1st season there too

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Or, he really wasn't playing all that well, as evidenced by his benchings, drop in minutes, demotion to lower lines, etc.

Then again, maybe I'm just dumb and am forgetting that pro sports are littered with guys playing well who are benched and demoted.

Just a different thought.

Jake DeBrusk...Good player?

Chris Wagner?...Good player?

John Moore?... Good player?

Kevan Miller...Good player?

All guys that have been benched this year alone in Boston.

I keep hearing what an awesome player Donato is now that he’s in Minny. He was benched multiple times.

Even Heinen’s biggest fans said that he needed to produce more. That was never a question. The objection was to the people saying that he was some useless scrub that didn’t belong in the NHL, even though from a defensive standpoint, he was playing well, and the lines he was on had good advanced stats.

When he got moved from the 2nd line to the 3rd/4th line was it a demotion, or was he one of the few guys they had that was defensively responsible enough to play with Donato and JFK? Maybe the once/twice he was benched was because Cassidy expected more out of him (I think the same was true for DeBrusk).

 

[LouJersey]

Lol! I thought that's who you were talking about but I was like St. Louis??

My issue with Reilly Smith was he just seemed like he didn't want to be here after I think it was his 2nd year here. I saw him vs. the Red Wings when he was on Bergeron's line with Marchand and he made a ridiculous pass through the crease for an assist. Seemed like that happened with FLA as well after his 1st season there too

Smith's last year here was the worst Bruins team we have seen in quite sometime. They were a mess.

 

[Chief Nine]

Smith's last year here was the worst Bruins team we have seen in quite sometime. They were a mess.

Yes they were and he clearly didn't want any part of being here, it was very obvious

 

[TwineTickler]

Does it really matter at the end of the day if his plays are resulting in goals?

A little bit... I think the coaches and upper management probably agree. Just play devils advocate if you will...

I'm all for leaving Heinen up with Bergeron and Marchand if that's what they think is the best option, and I'm also all for having him go down to line 2 or 3... the confidence he currently has from being up on line you would hope helps him continue that play/success wherever he moves. Coyle needs help from someone.

 

[sarge88]

Jake DeBrusk...Good player?

Chris Wagner?...Good player?

John Moore?... Good player?

Kevan Miller...Good player?

All guys that have been benched this year alone in Boston.

I keep hearing what an awesome player Donato is now that he’s in Minny. He was benched multiple times.

Even Heinen’s biggest fans said that he needed to produce more. That was never a question. The objection was to the people saying that he was some useless scrub that didn’t belong in the NHL, even though from a defensive standpoint, he was playing well, and the lines he was on had good advanced stats.

When he got moved from the 2nd line to the 3rd/4th line was it a demotion, or was he one of the few guys they had that was defensively responsible enough to play with Donato and JFK? Maybe the once/twice he was benched was because Cassidy expected more out of him (I think the same was true for DeBrusk).

You're confusing good players being benched at some point in their careers with players who may be good, being benched when they weren't playing well.

Neely was benched once, he's still a HOF player, but at that point in time his coach and GM didn't feel he was playing well, hence his benching.

Again, as I've said a dozen times. People were far too willing to make excuses for this kid when he was playing lousy for extended stretches of time from October - February. Was he terrible every single shift he played for 4 months? No way....nobody who is on an NHL roster can play lousy for 4 straight months (possibly with the exception of Zach Trotman). But he was nowhere near as effective as many made him out to be when he was going 25 games with 5 points or 30 games with 6-7.

Glad he's doing well right now.

Would I be ecstatic if they could move him in the off season for a guy who produces as much but is more physical?
Of course.....and I would hope that everyone feels the same way.

Do I expect that to happen?
No.

Will I be upset if he's back next year on line 2 or 3?
Not if he continues to produce somewhere close to the way he has for the last month or so.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

You're confusing good players being benched at some point in their careers with players who may be good, being benched when they weren't playing well.

Neely was benched once, he's still a HOF player, but at that point in time his coach and GM didn't feel he was playing well, hence his benching.

Again, as I've said a dozen times. People were far too willing to make excuses for this kid when he was playing lousy for extended stretches of time from October - February. Was he terrible every single shift he played for 4 months? No way....nobody who is on an NHL roster can play lousy for 4 straight months (possibly with the exception of Zach Trotman). But he was nowhere near as effective as many made him out to be when he was going 25 games with 5 points or 30 games with 6-7.

Glad he's doing well right now.

Would I be ecstatic if they could move him in the off season for a guy who produces as much but is more physical?
Of course.....and I would hope that everyone feels the same way.

Do I expect that to happen?
No.

Will I be upset if he's back next year on line 2 or 3?
Not if he continues to produce somewhere close to the way he has for the last month or so.

Just curious.... Are you insinuating that Heinen isn't a good player? He's in this "may be good" player class?

Heinen has played in 150 career games and has produced 75 points over that span, which is a 0.50 PPG clip while bringing sound two-way play throughout. Heinen, who struggled early in this season, is now on pace for 34 points. If he reaches that number, he would be 5 points off from producing at a 0.50 PPG pace this season. Obviously, things could change... That number could grow or maybe it shrinks (or hell, he even reaches the 39 point mark).

 

[maxbme]

You're confusing good players being benched at some point in their careers with players who may be good, being benched when they weren't playing well.

Neely was benched once, he's still a HOF player, but at that point in time his coach and GM didn't feel he was playing well, hence his benching.

Again, as I've said a dozen times. People were far too willing to make excuses for this kid when he was playing lousy for extended stretches of time from October - February. Was he terrible every single shift he played for 4 months? No way....nobody who is on an NHL roster can play lousy for 4 straight months (possibly with the exception of Zach Trotman). But he was nowhere near as effective as many made him out to be when he was going 25 games with 5 points or 30 games with 6-7.

Glad he's doing well right now.

Would I be ecstatic if they could move him in the off season for a guy who produces as much but is more physical?
Of course.....and I would hope that everyone feels the same way.

Do I expect that to happen?
No.

Will I be upset if he's back next year on line 2 or 3?
Not if he continues to produce somewhere close to the way he has for the last month or so.

Is the physical guy coming as good defensively? If not, I'm going to pass. He might not be banging bodies, but he's great on the forecheck. He definitely has areas to improve, but the base of his game is fantastic.

I don't think he had a horrible start to the season, he was still very strong defensively and playing intelligently, he just wasn't producing, but literally no one has produced on that third line this season. Coyle has been very good here, but he just picked up his first point last game. Frederic has 0 points in 11 games. Backes has 15 points all season When Debrusk, Pasta and Mojo come back we can finally have the depth to have a line that not just works defensively, but can also produce.

Heinen isn't able to drive a line offensively right now, but when he's with talent he produces and he does more than enough defensively.

 

[sarge88]

Just curious.... Are you insinuating that Heinen isn't a good player? He's in this "may be good" player class?

Heinen has played in 150 career games and has produced 75 points over that span, which is a 0.50 PPG clip while bringing sound two-way play throughout. Heinen, who struggled early in this season, is now on pace for 34 points. If he reaches that number, he would be 5 points off from producing at a 0.50 PPG pace this season. Obviously, things could change... That number could grow or maybe it shrinks (or hell, he even reaches the 39 point mark).

I guess all I'm saying is what I've said every step of the way: I'm happy with him when he's playing well and producing and I'm critical of him when he's not and I'm not going to make up things to insinuate he's something he isn't. I'd be a fool to say he's not playing well right now. Just as I think it was silly for people to act like he wasn't a problem when he wasn't scoring.

In October - February he was terrible for long stretches of time: disengaged, turning the puck over, missing the net wildly on a consistent basis. When that happened and I said he was playing badly, it was met by many with excuses or justifications.

I think he can be a good player, but also think he could be out of the league in 3 years. He strikes me as the type of guy who needs everything to be in perfect harmony in order to produce. Right line mates, right match-ups, right frame of mind, good puck-luck, etc.

What happens if they put Pasta back in his spot and he's on the 3rd line with Coyle and Johansson? Are those two players good enough to allow him to be productive? Maybe.

But there's also a chance that what he's doing right now is simply a by-product of playing with Bergeron and Marchand.

Again....there are no absolutes.

If they could move him for a 45 point guy who is tougher, I'd hope they'd do that immediately.

If he's here for 10 years, scoring 40-45 points a year and playing well defensively, great!

But if he's here next year and has month long stretches of time where he's scoring a point a week again, then it's a problem.

 

[sarge88]

Is the physical guy coming as good defensively? If not, I'm going to pass. He might not be banging bodies, but he's great on the forecheck. He definitely has areas to improve, but the base of his game is fantastic.

I don't think he had a horrible start to the season, he was still very strong defensively and playing intelligently, he just wasn't producing, but literally no one has produced on that third line this season. Coyle has been very good here, but he just picked up his first point last game. Frederic has 0 points in 11 games. Backes has 15 points all season When Debrusk, Pasta and Mojo come back we can finally have the depth to have a line that not just works defensively, but can also produce.

Heinen isn't able to drive a line offensively right now, but when he's with talent he produces and he does more than enough defensively.

Let's say he's 3/4 as good defensively. I'd still take him over Heinen, who I do think is over rated defensively.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

Let's say he's 3/4 as good defensively. I'd still take him over Heinen, who I do think is over rated defensively.

Getting pretty nick-picky here. You may just have to keep Heinen

 

[sarge88]

Getting pretty nick-picky here. You may just have to keep Heinen

I'd take a 40 point banger who could hold his own defensively (not looking for a Selke candidate) over Heinen, any day, wouldn't you?

 

[Don Cherry]

I'd take a 40 point banger who could hold his own defensively (not looking for a Selke candidate) over Heinen, any day, wouldn't you?

I would!

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

I'd take a 40 point banger who could hold his own defensively (not looking for a Selke candidate) over Heinen, any day, wouldn't you?

Depends, really. I think Heinen has shown he has the upside to be a 45-50+ point winger. The only player I can think of right now that I'd trade Heinen for, that fits this kind of mold, would be Josh Anderson from Columbus.

I know Jake Virtanen was a flavor here when Heinen was struggling.... I wonder how many people would still do that swap.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

danton Heinen now has 75 points in 150 games over his 2 seasons... hes considered fairly decent defensively on top of this... lets look at his comparables for contract since I just saw someone say 2 mill for 2 years seams reasonable

Anthony mantha got 84 points before signing for 2 years 3.3 mill... can Heinen get another 9 points this year?

max domi had 83 points before signing 2 years and 3.1 mill

ryan strome 64 points before signing 2 years at 3.1 mill

andreas anthiousou 74 points and starts a 2 year 3 mill deal this next season

andrea burakovky 73 points and is just finishing his 2 year 3 mill deal signed 2 years ago

chris Tierney 63 points 2 years and 2.937 mill

ondrej kase and oliver bjorkstrom are both over 2.5mill

danton Heinen IS ARBITRATION ELIGIBLE... and it wouldnt take a rocket scientist to peg his performance right in the middle of this group of comparables. hes an easy 3 mill contract if he goes to arbitration.

now... the thing is... I was saying trade him instead of pay him... but his recent performance has me rethinking. we can afford a 3 mill guy on the 3rd line with coyle. does danton Heinen make the 3rd line work?

id like to see him and coyle together before we have to make the tough call. im leaning towards the idea of keeping him even though its a rather naïve daydream to imagine he would sign for 2 year at 2 mill.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

next year we have 65, 221,666 committed to these 16 players

pastrnak/Bergeron/marchand
X?X/krejci/debrusk
Backes/Coyle/X?X
Wagner/X?X/Kuraly
X?X/Nordstrom

X?X/Grzelyck
X?X/X?X
Miller/Krug
Moore

Rask
Halak

lets assume the NHL is being honest when they hint the cap is going up to a min 82

we do have money to fill the missing spots. Up front we will likely promote a couple kids... lets say federic, kuhlman, Bjork so thats takes us to 68 mill and still leaves 4 holes and 14 mill to fill

McAvoy {estimated 6}
Carlo {estimated 4}
Heinen {estimated 3}

leaves 1 spot left unfilled... a defensemen... leaves us 1 mill to fill it.

the guy I assume will fill it is chara but it seems rather obvious that vaakanainen and even lauzon should be in the NHL next year. I think we need to consider trading miller. if we do trade miller and replace him with a guy making elc contract then we will have 2 mill to give to chara.

im leaving accari out of the equation but even if he returns it isnt likely to change much. he wont be getting a significant raise if he returns

I am leaving backes on the team. obviously if we deal him we end up with more money. but we dont HAVE to trade him

we have only 2 missing spots on the top 3 lines... and with both Heinen/and Bjork needing a scoring spot we dont actually need to bring anyone in to fill these spots {unless you dont want Heinen/Bjork in the lineup}

the cap is in very good shape here today... much much much much better than I predicted. but we have to expect Heinen will get paid

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

I will weigh in on his change in production with my theory

Heinen is ok... but not great. I think everything needs to be lined up for him to succeed at a high level. health/focus/linemates. hes not a guy that DRIVES a line, but rather he is someone with the skills that allow him to KEEP UP with a line.

meanwhile he plays a fairly responsible game so even if things arent going great he is still fairly useful.

he ends up being the type of guy most fans will want to upgrade on. if the opportunity was present, most fans would say that they dream of a better player in heinens spot. reality is that there is a cap to worry about though. if Heinen Is at maximum production levels... hes probably worth the money he will command. hes the type of guy that can fit into a winning roster and find a useful spot.

you wouldnt ever want to count on a guy like Heinen to be a core player on a top 6 spot up front because he can easily disappear at times. but, when he is hot its very good depth to have a guy like this on your third line that is capable of stepping up

 

[DKH]

Ok time to get Heinen off the first line - switch with Coyle

Sorry Danton we need the Cap space

Pastrnak injury screwing us with Heinen & DeBrusk

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

Ok time to get Heinen off the first line - switch with Coyle

Sorry Danton we need the Cap space

Pastrnak injury screwing us with Heinen & DeBrusk

I was just thinking during the game last night that the Pasta injury was the best thing that could have happened to the Bruins because if finally got Heinen to seize a spot in the top 6.

 

[ODAAT]

I will weigh in on his change in production with my theory

Heinen is ok... but not great. I think everything needs to be lined up for him to succeed at a high level. health/focus/linemates. hes not a guy that DRIVES a line, but rather he is someone with the skills that allow him to KEEP UP with a line.

meanwhile he plays a fairly responsible game so even if things arent going great he is still fairly useful.

he ends up being the type of guy most fans will want to upgrade on. if the opportunity was present, most fans would say that they dream of a better player in heinens spot. reality is that there is a cap to worry about though. if Heinen Is at maximum production levels... hes probably worth the money he will command. hes the type of guy that can fit into a winning roster and find a useful spot.

you wouldnt ever want to count on a guy like Heinen to be a core player on a top 6 spot up front because he can easily disappear at times. but, when he is hot its very good depth to have a guy like this on your third line that is capable of stepping up

well said, I`m an unapologetic fanboy of his but I view him as a terrific complimentary player which is pretty much what I think you described very well here.

I think he`s a 45-60 pt guy in the NHL, perhaps a touch more if on a line with "drivers" of a line

Sure nice to see him playing well, what`s the team got left? 10-11? If say Heinen puts up 6-7 pts that`s 35 and only a dozen behind his season last year with an absolutely dreadful bulk of this one being a power outage, guy is putting pts up like crazy now and that`s also with 2-4 healthy scratches too I think

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Let's say he's 3/4 as good defensively. I'd still take him over Heinen, who I do think is over rated defensively.

When you come up with some stats that support your theory that he’s “overrated” defensively, I will give it some credence. Everything I have seen up to this point suggests differently.

Since he’s been on the first line, they are giving up something ridiculous like .5 GA/60 and scoring at a rate similar or better than when Pasta was on that line.

For the last couple of years, B’s fans have been begging for secondary scoring and two lines. Now they have found a guy who appears to mesh well with Marchand and Bergeron, which would allow them to move Pasta onto a line with DK and JDB...

And you want to trade him as soon as possible for a 40 pt player who is tougher and 3/4 as good defensively.

This is why we can’t have nice things. Not to mention that 40 point guys who are tough and sound defensively are one of the rarest commodities in the NHL

If you can name more than two players that fit that description, and are available, I would be surprised.

Off the top of my head:

Tom Wilson, Brady Tkachuk, Tyler Bertuzzi, Josh Anderson, Ferland, JT Miller. Am I missing anyone?

Of those guys, are any available other than Ferland? If you want a banger that bad, you can pay $5-6m for Ferland I guess?

 

[ODAAT]

When you come up with some stats that support your theory that he’s “overrated” defensively, I will give it some credence. Everything I have seen up to this point suggests differently.

Since he’s been on the first line, they are giving up something ridiculous like .5 GA/60 and scoring at a rate similar or better than when Pasta was on that line.

For the last couple of years, B’s fans have been begging for secondary scoring and two lines. Now they have found a guy who appears to mesh well with Marchand and Bergeron, which would allow them to move Pasta onto a line with DK and JDB...

And you want to trade him as soon as possible for a 40 pt player who is tougher and 3/4 as good defensively.

This is why we can’t have nice things. Not to mention that 40 point guys who are tough and sound defensively are one of the rarest commodities in the NHL

If you can name more than two players that fit that description, and are available, I would be surprised.

Off the top of my head:

Tom Wilson, Brady Tkachuk, Tyler Bertuzzi, Josh Anderson, Ferland, JT Miller. Am I missing anyone?

Of those guys, are any available other than Ferland? If you want a banger that bad, you can pay $5-6m for Ferland I guess?

well said friend

 

[maxbme]

When you come up with some stats that support your theory that he’s “overrated” defensively, I will give it some credence. Everything I have seen up to this point suggests differently.

Since he’s been on the first line, they are giving up something ridiculous like .5 GA/60 and scoring at a rate similar or better than when Pasta was on that line.

For the last couple of years, B’s fans have been begging for secondary scoring and two lines. Now they have found a guy who appears to mesh well with Marchand and Bergeron, which would allow them to move Pasta onto a line with DK and JDB...

And you want to trade him as soon as possible for a 40 pt player who is tougher and 3/4 as good defensively.

This is why we can’t have nice things. Not to mention that 40 point guys who are tough and sound defensively are one of the rarest commodities in the NHL

If you can name more than two players that fit that description, and are available, I would be surprised.

Off the top of my head:

Tom Wilson, Brady Tkachuk, Tyler Bertuzzi, Josh Anderson, Ferland, JT Miller. Am I missing anyone?

Of those guys, are any available other than Ferland? If you want a banger that bad, you can pay $5-6m for Ferland I guess?

Its up to you to decide how much stock you put in the way @EvolvingWild calculates these but Heinen looks better than every one of those guys, besides maybe Miller. At what he's going to cost, and the way his game will age, I take Heinen every time.

Here is him compared to Anderson over the past 2 years.

 

[maxbme]

I posted about this before the season began, but there is one ex-Bruin who Heinen really reminds me of and has had a pretty remarkably similar career to so far.

Age 22

GP	G	A	PTS	PPG	CF%	CF% Rel	Shot per Game
77	16	31	47	.61	54.7%	1.9	1.75
81	21	24	45	.56	51.8%	.9	1.85

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Age 23

GP	G	A	PTS	PPG	CF%	CF Rel%	Shot per Game
65	9	19	28	.43	52.6	.4	1.55
82	18	20	38	.46	54.1	-.5	1.94

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Any guesses to who it is?

 

[sarge88]

When you come up with some stats that support your theory that he’s “overrated” defensively, I will give it some credence. Everything I have seen up to this point suggests differently.

Since he’s been on the first line, they are giving up something ridiculous like .5 GA/60 and scoring at a rate similar or better than when Pasta was on that line.

For the last couple of years, B’s fans have been begging for secondary scoring and two lines. Now they have found a guy who appears to mesh well with Marchand and Bergeron, which would allow them to move Pasta onto a line with DK and JDB...

And you want to trade him as soon as possible for a 40 pt player who is tougher and 3/4 as good defensively.

This is why we can’t have nice things. Not to mention that 40 point guys who are tough and sound defensively are one of the rarest commodities in the NHL

If you can name more than two players that fit that description, and are available, I would be surprised.

Off the top of my head:

Tom Wilson, Brady Tkachuk, Tyler Bertuzzi, Josh Anderson, Ferland, JT Miller. Am I missing anyone?

Of those guys, are any available other than Ferland? If you want a banger that bad, you can pay $5-6m for Ferland I guess?

1. Doesn’t kill penalties.

2. Show me the guy who can’t play and be statistically successful with Bergeron and Marchand.

3. I also said, absent getting the guy I described, I’d be fine with him sticking around. Of course this is provided he doesn’t succeed his way to another 5 points in 25 game stretch or hustle his way into another stint in the point a week club for a month or so.

4. Lastly, as we see with guys like Wagner, toughness and hitting can be a useful part of the game. So if a guy scored at the same pace, was 3/4 as good defensively and 5x as tough/physical, he could be more effective, depending on the makeup of the team.