Player Discussion Daniel Sprong

[nbducksfan19]

Defenseman who are more defensive minded are harder to project and usually don't get the draft hype from the media. That's nothing new. I can't think of any D prospects who are labeled something like "elite shutdown defender" so we shouldn't pretend that's a thing. Typically they're project is "top 4 defenseman" or something vanilla like that. Honestly, I think you're fixating a bit too much on offensive minded defenseman. To be fair, the media does the same thing. However, why would Murray spend a 2nd round pick on Pettersson, when he only spent a 4th on Vatanen? That's because there's more to evaluating players than stat sheets. There's potential, eye tests, etc. Clearly they saw something in Pettersson that they figured he'd be more than a "depth d man".



No, I'm sorry, but that's not it. Look at the first post I replied to on this thread. I'm saying your description for Pettersson seems very unfair. It's not just here. It's both places you've discussed the trade. You're referring to Sprong as "high upside prospect" and Pettersson as "dime a dozen asset" and "serviceable depth d man". Like I've already said, maybe you're not intending to, but your descriptions of the players seem very lopsided. That's not me taking things out of context, that's bad word usage on your part.



I agree with everything here. Like I said, your and I's views on the trade really aren't that difficult. As I mentioned in my initial response, I think your descriptions (or at least part) of Pettersson are just flawed.

Agree to disagree. First, I think you are dead wrong about the draft- there are many Dman in their draft year are noted as being defensive d-men (even top ranked ones). Off the top of my head, Filip Johansson, Urho Vaakanainen, Samuel Morin, or our very own Jacob Larsson. Also, picking a guy in the second round who you think has 4-6 Dman upside, especially if you believe he has a high probability of being an nhl player in some capacity, happens all the time. The large majority of 2nd round picks don't play and NHL game, so if there is a guy there you think has a high probability of being a middle pairing or depth dman, you take him. All drafting isn't an indication of what management thinks upsides of players are, it is largely about probability of reaching said upside. The reason Vatanen was a 4th round pick and Pettersson was a 2nd is in no way an indication of who had higher upside, it was about the fact that players like Vatenen were seen as unlikely to make the NHL (at that time).

I don't know why you feel inclined to change my opinion that Pettersson has limited upside, while presenting very little in the way of facts to prove your point. IMO Pettersson has limited upside, but is almost certainly a minimum solid 3rd paring d-man, and has the potential to be an average second paring Dman. Sprong could be out of the NHL in 2 years, or be a 30+ goal scoring winger. Higher risk, higher reward.

 

[branmuffin17]

I don't think Larsson was projected as a defensive D...more of a 2-way D.

Jacob Larsson at eliteprospects.com

Other than that, I would say I'm in agreement that Pettersson will never be a top pairing kind of guy, but he's solid 3rd pairing and can fill in for 2nd pairing when needed...and agreed also on Sprong risk/reward.

 

[Ducks DVM]

• TSN Scouting Report: "Upside, upside, upside. Needs physical maturing but with it, could be a top defenseman. Excellent thinker with poise, good feetwork, competes, reads play well and will assert himself. Could be a 'steal' in this draft."
• Ryan Kennedy at TheHockeyNews.com:"One scout said Pettersson has the most upside of any European in the draft. A big kid who covers a lot of ground, Pettersson has an edge to his game and can move the puck pretty decently. He has a ways to go, but he’s already playing up with the men in Skelleftea after a successful start to the campaign in junior."

Getting to Know Marcus Pettersson, 38 Overall

 

[bsu]

Has an edge to his game.... Hahhahha can't respect anything that "scout" says

 

[branmuffin17]

It's on his skates.

 

[Trojans86]

Has an edge to his game.... Hahhahha can't respect anything that "scout" says

Seriously. Seems like a completely different player. Also, a draft report during the draft is very different than a report after a player has played a meaningful amount of time in the NHL. You could have a draft report of a lottery pick with tons of upside and after a couple of years in the system that same player has really struggled and his upside is a mediocre AHL player. At that point the upside from an old draft report is meaningless

 

[bsu]

Everyone says "upside" for every player it's a way of saying if he pans out I was right if I am wrong then I said upside so don't hold me accountable.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

Has an edge to his game.... Hahhahha can't respect anything that "scout" says

Lol reminds me of when Craig Button compared Cam Fowler to Francois Beauchemin in 2010 draft coverage. I still remember that draft in the back of my head, still remember Murray grinning when he got up to announce the pick because Dallas had passed on him.

Looking at it again i can't believe the Panthers whiffed on 2 1st round picks: Gudbranson & Howden, then in the 2nd they take McFarland. They had 5 picks in the top 60 & only Bjugstad to show for it.

 

[Exit Dose]

Pettersson does have an edge to his game. We've seen him engage physically both in play and after the whistle.

 

[bsu]

Pettersson does have an edge to his game. We've seen him engage physically both in play and after the whistle.

Not at all.

 

[Deuce22]

Lol reminds me of when Craig Button compared Cam Fowler to Francois Beauchemin in 2010 draft coverage. I still remember that draft in the back of my head, still remember Murray grinning when he got up to announce the pick because Dallas had passed on him.

Looking at it again i can't believe the Panthers whiffed on 2 1st round picks: Gudbranson & Howden, then in the 2nd they take McFarland. They had 5 picks in the top 60 & only Bjugstad to show for it.

The only thing similar about Fowler and Beauchemin's games are that they shoot left handed.

 

[nbducksfan19]

Pettersson does have an edge to his game. We've seen him engage physically both in play and after the whistle.

That's like saying a player is a shooter because we have seen them shoot before. Being accurately described as physical and being physical occasionally in a sport where physicality is nearly unavoidable, are very different things...

 

[Exit Dose]

Everyone says "upside" for every player it's a way of saying if he pans out I was right if I am wrong then I said upside so don't hold me accountable.

I'd say that you couldn't be more wrong, but I know that's not true. Guess what, when a player is 18 years old you don't have a definitive idea of what that players is going to be. You have a range of possibilities based on limited information. That's what 'upside' refers to. That range shrinks over time as you begin to dial in on what they are going to be by watching how they develop. This lack of understanding is why your proclamations are so absurd most of the time, and it is hilarious that you state the above while currently contending that Ritchie is just 'lucky' in other threads.

 

[Exit Dose]

That's like saying a player is a shooter because we have seen them shoot before. Being accurately described as physical and being physical occasionally in a sport where physicality is nearly unavoidable, are very different things...

He's currently undersized. If you pay attention, it is clear that he wants to play a game that he currently can't. He would get destroyed if he tried to play that way right now. Thankfully his problem is muscle mass and not height.

 

[nbducksfan19]

He's currently undersized. If you pay attention, it is clear that he wants to play a game that he currently can't. He would get destroyed if he tried to play that way right now. Thankfully his problem is muscle mass and not height.

That is so wrong. Being physical is as much a mentality as it is a size/weight thing. Niklas kronwall was one of the most physical d-men of all time and was small than cam fowler.

 

[nbducksfan19]

double post.

 

[Exit Dose]

That is so wrong. Being physical is as much a mentality as it is a size/weight thing. Niklas kronwall was one of the most physical d-men of all time and was small than cam fowler.

That is not even true in the slightest bit. Players lacking the body mass to follow through on play like that do not enter the league playing that way. Short players do the opposite. Any player as thin as Pettersson is won't be playing in the NHL by season's end if they play that way. Finding an outlier doesn't change that.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

That is so wrong. Being physical is as much a mentality as it is a size/weight thing. Niklas kronwall was one of the most physical d-men of all time and was small than cam fowler.

Dumba is undersized too & likes to hit alot, same with Vatanen somewhat.

 

[bsu]

Pettersson is not physical at all, matter of fact he may be one of our least physical defensemen in a long time including fowler.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

Erik Karlsson is a hitting machine compared to Petterssen.

 

[nbducksfan19]

That is not even true in the slightest bit. Players lacking the body mass to follow through on play like that do not enter the league playing that way. Short players do the opposite. Any player as thin as Pettersson is won't be playing in the NHL by season's end if they play that way. Finding an outlier doesn't change that.

For someone who just commented that another poster couldn't be anymore wrong....pot met kettle.

Look it doesn't take overwhelming size to get engaged physically. Anyone who has played sports in their life can think of guys they played with who had no business being as physical as they were, at their size, but they just engaged anyways because they loved it. It doesn't even take size to show your propensity for physicality - cross checks/face washes/general nastiness. Unless you were watching a differ Pettersson, he does not engage in that physical/nasty part of the game. Not in his DNA. Nothing particularity wrong with that, but to argue that Peterson is not physical strictly because he is skinny is baloney.

Not to mention, this was all referencing how wrong a draft analysis of Pettersson was nonsense because it described him as physical. Do you think it was accurate and he was physical as a 17 year old playing in a men's league? Was he 220 pounds then, but then lost weight as he matured?

 

[Exit Dose]

For someone who just commented that another poster couldn't be anymore wrong....pot met kettle.

Look it doesn't take overwhelming size to get engaged physically. Anyone who has played sports in their life can think of guys they played with who had no business being as physical as they were, at their size, but they just engaged anyways because they loved it. It doesn't even take size to show your propensity for physicality - cross checks/face washes/general nastiness. Unless you were watching a differ Pettersson, he does not engage in that physical/nasty part of the game. Not in his DNA. Nothing particularity wrong with that, but to argue that Peterson is not physical strictly because he is skinny is baloney.

Not to mention, this was all referencing how wrong a draft analysis of Pettersson was nonsense because it described him as physical. Do you think it was accurate and he was physical as a 17 year old playing in a men's league? Was he 220 pounds then, but then lost weight as he matured?

He has been attempting to do that in this league. It was commented on several times during our GDTs. We saw less of it during the back half of his tenure here. I wonder why that was the case. Apparently we are watching a different Pettersson. I'll add that just because a few people play above their own weight doesn't make it the norm.

The f*** are you talking about a men's league? He spent most of his time in a junior league during his draft year. Furthermore, these players aren't just scouted the year that they are drafted. Do you think that the scouts were just making it up?

 

[Exit Dose]

I'll add that saying that someone plays with an edge is not the same thing as saying that they play with enough of one to be Ulf Samuelsson or even Kronwall for that matter.

 

[nbducksfan19]

He has been attempting to do that in this league. It was commented on several times during our GDTs. We saw less of it during the back half of his tenure here. I wonder why that was the case. Apparently we are watching a different Pettersson. I'll add that just because a few people play above their own weight doesn't make it the norm.

The **** are you talking about a men's league? He spent most of his time in a junior league during his draft year. Furthermore, these players aren't just scouted the year that they are drafted. Do you think that the scouts were just making it up?

Yes I do believe scouts were either making it up or just flat wrong - because he is not physical. There seems to be an abundance of folks in here reiterating that notion, when you’re in the minority like that, you’re likely wrong. That would be you in this case.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Petterssen is 6’3”, 173#
Kronwall is 6’0”, 194
Vatanen is 5’ 10”, 185#
Dumba is 6’0”, 182#

Petterssen is significantly taller and significantly lighter than any of the other players. There’s some amazing intellectual dishonesty going on comparing these players as equally “undersized”. All three of those guys are significantly better muscled by comparison.