Daniel Sedin's Struggles

[Pip]

Can we please stop blaming Duncan Keith for Daniel Sedin's decline in play? It's absurd, and completely ignores the fact that Daniel had a 12 game stretch prior to that hit where he scored 2 goals and 4 points. He had been struggling prior to that hit.

nah, concussions don't affect play at all.

 

[maroon 6]

This Sedin splitting is not going well for Daniel. It was always known but now I think it's really really obvious that Daniel needs Henrik more than Henrik needs Daniel. Put the Sedins back together, and trade the first round pick + Jensen + other small pieces if necessary for Vanek.

Daniel is a goal scorer and he needs a playmaker and Henrik is the only playmaker we got.

 

[Addison Rae]

Yeah I agree. I don't want the Sedin's to be signed too high for a long contract. Maybe 2-3 years 6M?

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup

FORWARDS

Daniel Sedin ($6.000m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.000m) / Zack Kassian ($0.900m)
Hunter Shinkaruk ($1.138m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Alexandre Burrows ($4.500m)
Chris Higgins ($2.500m) / Bo Horvat ($1.775m) / Jannik Hansen ($2.500m)
Jeremy Welsh ($1.000m) / Mike Santorelli ($1.200m) / Brad Richardson ($1.150m)
Tom Sestito ($0.750m) /

DEFENSEMEN

Alexander Edler ($5.000m) / Jason Garrison ($4.600m)
Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m)
Ryan Stanton ($0.550m) / Chris Tanev ($1.700m)
Yannick Weber ($0.600m) /

GOALTENDERS

Roberto Luongo ($5.333m)
Eddie Lack ($2.000m)

OTHER

Buyout: David Booth ($0.000m)

------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,295,833; BONUSES: $1,062,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $2,066,667

I don't know who I would exactly add for another defenseman or forward but we can still afford both for depth.

Lets not forget the cap is increasing.

 

[y2kcanucks]

nah, concussions don't affect play at all.

Apparently concussions are so bad they can affect your play a month before you even get injured.

 

[Vankiller Whale]

Apparently concussions are so bad they can affect your play a month before you even get injured.

He might have just been having a streak of bad luck at the time.(which happens to all players, not just the Sedins).

I doubt there's any way to definitively prove when Daniel's decline started, but the Keith elbow seems as likely a time as any to pin the blame on.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Whether it was the Keith hit or not, Daniel has not been what Henrik has for whatever reason. The past 57 games, he's averaging about 3.08 shots on goal per game, pretty normal. What's weird is his shooting percentage, a career 12.2% shot is down to 7.9%. If he was at 12.2% he would have scored about 27 goals in that span. The 4.3% difference caused Daniel to cut his goal production nearly in half. It's quite incredible.

Going further to 2011-12, 2010-11, 2009-10 we see Daniel generates 32.7% of his goals on the PP. This number during our recent struggles with the PP? 28.6% so while the drop in PP efficiency does effect that, it does so only minutely. Take the information here as is, it's difficult to apply it properly as it relies solely on goal production and no variable factors.

 

[Royal Canuck]

8 points in 10 games on a team that's having offensive troubles.

not much of a problem IMO.

 

[NuxFan09]

I hate duncan keith. I still can't believe our spineless team still hasn't dealt with him.

Dan hasn't been the same since. Seriously, who viciously cheapshots a Sedin? Two of the kindest people on this planet.

The only thing that disgusted me more than the hit was the pathetic suspension handed down by shanahan and co. screw you shanahan!!!! That should have been a very long suspension, but i guess they couldnt let sweet little boy duncan keith miss the playoffs.

honestly, if they really want to do something with headshots, let players serve longer suspensions during the regular season AND suspend them for at least half of that length during the playoffs. That will stop at least a few clowns from pulling off this nonsense. It lets them know that even if they pull some stunt early on in the regular season that they will still be punished when it counts. I know some teams don't make the playoffs, but I still think it could act as a deterrent.

The part in bold is what continued to bother me well after it happened. Can't believe nobody made Keith pay in that game or in future games vs the Hawks.

It's in the past now, but this team looked so, so bad for doing jack all about that.

 

[Jack Tripper]

hes still making plays but his ability to put away chances is comically bad right now

reserving judgment until burrows returns from injury to see if it has any effect on his goal production...part of his lack of goals is related to the canucks lack of pp opportunities as well

 

[groovygoodwine]

I'd probably hold off on the Danny struggling discussion for at least another 20 games, it's early, new coach, different role, blah blah and blah.

If anyone thinks the Sedins will get less than 6.5, they are probably doing some wishful thinking. I'd hope just as much as anyone else that they sign for 6.00 - 6.75, but I figure it won't logically happen due to the cap going up and considering that they already took a discount once.

I know it's not fair to generalize across the board, but when a player drops his pay from the previous season it's usually because he had consecutive subpar seasons, he's getting older and signs with a new team for chance at cup, or was injured all year. So I really couldn't imagine either of them taking less than their current 6 mill. (I know these aren't all of the reasons, but you get the point)

I'd imagine Mr. JayPee Berries is asking for 7++, and even in the neighbourhood of 8 considering their importance to the team.

The idea that Gillis is offering Hank more than Danny is an intriguing idea, but they will still sign for the same cap hit in my mind.

 

[Tiranis]

Has 38 shots in 10 games. Even if you think he has declined in skill, I doubt he keeps shooting at 5%. (Which is also my answer for the PP struggles, I doubt they're going to keep shooting at whatever abysmally low percentage they are right now. In past years our PP wasn't really generating enough shots so the struggles were self-explanatory.)

 

[Proto]

3. Bad luck with shooting percentages which should normalize over a larger sample of games.

 

[y2kcanucks]

3. Bad luck with shooting percentages which should normalize over a larger sample of games.

He has something like 17 goals in his last 70 regular season games. How big of a sample size do you need?

 

[dave babych returns]

He has something like 17 goals in his last 70 regular season games. How big of a sample size do you need?

Well, Jordan Eberle shot nearly 19% over 78 regular season games, and yet somehow those claiming the sample size wasn't large enough to claim he'd shoot at that rate forever turned out to be right..

 

[Proto]

He has something like 17 goals in his last 70 regular season games. How big of a sample size do you need?

He has 2400 career shots as a 12% shooter, and he turned into a 8% shooter over 180 shots; I assume it's bad luck, particularly if he still came into camp in the best shape of his career and best on the team (along with Henrik). Even if he's taken a bit of a step back physically, I don't think it would cause a 35 percent reduction in shooting ability.

He's getting a lot of shots, and the #1 PP unit is also getting a lot of pucks on net (including Daniel). There's no way he continues to shoot at the same rate as a 4th line winger.

 

[wholesickcrew]

8 points in 10 games on a team that's having offensive troubles.

not much of a problem IMO.

This. It's amazing Henrik's doing so well without the PP going, and Daniel's doing just fine. As usual, people are down on a Sedin because there's not enough flash in his game (whereas Henrik at least had the bounce pass of the net to himself to make people happy).

 

[Alflives*]

This. It's amazing Henrik's doing so well without the PP going, and Daniel's doing just fine. As usual, people are down on a Sedin because there's not enough flash in his game (whereas Henrik at least had the bounce pass of the net to himself to make people happy).

Henrick is a top player, who contributes not only on the score-board, but in other ways too. Daniel is not that level of player any more. If he is not scoring, he is not contributing like Henrick does. Daniel is now a third line player, who should be compensated as such. The two (together) should be paid no more than 10 to 11mil/season. (6-7 for Henrick, and 3-4 for Daniel)

 

[Oddity]

Henrick is a top player, who contributes not only on the score-board, but in other ways too. Daniel is not that level of player any more. If he is not scoring, he is not contributing like Henrick does. Daniel is now a third line player, who should be compensated as such. The two (together) should be paid no more than 10 to 11mil/season. (6-7 for Henrick, and 3-4 for Daniel)

Yeaaahhhhh..... ok then.

 

[Addison Rae]

Henrick is a top player, who contributes not only on the score-board, but in other ways too. Daniel is not that level of player any more. If he is not scoring, he is not contributing like Henrick does. Daniel is now a third line player, who should be compensated as such. The two (together) should be paid no more than 10 to 11mil/season. (6-7 for Henrick, and 3-4 for Daniel)

Despite Daniel's "struggles" he still has 48 points in 57 games, which is top line production, seriously don't understand how you could say he's a 3rd liner.

 

[Alflives*]

Despite Daniel's "struggles" he still has 48 points in 57 games, which is top line production, seriously don't understand how you could say he's a 3rd liner.

Maybe it's my comparison to his brother? Henrick does so much more, I guess he stands out. Unless Daniel is scoring goals, he is not noticeable. I like the twins, and hope the Canucks keep them.

 

[ferroid]

The lack of hockey knowledge required for someone to call an 8 points in 10 games Daniel Sedin a third liner is simply astounding.

When did the average posting quality on this board decline so much?

 

[JuniorNelson]

I cannot believe this discussion. It is obvious this board is full of children. Well, kids, let me tell you what...older does not mean wrinkles and thin hair. Older means slower. Slower movements and reactions do not benefit a sniper. Much of what is wrong with Daniel is slower movements. His passes aren't as sharp or timely, his shots aren't snapping off and he can't settle the puck like he used to. He is an old, failing sniper.

No amount of conditioning will refresh the brain. Kieth didn't make Daniel's brain slower, being in his mid thirties did it. Kieth is a POS in a S league that doesn't care about players. The fact that the bench didn't empty is shocking and explains why this team does not have any rings. Not enough fight, too much surrender.

Re-signing the Sedins is foolish. Do not think you are arguing by quoting stats from only a few years ago. You are arguing a moot point. It does not matter what the Sedins did four years ago. It does not matter how much money they gave to Children's Hospital. It only matters what they can do on the ice today. The Sedins are very smart and know this. They will accept a reasonable deal or they will go play for MODO.

Canucks do not attract players. This is a pariah team. Nobody is coming here to provide secondary scoring and take the heat off the twins. Nobody. The twins will be the engine of this team until they leave, then the team will become like the 2011 Oilers, young and kind of weak with an old goalie.

Really, the Sedins are in their last season here. They can rejoin a failing franchise, or they can go play for Detroit. I am guessing it's Sweden, though. Sweden is also a serious threat in the Olympics, this time. If the Swedes win gold, what's left for the Sedins in Vancouver? This team has no chance in the playoffs. There is no upside to the Canucks any more. That's over.

 

[Proto]

Henrick is a top player, who contributes not only on the score-board, but in other ways too. Daniel is not that level of player any more. If he is not scoring, he is not contributing like Henrick does. Daniel is now a third line player, who should be compensated as such. The two (together) should be paid no more than 10 to 11mil/season. (6-7 for Henrick, and 3-4 for Daniel)

Can you take your act to another thread and leave this one alone?

Mod please*, does anyone honestly believe this guy, who posts about the Sedins constantly, doesn't know how to spell their names?'

*Phrase popularized in the autumn of 2013, said with the same inflection as "$*&#@ please," which was popularized in hip-hop music in the late 1990's.

 

[Addison Rae]

Maybe it's my comparison to his brother? Henrick does so much more, I guess he stands out. Unless Daniel is scoring goals, he is not noticeable. I like the twins, and hope the Canucks keep them.

I agree Henrik is the better player for sure, and anyone who argues that hasn't been clearly watching them objectively lately. But Daniel is still a top 3 LW'er in the NHL and far from a 3rd liner.

 

[Proto]

I cannot believe this discussion. It is obvious this board is full of children. Well, kids, let me tell you what...older does not mean wrinkles and thin hair. Older means slower. Slower movements and reactions do not benefit a sniper. Much of what is wrong with Daniel is slower movements. His passes aren't as sharp or timely, his shots aren't snapping off and he can't settle the puck like he used to. He is an old, failing sniper.

These discussions are impossible, because each player ages differently, so you can't apply a blanket aging-regression formula to players.

If only we had a genetically identical Daniel Sedin that we could compare him to. Ideally they'd need to play on the same team (perhaps even the same line?), so that you could eliminate a bunch of variables. Then you'd have some idea whether Daniel was going cold because he's too old, or whether it was just a spot of bad luck.

Imagine he was struggling but his genetic clone was still passing crisply and settling pucks with ease -- then people wouldn't have to argue about this, because anyone attributing this to some collossal aging effect would look really silly!!!!