Confirmed with Link: Daniel Cleary (1 year, $1.5 MM + $1 MM bonus potential)

[GoAwayDanCleary]

Plenty of guys are good AHLers and not so good in the NHL.

That's a pretty weak argument. I think Callahan can be a 15 goal guy who is solid defensively and can PK, all while providing lots of grit. He has great hands in tight and scores most of his goals near the crease. His game will translate well to the NHL as long as he keeps improving his strength (though he already is a strong kid).

 

[Heaton]

That's a pretty weak argument. I think Callahan can be a 15 goal guy who is solid defensively and can PK, all while providing lots of grit. He has great hands in tight and scores most of his goals near the crease. His game will translate well to the NHL as long as he keeps improving his strength (though he already is a strong kid).

If that's true, he'll stick around. Holland hasn't let any real good players leave via free waivers.

 

[Vladdy84]

That's a pretty weak argument. I think Callahan can be a 15 goal guy who is solid defensively and can PK, all while providing lots of grit. He has great hands in tight and scores most of his goals near the crease. His game will translate well to the NHL as long as he keeps improving his strength (though he already is a strong kid).

Can he be a "net-front" presence!?

 

[Goalie guy]

Can he be a "net-front" presence!?

He is a net front guy! With good speed, and hands.

 

[SoupNazi]

That's a pretty weak argument. I think Callahan can be a 15 goal guy who is solid defensively and can PK, all while providing lots of grit. He has great hands in tight and scores most of his goals near the crease. His game will translate well to the NHL as long as he keeps improving his strength (though he already is a strong kid).

You can feel my argument is weak all you want, but we will just have to agree to disagree. I just don't find Callahan that good, after watching quite a bit of him last year.

 

[Pulkcannon]

Ferraro, maybe. Callahan just scored 29 goals and looks to be a pretty valuable bottom-sixer in the future. To say he is not that good is very wrong IMO.

I'm still optimistic about the two of them. Neither got a huge chance to show what they could do last year in the NHL and they probably won't improve much more without playing with the Wings.

I thought Riley Sheahan looked awful in his first game last year and on top of that didn't produce a whole lot in GR, but he broke out quickly, so anything can happen with those two guys.

 

[Konnan511]

You can feel my argument is weak all you want, but we will just have to agree to disagree. I just don't find Callahan that good, after watching quite a bit of him last year.

I feel the same way. 15 goals doesn't seem like a lot, but Wings had 6 players with 15 goals last season. Oilers had 4, Sabres had 3. I don't think Cally,without top six minutes (which he will never get) can be a 15 goal scorer, even with some PP time which he probably wouldn't get either in the NHL.

 

[Vladdy84]

I'm still optimistic about the two of them. Neither got a huge chance to show what they could do last year in the NHL and they probably won't improve much more without playing with the Wings.

I thought Riley Sheahan looked awful in his first game last year and on top of that didn't produce a whole lot in GR, but he broke out quickly, so anything can happen with those two guys.

First couple games I saw Riley play I was not impressed at all.

 

[Pulkcannon]

I feel the same way. 15 goals doesn't seem like a lot, but Wings had 6 players with 15 goals last season. Oilers had 4, Sabres had 3. I don't think Cally,without top six minutes (which he will never get) can be a 15 goal scorer, even with some PP time which he probably wouldn't get either in the NHL.

I would imagine he would score on a pace similar to Abdelkader

 

[Vladdy84]

I would imagine he would score on a pace similar to Abdelkader

Yeah, like 10 goals a year. Would depend if he could get on the PP at all.

 

[Henkka]

You think he would openly give Cleary $2.5M after the season he just had? That would be even more catastrophic in terms of PR than the move currently is, but I can't even imagine what Tatar's camp would say if Holland gave Cleary $2.5M outright after two seasons wherein he put up a whopping 23 points over 100 games and managed a collective -17.

Players use other players contracts as measuring sticks all the time

In RFA negotiations, another UFA contracts are not comparable ones which agents and GMs will use. They will use guys at same age group, games played, production, time-on-ice.

So Signing 35-year-old UFA Cleary for 1.5 2.5 or 100 million won't affect at all to 23-year-old RFA Tatar negotiations. Tatar comparables are Killorn and Brayden Schenn etc.

Same at Quincey vs. DeKeyser.

DeKeyser comparables are guys like Jake Gardiner and TJ Brodie.

 

[Henkka]

That's where I'm at as well. It's all about roster spaces at this point. I don't care how much money Quincey makes or that Cleary got a NMC. These guys aren't going anywhere once that pen hits the paper and the dollar amount is trivial because we're not bringing anyone new into the fold.

Holland already pissed away millions of dollars in buy-outs and buried contracts, that's what he does.

Yeah, he is burning money yeah, doesn't differ anyhow about other GMs actions.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Callahan will never get a decent chance in the NHL as long as he's in the Red Wings system. He plays with to much grit.
No place for his style in game in extended pinkie finger Holland/Babcock scheme.

Are you ****ing kidding me?

I really want to know if there are people who actually think this way.

If Callahan doesn't get a decent chance in the Wings' system, it's because he's not any ****ing good. It's because they don't see his game transferring to the NHL level. It's not because he plays with too much grit.

They signed Jordin Tootoo to a contract that was way too much money and way too much term for a player like him because they wanted him to be a tough, gritty presence. They continuously play guys like Abdelkader, Cleary, and Bertuzzi on the top lines when they shouldn't because they want guys who are gritty and go into the corners and fight battles... pull pianos, as it were.

The Red Wings are always looking for guys who have grit. Always.

I'm believe that people should criticize the team and what they're doing. It's been very disappointing and Ken Holland needs to improve what he's doing... but rip him for stuff that makes sense. Rip him for bringing back broken down players with raises. Rip him for doing absolutely nothing to cushion the blow of losing Nick Lidstrom, Brian Rafalski, and for the decline of Brad Stuart.

Don't make up garbage about how a guy in the AHL can't get a shot because he plays "too gritty".

 

[Vladdy84]

The Wings don't really have any players that have TRUE GRIT.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Yes, they do.

They just signed one. He skates about as well as John Wayne can right now too.

 

[Vladdy84]

Yes, they do.

They just signed one. He skates about as well as John Wayne can right now too.

Getting your ass kicked in the corners and in the front of the net isn't TRUE GRIT.

 

[Flowah]

I'm still optimistic about the two of them. Neither got a huge chance to show what they could do last year in the NHL and they probably won't improve much more without playing with the Wings.

I thought Riley Sheahan looked awful in his first game last year and on top of that didn't produce a whole lot in GR, but he broke out quickly, so anything can happen with those two guys.

It's 100x easier to give those kids a chance when you're not already packing 14-15 forwards with a glut of 4th liners and if you play well enough to give yourself some kind of cushion in the standings. Our team isn't really good enough to do that if Cleary gets any significant number of games. He single handedly kills offense on any line he's on, if he gets PP time oh god help us.

He may not single handedly lose us games very often, but even just 3-4 games over 50 games is a lot of points when you're talking about a bubble team. Jurco practically tripled Cleary's production last year. That's easily good enough for a few more wins over the course of a season.

 

[Henkka]

I would argue 2 years. He had the Baker's cyst issue and then problems with treatment. His knee might be trashed. It might have healed. We don't know either way. If he is healthy he is a value. If he can outcompete one of the kids for a job he will. If he can't he won't. The way I see it if one of these kids can't shine bright enough to outshine Cleary then they aren't very good.

That's the point. Time to Callahan and Ferraro to show up lights out at the camp.

 

[Flowah]

That's the point. Time to Callahan and Ferraro to show up lights out at the camp.

We already had enough forwards where those two would have had to beat someone out at camp.

Z, D, Franzen, Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan, Jurco, Glendening, Weiss, Helm, Andersson, Miller, Abby. That's 13 without Alfie who I suspect will be back.

 

[Goalie guy]

We already had enough forwards where those two would have had to beat someone out at camp.

Z, D, Franzen, Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan, Jurco, Glendening, Weiss, Helm, Andersson, Miller, Abby. That's 13 without Alfie who I suspect will be back.

This has been my point all along, We had no need to do anything with Cleary at all other than a coaching or staff job of some sort.

 

[Henkka]

Since neither Zetterberg or Datsuk rely on having superior physical attributes to their games, I am more willing to believe they'll continue to be elite longer than most guys. They succeed with ridiculous hockey IQ and stick handling skill.

Yea, like someone like Teemu Selänne.

Selänne scored 455 points in 462 games from 2005 to 2012, in 7 seasons.

0.98 points per game, 65 games per season on average. From 34 to 41-year old.

At the start of that run, he was same aged as Zetterberg is now and Zeta has 7 years left of his contract.

Selänne had a big knee surgery during the lockout of 2004 and it gave a "new life" for hmi. Same could happen for Zetterberg with his back problem, that is now gone.

 

[ScottyBowman]

This guy called in the radio the other day and said Holland signed a top 6 forward LOL. We are a huge joke.

 

[Shaman464]

Yea, like someone like Teemu Selänne.

Selänne scored 455 points in 462 games from 2005 to 2012, in 7 seasons.

0.98 points per game, 65 games per season on average. From 34 to 41-year old.

At the start of that run, he was same aged as Zetterberg is now and Zeta has 7 years left of his contract.

Selänne had a big knee surgery during the lockout of 2004 and it gave a "new life" for hmi. Same could happen for Zetterberg with his back problem, that is now gone.

This is wishful thinking on the part of an organization that supposedly wants to set itself up to win. They have to believe that Zetterberg somehow trends with one of the most durable players there was, after a career that has been marred with injuries.

 

[Henkka]

Come on. He hasn't spent a ton of time in GR and he's only 21. If they 'bury' him it'll most likely only be for part of the season, as he'll be up as soon as there are injuries and probably permantly post-deadline at the latest. If they bury him because of CLEARY it will frickin' suck, but I don't think it would hurt him to play a bit more in GR, being the star there instead of playing 3rd line minutes in the NHL.

Jurco was already planned to be down at Griffins. Just like Jiri Fischer is tellin all the time, you have to have a dominating season at lower level to be NHL ready. We haven't seen that yet from Jurco, but pretty probably see that at next season.

After next season he will be fill time NHLr. At season 2014-15, he sees 20-30 games again and maybe full-time NHL playoffs. Our pattern from latest years.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

This is wishful thinking on the part of an organization that supposedly wants to set itself up to win. They have to believe that Zetterberg somehow trends with one of the most durable players there was, after a career that has been marred with injuries.

What? The Red Wings aren't relying on Zetterberg to be Teemu Selanne. They are just counting on him being a solid player for them. They're drafting tons of centers and holding onto young players like they're golden nuggets because they're anticipating that he's not going to continue to be the elite player he is now.