Tribute Daniel Alfredsson VS Erik Karlsson

[DaveMatthew]

Yeah EK doesn’t touch Alfie in this particular regard, kind of a Federov vs Yzerman situation.

EK was amazing for us, legend really, but like Spezza should probably never been captain of the team. I would have liked for us to have just let EK be the free and clear superstar, and let a guy like Stone be the guy where the buck stopped.

That’s not really fair. Neither Karlsson nor Spezza were given the time to grow into the role of being captain.

Spezza was captain for 1 season and left the team when he was 30.
Karlsson was captain for 4 seasons and left the team when he was 27.

Between the ages of 27-30, Alfredsson’s reputation was not what it is today. His resume was littered with playoff disappointments. At 30, he had been captain for 4 seasons and:

• We had lost to the Leafs 3 times, including a first round sweep
• The one year we made it through to the ECF, he was more of a passenger, scoring just 4 goals and 8 points in 18 games

He was viewed, by many, as a bad leader and choker. People wanted a Gary Roberts to be captain, not a quiet, “skilled but soft” Swede.

But the team committed to him, re-shuffled the deck chairs around him, and between the ages of 32-39, he became the clutch player and leader we now remember.

Luckily, the criticism was contained to newspaper columns and talk radio, because in today’s world of Twitter, podcasts, blogs and 24/7 sports analysis, I don’t think he would’ve lasted in this market past 03/04. He would have been run out of town. He almost was.

(And it’s not just this market. Look at what’s happening in Toronto. Mitch Marner is 24 and has been declared a career loser. Mats Sundin didn’t win a round until he was 28. Doug Gilmour was 29 when he took them on their run.)

Hopefully we have more patience if Tkachuk or Chabot are made captain. Not everyone can be a Crosby or Toews.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

That’s not really fair. Neither Karlsson nor Spezza were given the time to grow into the role of being captain.

[snip]

One of the best posts I've read around here lately.

 

[Ice-Tray]

That’s not really fair. Neither Karlsson nor Spezza were given the time to grow into the role of being captain.

Spezza was captain for 1 season and left the team when he was 30.
Karlsson was captain for 4 seasons and left the team when he was 27.

Between the ages of 27-30, Alfredsson’s reputation was not what it is today. His resume was littered with playoff disappointments. At 30, he had been captain for 4 seasons and:

• We had lost to the Leafs 3 times, including a first round sweep
• The one year we made it through to the ECF, he was more of a passenger, scoring just 4 goals and 8 points in 18 games

He was viewed, by many, as a bad leader and choker. People wanted a Gary Roberts to be captain, not a quiet, “skilled but soft” Swede.

But the team committed to him, re-shuffled the deck chairs around him, and between the ages of 32-39, he became the clutch player and leader we now remember.

Luckily, the criticism was contained to newspaper columns and talk radio, because in today’s world of Twitter, podcasts, blogs and 24/7 sports analysis, I don’t think he would’ve lasted in this market past 03/04. He would have been run out of town. He almost was.

(And it’s not just this market. Look at what’s happening in Toronto. Mitch Marner is 24 and has been declared a career loser. Mats Sundin didn’t win a round until he was 28. Doug Gilmour was 29 when he took them on their run.)

Hopefully we have more patience if Tkachuk or Chabot are made captain. Not everyone can be a Crosby or Toews.

Don’t get me wrong, I agree with virtually everything you wrote. I think Spezza could have been a fine captain perhaps, he just kind of missed the opportunity here, and received by default.

EK wasn’t a bad captain per se, and I don’t want to re hash all of the Hoffman and Practice stuff, but sometimes some guys can be the very best player without having to also bear the mantle of captain. I don’t think EK was destined to be a great captain, I think he was destined to be a great player.

Alfie went through a long period of time where things were rough for sure, and maybe the team would have been better if we had stripped him and given it to Chara, like when the Stars stripped Modano and gave it to Morrow. Who knows, but part of me would love to have that be our reality.

Alfie became clutch as you say, and his reputation really took off with Spezza and Heater in the Pizza days. Good times indeed.

I have a good feeling about Chabot and Tkachuk, I think we may be building the best leadership core our young history has seen.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

One of the best posts I've read around here lately.

I am thinking you are not serious on this one.

 

[PlayersLtd]

This is like asking if you want cake for dinner or steak and potatoes.

 

[Rals]

Alfie greatest ever,
Hossa the most talented.

 

[SensHulk]

I named my dog Alfie, not Karl.

/thread

 

[Back in Black]

That’s not really fair. Karlsson was captain for 4 seasons and left the team when he was 27.

Lots of love for Karlsson in this Forum. He was magnificent until the achilleas heal incident. But after a few too many +/- (-) seasons, the magic was long gone. SENS brass helping him move along was the best choice for this organization. His best days were well past him at this point. Personally I got tired fast, of watching him get beat, and he'd have this little snicker on his face. What an embarrassment. Never saw anything like that from Alfie

That's why people called him the little leprechaun......

 

[SensFactor]

Alfie curb stomps EK65 in terms of greatness and arguably in talent also. I was probably one of the only ones that didn't shed a tear when EK left. He's overrated.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Lots of love for Karlsson in this Forum. He was magnificent until the achilleas heal incident. But after a few too many +/- (-) seasons, the magic was long gone. SENS brass helping him move along was the best choice for this organization. His best days were well past him at this point. Personally I got tired fast, of watching him get beat, and he'd have this little snicker on his face. What an embarrassment. Never saw anything like that from Alfie

That's why people called him the little leprechaun......

Remember when Jason Pominville walked Alfredsson in 05/06 to eliminate Ottawa in overtime and the fan base was ready to run him out of town for yet another playoff disappointment, despite his 103 point season? I do.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Interestingly, when you listen to guys talk about Alfie on the W&M show they always talk about leadership, staying late to work on stick work with the kids, hard work, etc.

The few times guys have talked about EK, it’s usually a snicker and a comment like “that guy…. laugh, he’s sometime else I tell ya, naw I love Erik….” And then move on.

Erik was a special talent, and such a treat to have watched, but as I have said diplomatically, I wish that he had been left to just be himself and we had let Stone be captain after Spezza left.

You don’t have to give the most skilled guy the C, often times you shouldn’t.

 

[topshelf15]

Alfie not close here...He just did everything ,and at near elite levels...Need a big PK,or big goal he is the man

 

[Micklebot]

Erik was a special talent, and such a treat to have watched, but as I have said diplomatically, I wish that he had been left to just be himself and we had let Stone be captain after Spezza left.

There was no chance we make Stone captain after Spezza left, he hadn't played a full season with the team yet.

The team wasn't really at a stage where you could go with no captain, they had a fairly mature group with Karlsson, Turris, MacArthur and Methot. Neil and Phillips were too close to the end to be viable bridge captains.

At that time, Karlsson was pretty consistently receving praise for his leadership, it really wasn't a case of giving it to the most skilled guy, lots of quotes out there about his leadership from teammates.

 

[Stuzchuk]

Alfie is the greatest Senator. EK65 was the most talented Senator ever. Voted for Alfie.

this..

 

[robsenz]

It's sacrilegious not having the title corrected in this thread.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

It's sacrilegious not having the title corrected in this thread.

Done. I can’t believe the OP wrote Frank Alfredsson instead of Daniel.

 

[aragorn]

Will either of these two guys end up in the HOF? I'm not sure they will. I was against both becoming captain at the time & said so on here many times, I thought Fisher or Phillips would have made better captains, but what do I know? I didn't think EK was a good choice for captain given how it ended with a very divided room.

As it turned out Alfi was okay & good in his last couple of yrs after they finally got by the Leafs yrs & was a very nice guy, gentleman in fact, in public anyway. Although elite or God like, I don't think so, more like a fan's exaggeration of their favourite player(s).

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

Will either of these two guys end up in the HOF? I'm not sure they will. I was against both becoming captain at the time & said so on here many times, I thought Fisher or Phillips would have made better captains, but what do I know? I didn't think EK was a good choice for captain given how it ended with a very divided room.

As it turned out Alfi was okay & good in his last couple of yrs after they finally got by the Leafs yrs & was a very nice guy, gentleman in fact, in public anyway. Although elite or God like, I don't think so, more like a fan's exaggeration of their favourite player(s).

God-like was always an exaggeration. But not elite? Are we talking about the same player? He's literally the third-highest scorer of the 2000s.

 

[aragorn]

God-like was always an exaggeration. But not elite? Are we talking about the same player? He's literally the third-highest scorer of the 2000s.

And yet not in the HOF & I don't like his prospects of getting in, but that remains to be seen.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

And yet not in the HOF & I don't like his prospects of getting in, but that remains to be seen.

He was always going to have an uphill battle as a quiet, unassuming leader in a small market that inexplicably isn't going to bat for him. Not disputing that his path to the HoF is tough (though I do think his number will eventually be called.) But my post was taking issue with your description of Alfredsson as not elite, which just doesn't track IMO. A top-tier point scorer for a whole decade while also being responsible defensively and, by all accounts, one of the best leaders in the league? Shit, if that's not elite, I don't know what is.

 

[aragorn]

He was always going to have an uphill battle as a quiet, unassuming leader in a small market that inexplicably isn't going to bat for him. Not disputing that his path to the HoF is tough (though I do think his number will eventually be called.) But my post was taking issue with your description of Alfredsson as not elite, which just doesn't track IMO. A top-tier point scorer for a whole decade while also being responsible defensively and, by all accounts, one of the best leaders in the league? Shit, if that's not elite, I don't know what is.

Elite I reserve for the greats in the game but your right, he had a very good career no one can deny that, in the end though weren't still not sure if he will even get into the HOF & even then not everyone in the HOF can be considered elite, although a good number were. I do agree with your remark regarding an unassuming leader in a small market & also think that could have something to do with it. Just an opinion.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Will either of these two guys end up in the HOF? I'm not sure they will. I was against both becoming captain at the time & said so on here many times, I thought Fisher or Phillips would have made better captains, but what do I know? I didn't think EK was a good choice for captain given how it ended with a very divided room.

As it turned out Alfi was okay & good in his last couple of yrs after they finally got by the Leafs yrs & was a very nice guy, gentleman in fact, in public anyway. Although elite or God like, I don't think so, more like a fan's exaggeration of their favourite player(s).

"God's" are fictional characters, so they're an exaggeration no matter who they're describing

God-like was always an exaggeration. But not elite? Are we talking about the same player? He's literally the third-highest scorer of the 2000s.

That's crazy, I never knew that. I always considered him the Senators legend and a great player, but I had no idea he was that high up on the list in scoring. One point away from 2nd and a sizable gap from the top three to the next group. On top of everything else he did, that's elite to me, no question.