Dan Girardi or Marc Staal: who should we buy out this off-season?

[silverfish]

They could buyout both.

If you buyout both, you have to moneypuck the **** out of the rest of the defense for the next 6-8 years.

A fun project, for sure, but a tough one.

I think we're all dreaming if we think this team gets out of both of these guys this off-season. They both have negative trade value, regardless of what our spec thread tells you. Not to mention NMCs and and NTCs.

My hope is that Girardi is bought out this off-season, easier to handle on the books. Staal, though, I'd be shocked if he's not #18 on your blueline with an A on his chest come October 2017.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Doesn't matter..as long as we have that idiot behind the bench inferior players...whomever they are...will get big minutes.

Exactly. There's always going to be weaker defensemen on the team, it's all about how the coach deploys them.

AV is supposed to be this master tactician, meanwhile he's actively seeking match ups that hurt the team. It's no shock his Rangers teams have been better on the road, where he doesn't get last change.

 

[DanielBrassard]

If you buyout both, you have to moneypuck the **** out of the rest of the defense for the next 6-8 years.

A fun project, for sure, but a tough one.

I think we're all dreaming if we think this team gets out of both of these guys this off-season. They both have negative trade value, regardless of what our spec thread tells you. Not to mention NMCs and and NTCs.

My hope is that Girardi is bought out this off-season, easier to handle on the books. Staal, though, I'd be shocked if he's not #18 on your blueline with an A on his chest come October 2017.

It would be tough for sure. My thinking is that if you BO both then you pretty much have a 2 year window or so in the next 2 years to win the cup before McD's new contract. But I just can't see us winning with either of them on the team.
I'd guess that both won't be BO as you said though.

 

[Off Sides]

I'd like to see them both bought out just so I do not have to watch them anymore.

Until recently I would have cared about dead cap space, but at this point I'm not sure it really matters anymore.

Is it really lack of cap space that is holding this team back?

 

[Lion Hound]

Im doubting that either of them will be bought out at all. The math is tough to make sense. End of next season will be more likely.


Good GM's find ways to make deals happen. Relationships factor heavy. Gorton has a very tough task ahead of him, but that comes with the job.


Selling off one of these assets in a trade might be unlikely to us the fans, but could very well happen.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Im doubting that either of them will be bought out at all. The math is tough to make sense. End of next season will be more likely.


Good GM's find ways to make deals happen. Relationships factor heavy. Gorton has a very tough task ahead of him, but that comes with the job.


Selling off one of these assets in a trade might be unlikely to us the fans, but could very well happen.

One of them has to be bought out this off season. Brooks has already alluded to it being G. Should be Staal since he's blocking a stud thats already on the team and IMO, he is the worse player.

The easier solution would be to fire AV and bring in someone who understands what a good defenseman is. Then it doesn't matter which one you buy out because the remaining one wouldn't play.

 

[JimmyG89]

Here are the cap implications for both:

Girardi cap hit
2017-18: $2,611,111
2018-19: $3,611,111
2019-20: $3,611,111
2020-21: $1,111,111
2021-22: $1,111,111
2022-23: $1,111,111

Staal cap hit
2017-18: $2,133,333
2018-19: $2,133,333
2019-20: $3,133,333
2020-21: $3,933,333
2021-22: $1,433,333
2022-23: $1,433,333
2023-24: $1,433,333
2024-25: $1,433,333

2019-20 is the next lockout season. There is the chance for a huge rift with the players and the owners. The Olympic decision didn't help. Will there be a full season? Will there be any season? I see the players taking a hard stance and terminating the CBA early.

I know nobody wants to lose hockey being played, but if there were a shortened season, and they decided to buyout both players this offseason now, it could be a huge benefit for the team.

Unfortunately, I believe Staal is staying. Skjei should have passed him on the depth chart already. That's on the coach, not the contract. That has to happen next season, if not right this moment.

If you read the tea leaves, (Brooks articles) Girardi is gone. Will he retire? I don't know if he'll want to leave that money (15M) on the table. He'd get 10M if bought out. Will this be, you retire/front office job to offset some money lost type of deal?

Based on 24/7, Girardi has a family and they're pretty settled in NYC. Does he want to be in NYC long term? If he does, taking a front office job and retiring would allow him to be here longer.

 

[Lion Hound]

One of them has to be bought out this off season. Brooks has already alluded to it being G. Should be Staal since he's blocking a stud thats already on the team and IMO, he is the worse player.

The easier solution would be to fire AV and bring in someone who understands what a good defenseman is. Then it doesn't matter which one you buy out because the remaining one wouldn't play.

Should be and has to be are two different animals.

I agree that both should be gone but I just don't believe they are actually going to move forward on the buyout. IMO there will be movement at the draft to clear up space and the 2017/19 NYR club will see both employed for one more season.

 

[apoptygma]

Looks like UFa market for d-men are terrible this offseason. NYR have extra "serviceable" defenders. Might help us atleast getting a fair return for Klein/Holden

 

[True Blue]

If you buyout both, you have to moneypuck the **** out of the rest of the defense for the next 6-8 years.

A fun project, for sure, but a tough one.

I think we're all dreaming if we think this team gets out of both of these guys this off-season. They both have negative trade value, regardless of what our spec thread tells you. Not to mention NMCs and and NTCs.

My hope is that Girardi is bought out this off-season, easier to handle on the books. Staal, though, I'd be shocked if he's not #18 on your blueline with an A on his chest come October 2017.

On the same page as you on this one. The dead cap space with two buyouts would be prohibitive. As Stall's buy out would be worse, like you I expect him on the team. Girardi is a 60-40 split (with the 60 going with staying). I just have a hard time seeing AV agree to have him be bought out. And that is providing that Gorton will in fact want to do that.

In the more likely than not scenario, I think that both will still be here.

 

[True Blue]

Is it really lack of cap space that is holding this team back?

You are talking about around $6m here. That is a dollar sum that can be used on other players or resigning your own. Poor cap management is one of the issues surrounding what happens in the future of this team.

 

[Off Sides]

You are talking about around $6m here. That is a dollar sum that can be used on other players or resigning your own. Poor cap management is one of the issues surrounding what happens in the future of this team.

Rangers could operate 6M above the cap if it were legal and still find a way to have a team that was not as good as the best ones in the league. They did just that pre cap.

6m ahead, 6M behind, none of it likely matters that much. They wasted, everyones estimate may be different but I'd go with at least 13M this year.

 

[TheTakedown]

2019-20 is the next lockout season. There is the chance for a huge rift with the players and the owners. The Olympic decision didn't help. Will there be a full season? Will there be any season? I see the players taking a hard stance and terminating the CBA early.

I know nobody wants to lose hockey being played, but if there were a shortened season, and they decided to buyout both players this offseason now, it could be a huge benefit for the team.

Unfortunately, I believe Staal is staying. Skjei should have passed him on the depth chart already. That's on the coach, not the contract. That has to happen next season, if not right this moment.

If you read the tea leaves, (Brooks articles) Girardi is gone. Will he retire? I don't know if he'll want to leave that money (15M) on the table. He'd get 10M if bought out. Will this be, you retire/front office job to offset some money lost type of deal?

Based on 24/7, Girardi has a family and they're pretty settled in NYC. Does he want to be in NYC long term? If he does, taking a front office job and retiring would allow him to be here longer.

That is something to consider--if girardi is bought out, he cannot work for the rangers until the buyout has run it's course, which is SIX years...

Ideally, what Girardi could do is wait until he gets his $1M signing bonus this year, then retire and take a front office position with the rangers.

 

[TheTakedown]

I think what would prevent Gorton from buying out both is not having readily available players that can step in and produce quality minutes in their place. That would take some additional maneuvering from his end.

See the thing is, the players are in fact there.

Skjei is ready for 22 minutes a night
Bear Gloves should be ready for 18 a night
Holden can adequately stopgap either of those players if necessary

On top of that, Smith and McDonagh are goood for at least 24 a night

The players are there. Gorton's done a great job with making some key acquisitions. The dead weight needs to go at this point. If Gorton can keep influxing the young talent, he can offset the costs of the $6.74M in lost dead cap space. Again, compared to having those guys on the roster, it's still a net cap gain of $4.45M. If you have two guys on $925k ELC's at that point, you're still looking at a net cap space gain of $2.6M...

Granted, this is nowhere near ideal, of course you want that full $11.2M freed up, but at this point what other options does Gorton have?

If one of these guys decides to retire that makes buying out the other one much more palatable, but what are the realistic chances of that?

 

[OrbitalDynamics]

I still find it remarkable that some keep thinking that Clendening should slot in for Game 3 or will be back next year with a larger role. The head coach has Klein and Steven Kampfer ahead of him. He is not going to be in the top six.

We saw this movie last year when Rafael Diaz came down from Hartford to slot in ahead of McIlrath,despite having had an injury plagued season in the A and not playing in a single NHL game that season.Girardi had a broken knee cap and a friggin' concussion and Vigneault *still* went off the reservation for one of "His" guys.

Once this coach sees/decides no value in you,you are done.Age,draft status,irrelevant.If AV hath measured you and found you wanting, you are dead to him.

Last year it was McIlrath, this year it's Clendening and now in the PO,in a game in which he played *good*, it's Skjei.

I'm hoping this narrative that "AV is the most successful coach we've ever had so we should trust him blindly!!!" is taken out back and given a 9mm brain hemorrhage...

 

[TheTakedown]

We saw this movie last year when Rafwel Diaz came down from Hartford to slot in ahead of McIlrath,despite having had an injury plagued season in the A and not playing in a single NHL game that season.

Once this coach sees/decides no value in you,you are done.Age,draft status,irrelevant.AV hath measured you and found you wanting, you are dead to him.

Last year it was McIlrath, this year it's Clendening and now in the PO,in a game in which he played *good*, it's Skjei.

I'm hoping this narrative that "AV is the most successful coach we've ever had so we should trust him blindly!!!" is taken out back and given a 9mm brain hemorrhage...

THIS, and that's a serious problem. He's done it with three guys that have shown flashes of brilliance... I don't think it's wrong to consider that it's possible McIlrath never became an NHL'er because AV actually did ruin his confidence, just in the same way Holden will never be better than a #5-6 because Roy ruined him

The scary part is that the players he is choosing, such as Girardi, Staal, Diaz, etc are are NOTABLY worse than the guys he is passing on,
like Smith, Skjei, Clendening, and McIlrath... Again, it's not that these guys are world beaters, because yes, Skjei is a rookie, Clendo has played on many teams, and McIlrath had a rough development track, but the fact that Staal and Girardi are getting the nods over these guys regularly while evidently showing that they are WORSE than the younger counterparts is what really gets me. I repeat, it's not that he's not choosing Skjei or Smith or Clendo, it's that he's choosing Girardi, Holden, and Staal OVER them...

 

[OrbitalDynamics]

My fear is that Vigneault deems Graves unsuitable and cuts him off at the knees too.
Big physical kid,cannon shot, been in the system since he was taken in the 4th round in'13.

All the things AV apparently doesn't care for in a defenceman.This kid would clear the crease like a snowplow,probably gives Vigneault acid reflux to see that.

 

[Fugazy]

My fear is that Vigneault deems Graves unsuitable and cuts him off at the knees too.
Big physical kid,cannon shot, been in the system since he was taken in the 4th round in'13.

All the things AV apparently doesn't care for in a defenceman.This kid would clear the crease like a snowplow,probably gives Vigneault acid reflux to see that.

That's pretty much my fear for every defenseman that is coming up through the system. AV has a clear track record of not giving younger players a fair chance to showcase their skills and play the amount of minutes their production level is currently at.

 

[Leonardo87]

Would choose Staal. Think Giradi still has some positive things to his game, even if they are not a lot. Of course that bad turnover last game, is not helping his case. Throw him on the bottom pairing, and limit his mins and think he will be fine. Staal is just not good, and think he is more of a liability than Giradi at this point.

In reality, cannot buy out both, two much dead cap, if Staal can be traded, it's going to be with some kind of handicap of dead cap, or losing a prospect/pick. I doubt both will be here in Oct. But then again, who knows at this point.

BTW, Is there an option to shoot both to the moon?

 

[Fitzy]

I'm not worried about keeping them around next year due to cap hit. NYR don't really need to re-sign anyone expensive this offseason. It's not a Hagelin situation where we will need to jettison players.

But the thing that bothers me is having two declining players eating up time and roster spots that could otherwise be given to players with the potential to improve. Especially two guys who can't play the PP or move the puck effectively. If our defense is going to struggle I'd rather it be with young guys that overpaid veterans.

 

[Don Chytil]

With their recent D signings (Berezgalov, Pionk) I wouldn't be surprised to see the Rangers use their 1st round pick to entice another team into taking on one of Girardi or Staal. Then the other is bought out, so both are off the team by next year.

Adding the 1st rounder might be more palatable to the Rangers than having to deal with the cap hit of buying them both out, which would be very difficult to fit. Anyway, here's how it would shake out in my head:

Staal + 1st for a 2nd
Girardi bought out
Sign Smith
Sign Shattenkirk
Trade Klein for peanuts or pay Vegas to take him

Next year:

McD - Shattenkirk
Skjei - Smith
Holden - Graves/Pionk/Berezgalov
One of Graves/Pionk/Berezgalov as the 7th

By my calculations, even with the Girardi buyout, that D would cost just as much as this year's D if not less.

 

[qwertyaas]

Both...

I still can't believe we let Stralman walk over Staal. He should have been a priority. We went from one of the top D teams in the league to our current status.

 

[gorangers0525]

I think what would prevent Gorton from buying out both is not having readily available players that can step in and produce quality minutes in their place. That would take some additional maneuvering from his end.

Half of the AHL could provide the same quality mins staal and girardi provide.

The other half would provide better minutes.

 

[TheTakedown]

It's too bad Dallas isn't both cap strapped and in need D, because I would do Staal for Niemi in a heart beat.

 

[Riche16]

Find a way (without the buyout) to deal with one... then buyout the other.

I'm over both of them