Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Hockey Forum' started by LadyStanley, Jun 9, 2011.
Honestly wouldn't be surprised if most of those needed changes, such as more camera positions and a larger press box, had easy to do refurbishing plans in place if an NHL team ever came back, so this will probably be a piece of cake for 'em.
I listened to the Daly interview on 1290AM here in Winnipeg this afternoon. The most interesting thing he said was when he was asked if the MTSC was too small, his answer was no. He then went on to expand on this thought, to paraphrase, that TNSE consulted the league when planning the arena and Daly told them that there were a number of arenas that were constructed in the 90's that were just too big. The team owners are regretting overbuilding the arenas and several have done some renovations to decrease the capacity, but that in the future smaller buildings (I got the impression of 16.5k) would be more the norm going forward.
I found this very interesting..... any other observations?
The "Fenway" affect. Lower number of seats creates a higher demand. People know they may not be able to get a ticket on a walk-up so that causes a higher advance buy guaranteeing the team the money. Also with the higher demand they can charge more and probably make more than if they had more seats.
That's just obvious. Look at the NBA and NHL teams struggling to fill 19,000 seat arenas. If you look at MLB and the NFL, capacity for parks has stayed the same or gone down. It's rare to see an MLB team in the last 10 years or so that's built a stadium over 45,000, or an NFL team that's built a stadium over 65-67,000. Teams that got early on the stadium boom like Cleveland, Colorado and Baltimore have all these terrible nosebleed seats that nobody wants to buy because they built themselves too much stadium.
Boston's got the 4th smallest arena in the league - I remember when they replaced the Garden, 17,500 for hockey was considered big. It's not like hockey's gotten more popular since 1995, so you almost have to conclude too many cities built too much arena for their teams. Unless you are Montreal or the Rangers, building anything over 16-17,000 is probably overdoing it.
Anyone have any idea what the capacity of the proposed Edmonton arena is?
I think it's around the 18k mark.
I think also the theory is that those extra seats don't necessarily generate great revenue. Since the upper deck tickets of any facility get dramatically cheaper as you go up, you get diminishing returns. But the initial cost to install those seats, and to build a facility that size, is so much greater. Having an arena that holds 20% more seats doesn't mean it generates 20% more gate revenue. Indeed it could be only 5% more or something. And the building would cost so much more in the first place...it could take awhile to make a decent ROI. (just throwing out theoretical numbers here)
TNSE went with the idea that are is no 'nosebleed' section. The seats in the 'upper bowl' of the MTS Centre are as good as the 'middle bowl' of some larger arenas; thus they charged 'middle bowl' prices all the way around. And with the sellouts, now their estimate gate revenue is going to be like 7th in the league, despite having the smallest arena. Very interesting.
Ken King, the president of the Calgary Flames mentioned at a recent season ticket holder meeting that the capacity of the proposed new building for the Flames may be slightly smaller than the Saddledome.
An article about the renos was in the Winnipeg Free Press this morning, ahead of the Daly scrum:
i thought the reason for bigger arenas in the 1990s was to accomodate NBA basketball?
if thats the case, why edmonton's new arena, i don't know when they'll build it, would be 18,000 capacity?
I would guess there's enough demand to have 18,000.
If you have enough demand that you can charge people a lot for the nosebleeds, then you might as well have them.
I wonder if that will include the seats in the 100+ boxes they'll undoubtedly stuff into the place.
As for MTS, if David Thomson even thinks they could have gone smaller I'll probably hold off on my own criticism for the size. And wasn't TNSE starting on these renovations months ago (press box and suites at least)?
scarcity of tickets drives up prices which further screws consumers. it's the elitest NHL for saying **** you to the fans once again.
So many things wrong with this post I don't know where to begin.
Do most arenas have 2 levels or 3 levels? GM Place was built with 2, which seems to be great. Anyone know which arenas have 3 levels?
Boggle, I am amazed To hear the comments when the MTS Centre was built, it seemed that it was targeted strictly at the AHL, and there was no intention of ever going after the NHL.
A business trying to maximize profits? Oh the horror! Poor, poor customers spending all that money on tickets that they buy voluntarily.
St. Pete Times forum. Actually the nose bleeds are pretty damn good seats in its self. We have a 19,750 capacity. During playoffs we get a little over 20k fit in it.
I think that this is going to be the litmus test for this notion, and a lot of people are going to be watching very closely to see how it plays out. If TN can make it work, we could see potential ownership groups emerge from unlikely places, hailing from cities with arenas that were perceived to be too small, or from cities with no current arena and no justification for the 18,000-seat stadiums that were thought to be "needed" for a team to be successful.
Am I the only one with the cynical belief that if any market in the United States built a 15k-16.5k-seat arena, that they would have been roundly derided by the same people who are praising how "smart" the idea was by TNSE?
Ottawa has 3 levels, too.
Capacity for hockey is 19,153 (20,500 with standing room), which truthfully is probably a little bigger than this market needs.
You can also look at the other side of the argument in that a 17-18k capacity arena affords you the flexibility (revenuewise) to be able to host promotions (a la college nights, charity groups, etc.) With deeply discounted tickets. Collee nights are a perfect example in tha you could say its business and fanbase development as well as kids group nights.
With college students, even if 10% get hooked on the habit, some of them will return with a greater disposable income and curiousity that they would want to purchase higher margin seats ng become recurring revenue as STHs eventually. Parents with pockets would also be interested, etc.
It would be smart for TNSE to run walk up ticket promotions, because en if you get 10% out of 200 or so people, that's nmore potential waiting list and eventual STH, but in the meantime full price payers.
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