TSN Radio Daly Announced 2016-2017 Cap will Remain Flat - How Does This Impact the Leafs?

[Mess]

Yea, but all signs point to 0%, the players are saying they aren't bumping it.

All those contracts you mention count until the season starts. So if I get this right, in the off season, we can go up 10%, which is roughly 7mil. So really, we only have our space + 7mil in the off season, and not until the season starts will we get that room back. So really, we cant even fully use it.

We also have positions to fill, so can't act like we are rich with a bunch of holes.

Someone correct me if I am wrong on this.....

Your spot on .. Horton $5.3 mil and Robidas at $3.0 mil = $8.3 mil

10% overage of $71.4 mil ceiling = $7.14 mil over the cap allowance in the offseason.

10% offseason overage $7.14 mill allowance - $8.3 mil on LTIR = -$1.16 mil for Leafs to spend including the allowance in the offseason.

 

[Joey Hoser]

More demand for cap-relief services that the Leafs are in a position to provide.

 

[Leafsman]

Willy was on the Leafs when the season ended that is why he is included in this years numbers also why the 3 you mentioned are included as well for now.

Makes sense, otherwise they'd have to predict the roster.

 

[Babcocks Marner]

I'm not sure where you think we're going to allocate another 14 Million dollars... Even if we sign Stammer to a 10M contract and pick up say Demers for 5M and a goalie for 3M, we're still laughing at only 4M over the cap with a totally "stacked" 23 man roster. Under the 7M limit.

Now drop our dead weight.

Now trade a player or two.

This is a joke, we're actually in one of the best spots financially we've ever been in with our only real contracts going to Kadri, Rielly, JVR, Bozak, Komarov, Gardiner. That's it. Take any other player on our current roster making over a million dollars and we can bury them/buy them out/trade them/LTIR/Move to europe/etc.

We are great in terms of finance.... just not so much for next year.... going forward, we might be the best cap team.

By my calcs we got 15mil to spend if needed. 10+5+3= over cap. LTIR will not help, as they COUNT during the off season, up until the start of the season. So you can't use that money on FAs, you can only use your space+10% which is 15mil.

Sure we can buy players out, trade etc..... but as it stands, without doing anything, we got 15mil. Trading may also be more difficult now.

Nobody is arguing you can't make moves to free up space.

 

[WTFMAN99]

More demand for cap-relief services that the Leafs are in a position to provide.

If the Leafs don't jump into the Stamkos sweepstakes then we can definitely provide that service to teams for a few pretty pennies.

 

[TMLife*]

We are great in terms of finance.... just not so much for next year.... going forward, we might be the best cap team.

By my calcs we got 15mil to spend if needed. 10+5+3= over cap. LTIR will not help, as they COUNT during the off season, up until the start of the season. So you can't use that money on FAs, you can only use your space+10% which is 15mil.

Sure we can buy players out, trade etc..... but as it stands, without doing anything, we got 15mil. Trading may also be more difficult now.

Nobody is arguing you can't make moves to free up space.

Ya I did some bad math there, whoops

 

[Mess]

A couple more points to consider in regards to the cap.

LTIR comes with strings attached.. Leafs only get to recapture cap space on Horton's contract when it pushes them above the cap ceiling of $71.4 mil. While below max spending his full $5.3 mil is included in Leafs total.

Robidas signed his deal after age +35 and there are also special rules in the CBA for these contracts and the cap consequences. They count against your cap regardless if the player plays or doesn't play even if he retires it still counts. Detroit is in this same pickle with Datsyuk as if he walks away from the NHL and plays in the KHL his full $7.5 mil contract is still on Wings books regardless. Robidas contract is just like this situation unless Leafs capologist Brandon Pridham finds a new loophole (unable to play exemption ?? ) So getting his $3 mil off the books not so easy and last year the full $3 mil counted and Leafs never put him on LTIR knowing it didn't serve any purpose as far as cap relief went. .

Lastly all ELC rookie contracts come with a base amount that counts against the teams cap ceiling, and those contracts also include various bonuses earned that can increase the base by quite a bit if they are actually realized over the course of the season as earned.. There is a 6% overage [ bonus slush fund] allowance for those bonuses above the cap ceiling BUT if you can't at end of season fit those ELC Bonuses under the current cap season they get differed and come off 2017 cap total as a cap penalty the following year. The Hawks got into cap hell with Toews and Kane because they had such good rookies seasons and Kane winning the Calder etc that they suffered almost $5 mil in cap penalties the following season and why they had to dump Ladd, Big Buff and others to accommodate those rookie bonuses triggered.

Leafs plan on playing a lot of rookies ie Matthews, Nylander, Marner, Zaitsev and these players are certain to be earning those bonuses which could amount to $4-5 mil essentially depending on which ones are triggered.

The catch 22 here is if the Leafs underspend the Cap ceiling to allow for accommodating Matthews, Marner and Nylanders bonus in 2016 then they can't spend to the cap ceiling to try and nullify Hortons $5.3 mil cap hit on LTIR.

So pick your poison on that situation essentially cap relief this year (from Horton) verses cap penalties next year as bonus overages carried forward to 2017 cap.

 

[Babcocks Marner]

Your spot on .. Horton $5.3 mil and Robidas at $3.0 mil = $8.3 mil

10% overage of $71.4 mil ceiling = $7.14 mil over the cap allowance in the offseason.

10% offseason overage $7.14 mill allowance - $8.3 mil on LTIR = -$1.16 mil for Leafs to spend including the allowance in the offseason.

Thanks to you and other helpful posters.

I always get confused with the CBA, all the lawyer jumbo jargon. Now I fully understand why Robs isn't on LTIR, because there is no need, and/or real benefit at the moment.

 

[WTFMAN99]

A couple more points to consider in regards to the cap.

LTIR comes with strings attached.. Leafs only get to recapture cap space on Horton's contract when it pushes them above the cap ceiling of $71.4 mil. While below max spending his full $5.3 mil is included in Leafs total.

Robidas signed his deal after age +35 and there are also special rules in the CBA for these contracts and the cap consequences. They count against your cap regardless if the player plays or doesn't play even if he retires it still counts. Detroit is in this same pickle with Datsyuk as if he walks away from the NHL and plays in the KHL his full $7.5 mil contract is still on Wings books regardless. Robidas contract is just like this situation unless Leafs capologist Brandon Pridham finds a new loophole (unable to play exemption ?? ) So getting his $3 mil off the books not so easy and last year the full $3 mil counted and Leafs never put him on LTIR knowing it didn't serve any purpose as far as cap relief went. .

Lastly all ELC rookie contracts come with at base amount that counts against the cap and those contracts include various bonuses earned that can increase the base by quite a bit if earned.. There is a 6% overage allowance for those bonuses above the cap ceiling BUT if you can't at end of season fit those ELC Bonuses under the current cap season they get deffered and come of 2017 cap total.

Leafs plan on playing a lot of rookies ie Matthews, Nylander, Marner, Zaitsev and these players are certain to be earning those bonuses which could amount to $4-5 mil essentially depending on which ones are triggered.

The catch 22 here is if the Leafs underspend the Cap ceiling to allow for accommodating Matthews, Marner and Nylanders bonus in 2016 then they can't spend to the cap ceiling to try and nullify Hortons $5.3 mil cap hit on IR.

So pick your poison on that situation essentially cap relief this year (from Horton) verses cap penalties next year as bonus overages carried forwards to 2017 cap.

I think Robidas becomes appealing after July 1st.

His salary is 2M and 1M of it is a signing bonus the Leafs pay on July 1st, so essentially 1M (but insurance pays it anyway) and you could have a 3M cap hit, if you're a budget team this could be useful.

Carolina might be interested for a year.

 

[Babcocks Marner]

Ya I did some bad math there, whoops

No worries. I do it all the time, and I am an engineer.

I know you want Stamkos, and it is still very possible, so no worries on that if that's what management wants to do... It can be worked in, little tight, but worked in. I think just Cowen alone would net us about 1.7mil (since 2mil is already buried)

 

[Mess]

I think Robidas becomes appealing after July 1st.

His salary is 2M and 1M of it is a signing bonus the Leafs pay on July 1st, so essentially 1M (but insurance pays it anyway) and you could have a 3M cap hit, if you're a budget team this could be useful.

Carolina might be interested for a year.

Canes and other teams trying to get to the cap floor might find Datsyuk $7.5 mil hit more appealing as it will come with a nice pick and or prospect to take it off Detroit's hands and the kicker because Dats retires there is no salary $$ that needs to be paid only applying his cap in full to help push you above the floor.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Canes and other teams trying to get to the cap floor might find Datsyuk $7.5 mil hit more appealing as it will come with a nice pick and or prospect to take it off Detroit's hands and the kicker because Dats retires there is no salary $$ that needs to be paid only applying his cap in full to help push you above the floor.

I think if someone took Robidas the Leafs would likely just take 1 contract back to help balance things, or attach something like a 6-7th round pick along with Robidas for the trouble.

 

[Mats13]

I think it gives us a legitimate chance at pulling off a trade for Ben Bishop.

Tampa has quite a few players they need to sign over the next 2 years. And with Vas showing he's pretty damn good, they could shed some salary by trading Bishop.

Don't think it will happen, but it doesn't hurt to hope.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Leafs have wayyyyy more room than it appears. We're talking over 20M cap space if we wanted it.

2016-17 Salary Cap: 71.4M + 5%(likely to raise only 5%) = 75M

2016-17 Leafs Current Cap Hit: 64.5M (Already have 10.5M to spare with a 20 man roster including Horton/Robidas/Cowen)

Now subtract Horton/Robidas/Cowen: 64.5M - 11.4M = 53.1M (21.9M to spare with a 17 man roster)

Leaving us other contracts such as:

Lupul - 5.25M
Laich - 4.5M
Michalek - 4M
Greening - 2.65M
Bernier - 4.15M

If anyone thinks we're in cap trouble, think again. Not. Even. Close.

You are right, we are in sweet shape. For some reason its being spun we are up against it. It is pretty funny. Lots of options for the team.

 

[SprDaVE]

Do you realize that Ducks had one of the lowest caps (8th lowest) and only a couple hundred bucks ahead of Avs.

Ducks have almost $7 mil less than the Leafs committed.

http://www.generalfanager.com/teams

Yeah but look at who they have to sign compared to us.

That number will drastically change after they re-sign Rackell, Vatanen, Lindholm, and potentially even Andersen. Next year they have Fowler to re-sign as well.

They have options but they have to make some big decisions more than likely. That extra cap space could have been a big time save for them.

 

[WestCoastLeafs]

Sigh - another 20 posts about Robidas being on the LTIR.

Robidas was not on the LTIR last year, and will not be on the LTIR next year, barring a legitimate injury.

He was on the regular IR, which does not provide cap relief, the entire season. The regular IR does not provide cap relief, it only opens up a roster space, and only requires an opinion of the team's medical staff. LTIR moves can be challenged by the league, in which case the player is assessed by an outside doctor. (And yes, they would challenge a season-long mystery injury.)

I know it's fun to pretend Lou is part of the mafia and he can make players disappear. But no, he's not part of the mafia, he's an NHL GM, and he plays by NHL rules. If the LTIR loophole actually existed, lots of teams would be abusing it, just like the send-to-the-minors loophole was abused when it existed. But the LTIR loophole doesn't exist, so no one is abusing it, including the Leafs.

Reference: Leafs end of season cap structure - see how Horton is on LTIR and Robidas isn't?

 

[saltming]

The NHLPA can vote in favor of using the inflator for 5%, it does effect their escrow though.

If the cap did stay flat though otherwise, some teams would have difficulty in keeping players around.

Dumping salary is going to be impossible/require money coming back/cost a LOT of assets to have another team take a cap dump.

Basically Lupul is an impossibility to move, Bozak MAYBE. Not sure what else will really occur. It does make it tighter on teams like CHI/NYR/TBL/WSH to make moves though.

I thought the nhl had to ask for it and then the nhlpa would decide/ vote if they would give it?

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I would like to see a link because i couldn't find it???

The roster will likely be turned over in a big way before the season stsrts anyway. We do need some cap challenges to go away. The transition will be interesting to watch.

 

[Leafsman]

I would like to see a link because i couldn't find it???

The roster will likely be turned over in a big way before the season stsrts anyway. We do need some cap challenges to go away. The transition will be interesting to watch.

They talk about it here:

http://www.tsn.ca/buckle-up-for-a-busy-month-of-trade-activity-1.500124

 

[Budsfan]

They talk about it here:

http://www.tsn.ca/buckle-up-for-a-busy-month-of-trade-activity-1.500124

I saw that and watched the video, could be a lot of good players on the move, one I might have a look at RNH @ 5years X 6 mill, depending on the cost, could be a bargain.

 

[Leafsman]

I saw that and watched the video, could be a lot of good players on the move, one I might have a look at RNH @ 5years X 6 mill, depending on the cost, could be a bargain.

Could be real good depending on the asking price. The contract beats 7 years @ around $10M for Stamkos. $4M savings to use elsewhere.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

This is not a official announcement. It was a projection.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

They talk about it here:

http://www.tsn.ca/buckle-up-for-a-busy-month-of-trade-activity-1.500124

Thanks. Just rumors really at this point. The entire thing including the cap.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

The PA will use the inflator they always do they aren't going to not use it on the biggest UFA crop in 15 years.

 

[hotpaws]

The PA will use the inflator they always do they aren't going to not use it on the biggest UFA crop in 15 years.

yup they always have but every time they do they vote themselves a a pay cut and i don't see them continuing to do this