I've lived in both South Florida and Arizona. I'd say Florida is easily losing more...They just have richer owner. Hockey is a lot stronger in AZ.
Dale Tallon: Panthers lose "between 28 to 30 million dollars per year"
- Thread starter justafan22
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I've lived in both South Florida and Arizona. I'd say Florida is easily losing more...They just have richer owner. Hockey is a lot stronger in AZ.
BruinsBtn
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When I wrote "they're still an amazing investment overall," how was that ambiguous for you?
Hatter of the Beach
I’m the real hero
You do realize if the Coyotes didn’t exist your team would probably have Patrick Laine instead of Austin Matthews, right?
I'd like to see the details. That's a terrible business operation if it's losing that much every year. And I know that sports teams aren't where you go if you want to maximize profits, but that's an insane loss and I can't imagine an owner wants to put up with that forever.
(I don't want the Panthers to move btw)
(I don't want the Panthers to move btw)
SI90
Registered User
I don’t get it. They have good young players and are exciting to watch. I went to the area once for a game while visiting family and it was really nice. Walked up in a tank top and shorts to see a hockey game.
Why do they ha e so much trouble getting fans to come and watch?
Why do they ha e so much trouble getting fans to come and watch?
Machinehead
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The reasoning as to why the franchise gain in value was flawed to begin with. It's not because there's buyers entering a bidding war for a limited supply, it's because professional leagues generate a ton of money, whether it's by operating income from teams, TV deals, merchandising, you name it. Franchises wouldn't gain value if the fundamentals behind their value weren't solid.
Your initial post wasn't necessarily ambiguous, it was just misleading.
Also, you can't just say buying a team is a poor investment on a P&L basis, because it's essentially irrelevant. Or else you might as well say real estate investments aren't good because hey, their return on invested capital is low!
It may be true in a way, but it doesn't make it any less irrelevant.
Machinehead
GoAwayTrouba
tarheelhockey
Offside Review Specialist
I think you’re severely underestimating how “exciting” it is to watch a team get throttled in its 400th consecutive meaningless game. Eventually people switch off their emotional and financial investment.
Attendance figures are HEAVILY driven by season ticket sales, so once a fanbase bails it does tend to empty the arena. And it takes a substantial increase in the value of tickets (in the form of playoff opportunity) to build it back.
TomasHertlsRooster
Don’t say eye test when you mean points
SI90
Registered User
I get the people want to spend thier hard earned money on a winner but the panthers weren’t exactly a bottom of the Barrel team. They have Barkov who’s one of the best players in the NHL.
I’m not expecting sellouts but I’m surprised at just how empty the arena is on a given night.
I’m an isles fan and when I went to the game they happened to be playing the rangers. So many New Yorkers in FLA and the place was probably half ranger fans. I can’t imagine how empty the building would have been had they not played a New York team.
Arenas in a garbage location if they move it downtown idk why not. Enough people visit and miami is a big city .
angusyoung
Back in the day, I was always horny!
greasysnapper
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He's been owner for almost 6 years too. That's 168 mil at 28 x 6!
There comes a time when it's just not worth it. I'm sure the Entertainment side of things brings in some money it's a pretty nice arena, and it gets a lot of top singers and acts, but I can't imagine a financial wiz who created Virtu Financial would be willing to continue to take these hard hits year after year to his bottom line. It wouldn't surprise me if he moves the team after citing these losses and then sells the team once it's in Quebec or Texas.
When you add the current loss, and then consider his $250 mil buy of the franchise, he's only at $418 mil. There's still a little room here to make money considering what teams like Seattle and Vegas paid for franchises. Say this team becomes a winner, and has a lot of youth, it'll easily make him a profit. Make no mistake Florida fans, Viola is a businessman and his plan is to move the team to make a profit.
There comes a time when it's just not worth it. I'm sure the Entertainment side of things brings in some money it's a pretty nice arena, and it gets a lot of top singers and acts, but I can't imagine a financial wiz who created Virtu Financial would be willing to continue to take these hard hits year after year to his bottom line. It wouldn't surprise me if he moves the team after citing these losses and then sells the team once it's in Quebec or Texas.
When you add the current loss, and then consider his $250 mil buy of the franchise, he's only at $418 mil. There's still a little room here to make money considering what teams like Seattle and Vegas paid for franchises. Say this team becomes a winner, and has a lot of youth, it'll easily make him a profit. Make no mistake Florida fans, Viola is a businessman and his plan is to move the team to make a profit.
Franchises tend to be good investments. You tend to be able to make the city foot some of the bill for a new arena and then buy all the property around it if you're smart . If you just buy the team it's long term and resale ends up being decent .
Like new franchises were 500 and 600 million . A used one was 160 to move to Winnipeg .
GlitchMarner
Typical malevolent, devious & vile Maple Leafs fan
This is the real answer.
Billionaires don't sign up to lose money every year, and even some success wouldn't earn the Panthers an extra $30M a season.
I remember reading an article during the last lockout (maybe even by Friedman) covering this subject and a lot of it comes down to Hockey Related Revenue and the very vague definition it entails. While I believe the PANTHERS lose money every season, what they don't mention is that as part of owning the Panthers they also have the stadium rights and all the parking and concerts and merch etc to comes with it. The hockey club is just a loss leader to farm the real profit off of the building and tax discounts given out.
Seattle payed for like twenty years of loses and they will probably sell out being right next to Vancouver
Hischier and Hughes
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BruinsBtn
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You're 100% wrong. Professional sports teams are a terrible investment on an operating basis. You literally don't need to look any further than this thread. It's about a guy who paid $250m for something that loses $30m a year. The only reason it can be a great investment overall is that someone like him is willing to buy it for $600m because supply of pro sports franchises are limited.
They're trophies for billionaires. Terry Pegula literally said that when he bought the Sabres. He said, "I'm not buying this to make money, I want to bring the Stanley Cup to Buffalo. If I wanted more money I'd drill another oil well."
Nevermind that you literally just repeated my argument in your first post and now you're moving the goalposts because I embarrassed you.
As an actual long term investment have any of them actually lost money ? It's def a toy investment for rich people but I doubt any long term owners lost money
