Confirmed with Link: DAL trades Chiasson/Guptill/Paul/2nd R to OTT for Spezza/L Karlsson

piqued

nos merentur hoc
Nov 22, 2006
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It is bringing out a top 4 D for another top 4 D to only change handedness. That isn't worth the upgrade. Now if it was signing Stralman and dumping Gonchar, I'd be all over that. You keep your Top 4 and add another guy that is Top 4 quality. You still need that top pairing guy, but you have more quality depth.
Most would rate Stralman above Goligoski or Daley.

And part of the point would be not to have all 3 undersized players on the team at once and taking a development spot away.

I'm also not confident that Goligoski-Daley as a pairing is a long-term solution.
 

hairylikebear

///////////////
Apr 30, 2009
4,177
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I'm sure Stralman was considered but either the money or the term was prohibitive. Also both Goligoski and Daley have NTCs so that kind of maneuver has the potential to backfire catastrophically.
 

MetalGodAOD*

Guest
It is bringing out a top 4 D for another top 4 D to only change handedness. That isn't worth the upgrade. Now if it was signing Stralman and dumping Gonchar, I'd be all over that. You keep your Top 4 and add another guy that is Top 4 quality. You still need that top pairing guy, but you have more quality depth.

Also consider we'd have the assets from the Goose/Daley trade, probably another 2nd at the least.
 

LT

Global Moderator
Jul 23, 2010
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Daley won't be moving, he's too much of a character guy and seems to be exactly what Nill wants on the back-end, especially in a second pairing defender.

Goligoski was just starting to show flashes of that player we traded for originally at the end of last season. Let's imagine he actually does keep that up going into next season. How stupid would trading him look then?

Stralman isn't a big enough upgrade to warrant that kind of probable mess. And, like Goligoski, there's no guarantee he keeps up his solid play through next season. I wouldn't have been upset had that happened, but to be upset that it didn't is a bit ridiculous.

There's also no guarantee that Stralman would've signed here anyway. I'm pretty confident in what Nill sees on the back-end, and I get the feeling that (at least) one of the youngsters will really surprise us.
 

beepeearr

@beepeearr
Jan 11, 2006
1,314
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Lake Worth
Most would rate Stralman above Goligoski or Daley.

And part of the point would be not to have all 3 undersized players on the team at once and taking a development spot away.

I'm also not confident that Goligoski-Daley as a pairing is a long-term solution.

I can understand the last part about not being confident in them as a pair, but I really don't get where Stralman is rated higher. He's never had to handle the load of a top pairing (both Goligoski and Daley have, and did remarkably well at it, see the latter part of last season) Daley has always been fast and sound in his own end, and though not as offensive as we always hoped he would be he typically is good for 25 points, Stralman got what 13 15 points this year? Goligoski got into the 40s right. The biggest problem with this pairing is what happens when they get out muscled in there own end? Does Stralman fix this, by all accounts not really. Is he quicker then Daley, better passer then Goligoski? He's right handed, oh, ok.

I want balance on the Blue line too, and Daleys trade value will probably never be higher, heck maybe Goligoskis too. Do I want to trade either for another 3 or 4, no. I would rather gamble on their apparent chemistry together then take a chance someone else might have chemistry if a bonafide 1 or maybe 2 isnt coming Dallas way depending on the package leaving Dallas. I do agree that unless Gonchar has some miraculous turn around he should sit.
 

piqued

nos merentur hoc
Nov 22, 2006
32,096
3,127
Goligoski was just starting to show flashes of that player we traded for originally at the end of last season. Let's imagine he actually does keep that up going into next season. How stupid would trading him look then?
Let's imagine he returns to the form we've seen for the majority of his time in Dallas. Would trading him when his value was high look stupid?
Stralman isn't a big enough upgrade to warrant that kind of probable mess. And, like Goligoski, there's no guarantee he keeps up his solid play through next season. I wouldn't have been upset had that happened, but to be upset that it didn't is a bit ridiculous.
I'm not upset. I'm offering an alternative to the idea that there was no avenue available to upgrade the defense this offseason and that Nill had no choice but to stand pat.
There's also no guarantee that Stralman would've signed here anyway.
No, but as we've seen from our other acquisitions Dallas is now thought of positively by many players around the league.
I'm pretty confident in what Nill sees on the back-end, and I get the feeling that (at least) one of the youngsters will really surprise us.
This plan wouldn't interfere with Nill's desire to leave open a spot for 2 young players (Nemeth + X)
 

LT

Global Moderator
Jul 23, 2010
41,790
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Let's imagine he returns to the form we've seen for the majority of his time in Dallas. Would trading him when his value was high look stupid?

It's a risk, one that most GMs would rather not take. Unless the return is great, it's simply not worth that risk IMO. Guess we'll agree to disagree here.

I'm not upset. I'm offering an alternative to the idea that there was no avenue available to upgrade the defense this offseason and that Nill had no choice but to stand pat.

I don't know that Stralman is the best pick here for an upgrade. If we're assuming we could've signed anyone, why not Fayne? A fairly big RHD who can play top 4 minutes. I'm certain Dallas was nowhere on Ehrhoff's radar, as ideal as he would've been. And again, I point to Nill doing his best to instill confidence in our defense from top to bottom. If Nill thought he had a way to upgrade the defense, I don't see any reason why he wouldn't have.

No, but as we've seen from our other acquisitions Dallas is now thought of positively by many players around the league.

Doesn't mean Stralman feels that way. It's not as if Tampa isn't a pretty great place to go and play right now, either.

This plan wouldn't interfere with Nill's desire to leave open a spot for 2 young players (Nemeth + X)

Didn't say it wouldn't. I was referring more to the established players than the youngsters with the first statement.
 
Jan 9, 2007
20,125
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Australia
Yea that would have been a clear upgrade and a return on assets, as well as making the D stronger. No way that's re-arranging.

Hard to say without knowing what the return on Daley or Goligoski would have been. Not saying I wouldn't be on board with it, but I just don't see that particular move as a significant upgrade. The D-corps is patchwork, we all know that. I would honestly rather have Daley at 3.3 over Stralman at 4.5 though.
 
Jan 9, 2007
20,125
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Australia
I'm also not confident that Goligoski-Daley as a pairing is a long-term solution.

I don't think Nill views them as a long term solution as a pairing. I think he wants to ride the hot hand while it lasts and hopes it lasts long enough for 2-3 of our prospects to come up and solidify NHL jobs before sending one of those guys away.

Personally, I think he's played it brilliantly. You're right that Goligoski could go back to his former ****** play, but if he doesn't and we get a few young guys to push him out of a spot in a year or so we're sitting pretty. He's only under contract for two more years. Daley for three more years at 3.3M is just a damn good value right now. Unless we were going to get a player to help right away for him I'd rather keep him.
 

MetalGodAOD*

Guest
Chiasson had some interesting quotes I saw today:

There’s quite a bit of opportunity for players to compete for spots and roles on the team.

“I think that's one of the really key parts when I looked at the trade with me coming here. I think in Dallas I was playing a little bit behind some really good players. Jamie Benn, Tyler Seguin, Nichushkin, a lot of the guys are good players. I think for me to come here, it’s really a good opportunity to take my game to the next level. I’ve had a really good summer of training. I was just in Toronto these past couple of days here, working... on my skating. I’m really looking forward to September. Just being in a Canadian market where hockey means so much and being close to home for my family... to come and watch. Should be just overall a really good experience and hopefully I can play here for a long time.”

Why the great start last year and how difficult was it when you got sick?

“I think the great start, just knowing I was healthy. A lot of the game, you realize quickly is mental. When you start thinking too much... I was missing blank opportunities that I don’t usually miss and a lot of the things weren’t going my way. But at the same time, like you said, first year you realize this is a game and every night opponents come and they show up. Everyone wants to do well here and you compete for playoffs and that was a big thing in Dallas. The team hasn’t been there in playoffs for awhile and I learned what it is, playoff hockey. That’s huge. When you’re young, you watch and it’s the best part of the season. Hopefully, I know Ottawa’s been – not last year, but a few years before and I want to live that again here. It’s really a great part and I think there’s a lot of learning experiences I learned last year. The traveling and the eating, and how to treat your body. Those rest days, to really take good care of yourself as a young guy. Sometimes you need treatment and you need to take care of yourself more than you need to go watch a movie at the theatre. So I think these are all the little things you learn. I was surrounded by really good people there in Dallas. Stephane Robidas, who’s now part of the Leafs, really took care of me and taught me a lot about the game. The right parts. Really respect the game. I think that’s the type of player I want to become in the next few years. Like I said, I couldn’t be more excited to be part of this organization. Like you said, a young group of guys coming in the next couple of years and I’m really looking forward to that.”

http://www.nicholsonhockey.com/worthreading/2014/7/24/nichols-notes

Not knocking him at all, but saying he was behind Benn/Seguin/Nuke is a bit silly. He got plenty of time in the top 6. Of course what else is he going to say in that situation, he's got to answer positively for the new situation.
 

MBTendy

Registered User
May 6, 2009
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Definitely going to be buying a Toaster t-shirt once I move back to Ottawa for my last year of schooling.
 

Primetimey*

Guest
So, you were behind an 18 year old Russian, first time in North America, rookie, and that is your excuse for getting left behind?

HAHAHAHAHA
 

dechire

TBL Stanley Cup Champs 2020 2021
Jul 8, 2014
16,675
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I've been rewatching every game from last season for the past couple of weeks so his complete nosedive is really fresh in my memory. That 4th line with him, Whitney and Horcoff in particular was like an offensive black hole of missed opportunities and endless disappointment. And he still got a lot more PP time than he deserved. He's not a terrible player and obviously he has a lot of potential but there's a reason he didn't stay on the top line. And I think his potential puts him solidly on the 2nd line but he's not a 1st line star like Benn and Seguin are and Nichushkin will hopefully grow to be
 

Dr Pepper

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Dec 9, 2005
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I've been rewatching every game from last season for the past couple of weeks so his complete nosedive is really fresh in my memory. That 4th line with him, Whitney and Horcoff in particular was like an offensive black hole of missed opportunities and endless disappointment. And he still got a lot more PP time than he deserved. He's not a terrible player and obviously he has a lot of potential but there's a reason he didn't stay on the top line. And I think his potential puts him solidly on the 2nd line but he's not a 1st line star like Benn and Seguin are and Nichushkin will hopefully grow to be

Indeed he did, and what really irked me throughout the season was that we never did figure out why he got such a boatload of opportunities when it was quite clear that he was not producing.

Did Lindy just keep throwing him out there in hopes that he'd find his game again? :help:
 

MetalGodAOD*

Guest
He actually looks pretty good in that sweater. Hope he does well.
 

Ambassador Of Fun

Registered User
Jun 23, 2010
2,780
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I think that's one of the really key parts when I looked at the trade with me coming here. I think in Dallas I was playing a little bit behind some really good players. Jamie Benn, Tyler Seguin, Nichushkin, a lot of the guys are good players. I think for me to come here, it’s really a good opportunity to take my game to the next level.

I'm coming from a team with a bunch of good players, the good thing about coming here is all these guys are scrubs :laugh::sarcasm:
 

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