CXLVII - Is this the 'Final Countdown' in Arizona?

[TheLegend]

Can you elaborate on the bolded, please & thanks.

From the PBJ article….

This is significant because the City of Phoenix’s lease of the city-owned Footprint Center to the Suns prohibits the city from providing any economic assistance to a competing facility. The Suns declined to comment on whether they believe the city’s involvement in the establishment of a theme park district for the Coyotes would violate the lease agreement. Lease language aside, multiple sources suggested Phoenix might be reluctant to sign off on a mechanism that would help the Coyotes finance an entertainment district that has the potential to take away business from its downtown arena.

I think as @awfulwaffle mentions above we’d need to see the actual lease for Footprint to see the the language is.

 

[aqib]

I agree just because they are billionaires doesn’t make them great at everything. But making money is their expertise. Business of sport is still business last time I checked. And considering NHL makes money hand over fist there is no indication what so ever NHL management is bad at it. Moral failure is another story but that’s for another time.

Again, have to keep reminding people Coyotes would have been gone long ago if owners wanted them to. It’s really that simple.

We've seen plenty of people who are successful in other walks of life get their a$$ handed to them in sports ownership, particularly NHL. Remember the bankruptcy judge said the best way to make a small fortune is to start with a big fortune and then buy an NHL team.

As for the owners wanting or not wanting the Coyotes in Arizona, there is a difference between not wanting them there and making being willing to have a fight over it. The reality is many owners MAY feel that it would be better if the Coyotes left. Others may feel that they would rather get a couple of big expansion fees and let the Coyotes go to one of the runners up. We won't know unless we took a poll of NHL owners. It maybe that they have other things to worry about and its not one of their most pressing concerns.

Regarding who works for who, this is something we will never achieve consensus on. While yes technically Bettman is an employee of the NHL. All but a handful of the owners have come in after he became commish so they had to kiss his ring to become owners. Sure if there was a spontaneous outrage among the owners they could oust him. The reality is it would take owners banding together and building a movement over time and odds are they would get smacked down early on. Jerry Jones tried to squash Goodell's extension but it got nipped in the bud early.

 

[sneakytitz]

We've seen plenty of people who are successful in other walks of life get their a$$ handed to them in sports ownership, particularly NHL. Remember the bankruptcy judge said the best way to make a small fortune is to start with a big fortune and then buy an NHL team.

As for the owners wanting or not wanting the Coyotes in Arizona, there is a difference between not wanting them there and making being willing to have a fight over it. The reality is many owners MAY feel that it would be better if the Coyotes left. Others may feel that they would rather get a couple of big expansion fees and let the Coyotes go to one of the runners up. We won't know unless we took a poll of NHL owners. It maybe that they have other things to worry about and its not one of their most pressing concerns.

Regarding who works for who, this is something we will never achieve consensus on. While yes technically Bettman is an employee of the NHL. All but a handful of the owners have come in after he became commish so they had to kiss his ring to become owners. Sure if there was a spontaneous outrage among the owners they could oust him. The reality is it would take owners banding together and building a movement over time and odds are they would get smacked down early on. Jerry Jones tried to squash Goodell's extension but it got nipped in the bud early.

I don't know the ownership-commissioner NHL relationship all that well but I know the NFL version pretty well. Goodell is both the face and fall guy for a number of things (rule changes, CTE, spygate, deflategate, officiating, everything). That is why the owners love him - the issues of the league get attached to him and almost him alone (minus Stan Kroenke). Jerry Jones and Al Davis always thought/think they're smarter and can do better, that was/is just their personality. But the other 31 billionaires, they're very keen on Goodell's purpose and function.

The on-field product is going to continue to print money, but it takes a special soul to be hated and still put on that smile every day. There is a reason the owners have had no problem paying Goodell more per year than the commissioners of the NBA, MLB, NHL, WNBA, and MLS....combined.

That said, Goodell is borderline exceptional at his job. He rarely makes mistakes that would jeopardize the NFL brand or on-field product. So as bad as a human being as he is, Goodell is something Bettman can never be: a successful commissioner.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

We've seen plenty of people who are successful in other walks of life get their a$$ handed to them in sports ownership, particularly NHL. Remember the bankruptcy judge said the best way to make a small fortune is to start with a big fortune and then buy an NHL team.

As for the owners wanting or not wanting the Coyotes in Arizona, there is a difference between not wanting them there and making being willing to have a fight over it. The reality is many owners MAY feel that it would be better if the Coyotes left. Others may feel that they would rather get a couple of big expansion fees and let the Coyotes go to one of the runners up. We won't know unless we took a poll of NHL owners. It maybe that they have other things to worry about and its not one of their most pressing concerns.

Regarding who works for who, this is something we will never achieve consensus on. While yes technically Bettman is an employee of the NHL. All but a handful of the owners have come in after he became commish so they had to kiss his ring to become owners. Sure if there was a spontaneous outrage among the owners they could oust him. The reality is it would take owners banding together and building a movement over time and odds are they would get smacked down early on. Jerry Jones tried to squash Goodell's extension but it got nipped in the bud early.

I suspect long time owners of NHL who backs ol Gary are not one of those people.

Considering how we rarely ever heard a peep of rumor about NHL owners not being happy (until recently that is), I suspect wanting to keep Coyotes in Arizona was pretty unanimous. Of course it seems their patience has worn out.

At the end of the day its NHL owners who vote to allow who in the league. I am sure pissing Bettman off isn't smart, but once you are in, you are his boss.

 

[LT]

I don't know the ownership-commissioner NHL relationship all that well but I know the NFL version pretty well. Goodell is both the face and fall guy for a number of things (rule changes, CTE, spygate, deflategate, officiating, everything). That is why the owners love him - the issues of the league get attached to him and almost him alone (minus Stan Kroenke). Jerry Jones and Al Davis always thought/think they're smarter and can do better, that was/is just their personality. But the other 31 billionaires, they're very keen on Goodell's purpose and function.

The on-field product is going to continue to print money, but it takes a special soul to be hated and still put on that smile every day. There is a reason the owners have had no problem paying Goodell more per year than the commissioners of the NBA, MLB, NHL, WNBA, and MLS....combined.

That said, Goodell is borderline exceptional at his job. He rarely makes mistakes that would jeopardize the NFL brand or on-field product. So as bad as a human being as he is, Goodell is something Bettman can never be: a successful commissioner.

Suggesting Bettman isn't successful is ridiculous. As a money-making business, the NHL has absolutely exploded under Bettman's guidance. He's kept the owners happy and made them boatloads of money in the process, all while expanding the sport across the US. He has done his job, and then some.

 

[GKJ]

Bettman has been a success as a commissioner relative to where the league was when he took over. But he has not been compared to the success other leagues have seen.

 

[aqib]

I suspect long time owners of NHL who backs ol Gary are not one of those people.

Considering how we rarely ever heard a peep of rumor about NHL owners not being happy (until recently that is), I suspect wanting to keep Coyotes in Arizona was pretty unanimous. Of course it seems their patience has worn out.

At the end of the day its NHL owners who vote to allow who in the league. I am sure pissing Bettman off isn't smart, but once you are in, you are his boss.

At first it was an issue of control since Balsillie wanted to move the team in contravention of league rules. Then there was the whole issue of setting a precedent of abandoning a city so soon after they built an arena which would have complicated the arena negotiations going on at the time. However there really isn't much to indicate that owners really felt strongly about the Phoenix market itself.

As far as being his boss ask Moyes or ASG how it worked out for them. They were his bosses too but he was more than happy to take them out back and beat them up when they stepped out of line.

 

[TheLegend]

At first it was an issue of control since Balsillie wanted to move the team in contravention of league rules. Then there was the whole issue of setting a precedent of abandoning a city so soon after they built an arena which would have complicated the arena negotiations going on at the time. However there really isn't much to indicate that owners really felt strongly about the Phoenix market itself.

As far as being his boss ask Moyes or ASG how it worked out for them. They were his bosses too but he was more than happy to take them out back and beat them up when they stepped out of line.

I can’t stop laughing about someone even entertaining the thought that Jerry Moyes was ever a serious owner.

He literally got the team by default.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

At first it was an issue of control since Balsillie wanted to move the team in contravention of league rules. Then there was the whole issue of setting a precedent of abandoning a city so soon after they built an arena which would have complicated the arena negotiations going on at the time. However there really isn't much to indicate that owners really felt strongly about the Phoenix market itself.

As far as being his boss ask Moyes or ASG how it worked out for them. They were his bosses too but he was more than happy to take them out back and beat them up when they stepped out of line.

They could have easily sold the team to someone else other than Balsillie and get them out. They didn’t. I’d say that speaks volume about their desire to try to stay in Arizona. It’s a big city. It only makes sense for them to try and stay there, especially after Thrashers had to leave Atlanta.

Bettman didn’t “punish” or “beat up” anyone. Other owners did.

The notion that Bettman is all powerful deity is just tiring.

 

[Ciao]

At first it was an issue of control since Balsillie wanted to move the team in contravention of league rules. Then there was the whole issue of setting a precedent of abandoning a city so soon after they built an arena which would have complicated the arena negotiations going on at the time. However there really isn't much to indicate that owners really felt strongly about the Phoenix market itself.

As far as being his boss ask Moyes or ASG how it worked out for them. They were his bosses too but he was more than happy to take them out back and beat them up when they stepped out of line.

As far as loyalty goes, the NHL extorted Glendale before abandoning it so soon after it built an arena.

It would have been better if the NHL had just said "Thank you for all you've done," and then left, instead of kicking Glendale in the nuts a few times before leaving.

 

[aqib]

As far as loyalty goes, the NHL extorted Glendale before abandoning it so soon after it built an arena.

It would have been better if the NHL had just said "Thank you for all you've done," and then left, instead of kicking Glendale in the nuts a few times before leaving.

Well it was Glendale's choice to pay $25 million twice. When they first went into bankruptcy Bettman repeatedly said they "don't run out on cities", also there were a number of teams in various stages of seeking new or renovated arenas. If the Coyotes left an arena vacant only 6-7 years after it was built it would be a talking point for arena opponents all over North America. In Edmonton's arena deal, the NHL had to co-sign the lease guaranteeing there would be an NHL team in the arena for 35 years.

They could have easily sold the team to someone else other than Balsillie and get them out. They didn’t. I’d say that speaks volume about their desire to try to stay in Arizona. It’s a big city. It only makes sense for them to try and stay there, especially after Thrashers had to leave Atlanta.

Bettman didn’t “punish” or “beat up” anyone. Other owners did.

The notion that Bettman is all powerful deity is just tiring.

Again, I don't think preserving Arizona was a top of mind priority for league owners. Also the Arizona bankruptcy pre-dates the Atlanta move by two years.

The $60 million relocation fee for the Thrashers was Bettman's idea. It was basically a fine for ASG.

 

[Llama19]

Scottsdale 101 shopping center land set for auction to highest bidder

To quote:

"The Arizona Land Department published an auction notice on March 21 that the 75 acres on the southwest corner of Scottsdale Road and the Loop 101, home to the Scottsdale 101 center, will be up for auction on June 4.

The Scottsdale 101 property is on the other side of the freeway of another state land parcel that will be going up for auction later this year.

In early March, the state land department Board of Appeals approved moving forward with a land auction of 110 acres of currently vacant land on the north side of the Loop 101, west of Scottsdale Road. Alex Meruelo, the owner of the Arizona Coyotes, has indicated that he will acquire the land to build a permanent arena for the NHL franchise.

The Scottsdale 101 auction and the auction for the land the Coyotes are eyeing are not related, Córdova told the Business Journal."

Source (Paywall): www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2024/04/02/scottsdale-101-shopping-center-heads-for-auction.html

 

[awfulwaffle]

Scottsdale 101 shopping center land set for auction to highest bidder

To quote:

"The Arizona Land Department published an auction notice on March 21 that the 75 acres on the southwest corner of Scottsdale Road and the Loop 101, home to the Scottsdale 101 center, will be up for auction on June 4.

The Scottsdale 101 property is on the other side of the freeway of another state land parcel that will be going up for auction later this year.

In early March, the state land department Board of Appeals approved moving forward with a land auction of 110 acres of currently vacant land on the north side of the Loop 101, west of Scottsdale Road. Alex Meruelo, the owner of the Arizona Coyotes, has indicated that he will acquire the land to build a permanent arena for the NHL franchise.

The Scottsdale 101 auction and the auction for the land the Coyotes are eyeing are not related, Córdova told the Business Journal."

Source (Paywall): www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2024/04/02/scottsdale-101-shopping-center-heads-for-auction.html

? This isn't the parcel the Coyotes are going for?

 

[TheLegend]

? This isn't the parcel the Coyotes are going for?

No.... it isn't. Opposite side of the Loop 101.

YAM Properties (ie Bob Parsons, current owner of Westgate) put the application in. YAM has a lease on the site (yes.... you CAN lease state land) and could be looking to buy it outright.

 

[oldunclehue]

No.... it isn't. Opposite side of the Loop 101.

YAM Properties (ie Bob Parsons, current owner of Westgate) put the application in. YAM has a lease on the site (yes.... you CAN lease state land) and could be looking to buy it outright.

Some investors/business folk trying to get land nearby to join in on the potential success in the area after rink etc is built?

Any news on potential other bidders for the land? Any ideas or rumours of what it could cost now that its officially going for auction?

 

[TheLegend]

Some investors/business folk trying to get land nearby to join in on the potential success in the area after rink etc is built?

Any news on potential other bidders for the land? Any ideas or rumours of what it could cost now that its officially going for auction?

Nothing yet. Everyone is just waiting for the notice to be listed and since we’re dealing with two government entities you can pretty much guess what that means.

 

[awfulwaffle]

Some investors/business folk trying to get land nearby to join in on the potential success in the area after rink etc is built?

Any news on potential other bidders for the land? Any ideas or rumours of what it could cost now that its officially going for auction?

Wouldn't this have been prior to the Coyotes looking to buy land? Don't really think there's any correlation between the Coyotes and this auction.

 

[GreenHornet]

Nothing yet. Everyone is just waiting for the notice to be listed and since we’re dealing with two government entities you can pretty much guess what that means.

Two weeks, then? *Ducking flying objects* I'll see myself out.

 

[oldunclehue]

Nothing yet. Everyone is just waiting for the notice to be listed and since we’re dealing with two government entities you can pretty much guess what that means.

Yup, nothing moves quick or smoothly. I'm curious if their will be other bidders. Is the area/location a hot market and lots of developers want in on land there or ?

 

[TheLegend]

Yup, nothing moves quick or smoothly. I'm curious if their will be other bidders. Is the area/location a hot market and lots of developers want in on land there or ?

Just drove by that area yesterday. Even though it's grown some from my last visit, there's quite of a bit of untapped acreage in that area.

 

[PredsHead]

Coyotes owner Alex Meruelo has sought potential buyers

Arizona Coyotes owner Alex Meruelo has spoken to multiple potential buyers — who are in the state and outside of it — to gauge their interest in purchasing the NHL franchise from him, Arizona Sports’ John Gambadoro reports.

Meruelo reportedly was seeking upward of $1 billion for the franchise that he bought in July 2019. The Coyotes owner had a recent meeting with NHL commissioner Gary Bettman regarding the team’s future, Gambadoro adds.



“Mr. Meruelo and the team are solely focused on the land auction and winning the bid. And to keep the Coyotes in Arizona,” the Coyotes told Arizona Sports on Thursday when asked about potential conversations Meruelo had with possible buyers.

 

[TheLegend]

Coyotes owner Alex Meruelo has sought potential buyers

There's nothing surprising in this article. At least nothing anyone here locally who follows things closely wouldn't already know. Can't speak for those living outside the area who get their info off the internet.

Dave Pagnotta reported not long ago the Smith group offered $1 billion for the franchise and was turned down.

Craig Morgan reported weeks before that there were two to three groups locally who were interested IF Meruelo wanted out..... not including Suns owner Matt Ishiba.

Arizona Sports (Bonneville) is the broadcasting partner of the Coyotes, so I can't see them risking that over making up a story like this without some substance to it, but it's obvious a lot of things going on we still are in the dark over.

 

[gstommylee]

 

[TheLegend]

Actual segment ….. says a LOT more than the article.

Gambo is stuttering all through this but there’s nothing here I haven’t heard already.

Coyotes owner Alex Meruelo has sought potential buyers

Arizona Coyotes owner Alex Meruelo has spoken to potential owners to gauge their interest in buying the team, John Gambadoro reports.

arizonasports.com

 

[GKJ]

Think I need a corroborating source here. We know he doesn’t need to look far if he’s trying to sell.