CXL - UPDATE 12/9 - Coyotes settle bills after unpaid taxes come to light

[hockeyguy0022]

I personally think Bettman is keeping in his pocket for Quebec for Ottawa/Florida/Carolina IMO..

I think they really really really don't want to mess up alignment, so your choices are Houston, KC, and super long shots after that...

 

[93LEAFS]

I personally think Bettman is keeping in his pocket for Quebec for Ottawa/Florida/Carolina IMO..

I think they really really really don't want to mess up alignment, so your choices are Houston, KC, and super long shots after that...

The NHL isn't giving up on a huge American market (population-wise) like South Florida or Phoenix to move to QC, unless their hand is absolutely forced like the Atlanta/Winnipeg one. Trying to break through in the major American cities is clearly their long-term goal. How many viewers does a team in QC add tv wise (the big goal of growth) compared to actually siphoning viewers from Habs and other games?

 

[oldunclehue]

The NHL isn't giving up on a huge American market (population-wise) like South Florida or Phoenix to move to QC, unless their hand is absolutely forced like the Atlanta/Winnipeg one. Trying to break through in the major American cities is clearly their long-term goal. How many viewers does a team in QC add tv wise (the big goal of growth) compared to actually siphoning viewers from Habs and other games?

I'd be interested to see how much money the Coyotes have costed the NHL over the years....I wonder if that info is even available.

Years of revenue sharing etc etc....makes no sense if your an owner, why would they want to keep the team there.

Move it to Houston ASAP and try somewhere new. Seems like the best bet.

 

[93LEAFS]

I'd be interested to see how much money the Coyotes have costed the NHL over the years....I wonder if that info is even available.

Years of revenue sharing etc etc....makes no sense if your an owner, why would they want to keep the team there.

Move it to Houston ASAP and try somewhere new. Seems like the best bet.

I can see them swapping for Houston. I can't see them doing it for QC. I don't think the league likes the idea of not being in 3 of the 11 biggest MSA's in the States.

 

[oldunclehue]

I can see them swapping for Houston. I can't see them doing it for QC. I don't think the league likes the idea of not being in 3 of the 11 biggest MSA's in the States.

QC won't get a team back IMO, its really not a city the NHL wants to be in. The ownership there has expressed interest in a team for over a decade, I'm sure they've tried behind the scenes to make something out of it. But it's just not something the NHL wants IMO.

The NHL knows TV ratings are the future of money in the sport, and its not a good plan to move in to small Canadian cities for TV revenue. Big US cities are where they want/need to be.

Its just trying to find ownership willing to pay the fee, have a rink and a city that will go crazy for hockey. Will Houston? That I don't know, not sure how good their fanbase will be there, anyone know?

 

[93LEAFS]

QC won't get a team back IMO, its really not a city the NHL wants to be in. The ownership there has expressed interest in a team for over a decade, I'm sure they've tried behind the scenes to make something out of it. But it's just not something the NHL wants IMO.

The NHL knows TV ratings are the future of money in the sport, and its not a good plan to move in to small Canadian cities for TV revenue. Big US cities are where they want/need to be.

Its just trying to find ownership willing to pay the fee, have a rink and a city that will go crazy for hockey. Will Houston? That I don't know, not sure how good their fanbase will be there, anyone know?

I'd expect them to be like Dallas. Unlikely to be a heavyweight revenue-wise like the big O6 teams, but rarely in trouble and when the team is playing well they will draw good money.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

I personally think Bettman is keeping in his pocket for Quebec for Ottawa/Florida/Carolina IMO..

I think they really really really don't want to mess up alignment, so your choices are Houston, KC, and super long shots after that...

Why do people keep bringing up Carolina? They seem to be doing ok.

 

[OG6ix]

Why do people keep bringing up Carolina? They seem to be doing ok.

There is not much to do in Quebec. You have to remember that people start to imagine things there out of boredom.

 

[TheLegend]

Why do people keep bringing up Carolina? They seem to be doing ok.

Some people still don’t believe Tom Dunden is serious about staying put.

 

[joelef]

QC won't get a team back IMO, its really not a city the NHL wants to be in. The ownership there has expressed interest in a team for over a decade, I'm sure they've tried behind the scenes to make something out of it. But it's just not something the NHL wants IMO.

The NHL knows TV ratings are the future of money in the sport, and its not a good plan to move in to small Canadian cities for TV revenue. Big US cities are where they want/need to be.

Its just trying to find ownership willing to pay the fee, have a rink and a city that will go crazy for hockey. Will Houston? That I don't know, not sure how good their fanbase will be there, anyone know?

Houston is a fast growing city

 

[aqib]

NHL isn;t going to SLC. Have you seen Jazz's arena in hockey config? Its WORSE than Barclays.

Didn't they have the 02 Olympic hockey games there? I know that was 20 years ago. Did they renovate it to make it less hockey friendly?

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Didn't they have the 02 Olympic hockey games there? I know that was 20 years ago. Did they renovate it to make it less hockey friendly?

It was always bad.

 

[MNNumbers]

Let's say that, in whatever fashion it happens, that Tempe gets approved. (We all have our opinions about it, and about how Tempe should approach things, but, however, just assume......)

It appears that such news won't come quickly.

Would anyone think there is a possibility that they play at Chase for one year only, while they consider the idea of renovating VMC for 3-4 more years?

I ask this because playing at Chase requires avoiding conflicts with the D-Backs, and, while I would be comfortable with the assumption of no Coyote postseason next year, I wouldn't, if I were the team, want to assume that 'We won't need a rink in late April and May for several years."

Thoughts?

 

[Melrose Munch]

Some people still don’t believe Tom Dunden is serious about staying put.

Probably because he blew up a football league...

 

[OG6ix]

Probably because he blew up a football league...

That league was not gonna get grounded at some point anyway.

 

[cutchemist42]

Houston is a fast growing city

And I don't understand. One of Americas worst "big" cities. Horribly planned with ugly zoning and and a dreadful downtown.

 

[Headshot77]

The NHL isn't giving up on a huge American market (population-wise) like South Florida or Phoenix to move to QC, unless their hand is absolutely forced like the Atlanta/Winnipeg one. Trying to break through in the major American cities is clearly their long-term goal. How many viewers does a team in QC add tv wise (the big goal of growth) compared to actually siphoning viewers from Habs and other games?

It really doesn't matter how big the population is if they don't care about hockey, period. For a myriad of reasons, Arizona largely hasn't worked. That's not to say I don't believe it couldn't ever work, and I feel the same way about Atlanta. They are both markets that were doomed by shortsighted owners. Bringing a new sport to a city requires perfect execution. The NHL got that in Nashville and Vegas right out of the gate. Carolina and the Florida teams got it eventually.

Anyway, Arizona is probably going to be shoehorned into Houston. And after that, I don't foresee ANY team relocating for another 50ish years. It's too devastating for franchise values. The Panthers will relocate at whatever inevitable point the city of Miami becomes uninhabitable due to sea level rise. So, hopefully for Quebec they have a shiny arena in 2100 because that's their chance I guess.

 

[JimAnchower]

Didn't they have the 02 Olympic hockey games there? I know that was 20 years ago. Did they renovate it to make it less hockey friendly?

No, the hockey tournament was hosted at where the Utah Grizzlies play now, the Maverik Center, and where BYU plays club hockey, Peaks Ice Center. The then Delta Center hosted figure skating and short track speedskating.

 

[OG6ix]

It really doesn't matter how big the population is if they don't care about hockey, period. For a myriad of reasons, Arizona largely hasn't worked. That's not to say I don't believe it couldn't ever work, and I feel the same way about Atlanta. They are both markets that were doomed by shortsighted owners. Bringing a new sport to a city requires perfect execution. The NHL got that in Nashville and Vegas right out of the gate. Carolina and the Florida teams got it eventually.

Anyway, Arizona is probably going to be shoehorned into Houston. And after that, I don't foresee ANY team relocating for another 50ish years. It's too devastating for franchise values. The Panthers will relocate at whatever inevitable point the city of Miami becomes uninhabitable due to sea level rise. So, hopefully for Quebec they have a shiny arena in 2100 because that's their chance I guess.

Its been tough in Phoenix - never really had decent ownership save for maybe Jerry Colangelo originally. No suitable arena from the get go. Worst of all limited on Ice success. I don't know many markets that can handle all three issues.

 

[TheLegend]

Probably because he blew up a football league...

He didn’t blow it up. He kept it afloat until he realized it was going to implode anyway.

 

[Djp]

QC won't get a team back IMO, its really not a city the NHL wants to be in. The ownership there has expressed interest in a team for over a decade, I'm sure they've tried behind the scenes to make something out of it. But it's just not something the NHL wants IMO.

The NHL knows TV ratings are the future of money in the sport, and its not a good plan to move in to small Canadian cities for TV revenue. Big US cities are where they want/need to be.

Its just trying to find ownership willing to pay the fee, have a rink and a city that will go crazy for hockey. Will Houston? That I don't know, not sure how good their fanbase will be there, anyone know?

Both Houston and Phoenix have many transplants from the Great Lakes and northeast. There is hockey fans. Is there enough to support a bad team when there are other sports in that market. See what happened in Atlanta.

a place like Kansas City that doesn’t have winter NBA competition might do better.

 

[MNNumbers]

Kansas City is not even in the discussion. Why?

Because the arena there is the T-Mobile Center, and it is a very busy arena already. The economics of sports are such that very few markets are able to support teams on the money from tickets and game night concessions alone. Most markets require arena management rights, so that the team gets some $$ from every thing that happens in the arena.

Because T-Mobile in Kansas City is so busy already, the city, who manages the place themselves, have no need to offer a sports team such a deal, in which the team gets the $$ benefit from arena management. That means that a new "Scouts" would have to survive on game night revenues alone, and that isn't possible.

This is the reason that Lamar Hunt didn't even make an application in 2015, when the expansion fee was $500M.

 

[Digital Kid]

If the prospective Houston Aeros don't have an arena, and Kansas City isn't feasible, let alone Portland or SLC or San Diego or wherever, and Quebec is not an option (I believe it should be) then it would seem the Gila River Arena would "welcome" the Coyotes back at a much higher rent? Making the losses likely even higher.

This is so 'If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging' that it boggles my mind.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

And I don't understand. One of Americas worst "big" cities. Horribly planned with ugly zoning and and a dreadful downtown.

I'd like to say this is hate out of Canadian nationalist sentiment but I can;t disagree. It is a terrible planned city,

But you know, jobs. Texas is growing rapidly.

 

[gstommylee]

If the prospective Houston Aeros don't have an arena, and Kansis City isn't feasible, let alone Portland or SLC or San Diego or wherever, and Quebec is not an option (I believe it should be) then it would seem the Gila River Arena would "welcome" the Coyotes back at a much higher rent? Making the losses likely even higher.

This is so 'If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging' that it boggles my mind.

If Yotes move to the Houston they'll play at Toyota Center end of discussion enough of the what ifs they don't have an arena. So can we just drop the whole oh the team is gonna move for the time being right now they aren't going anywhere.

If the team does end up moving to houston it won't be for 650m+ to purchase and relocate. The league will make it look like it went for 650m for a team in house but in reality it won't.

And what make you think Portland isn't feasible. The NHL was one paul Allen (back when he was alive) saying "yes i want a team here and here's the check" from one happening imo. Don't write Portland as a possibility.