CWHL to discontinue operations

[NCRanger]

Lets be real. Women's hockey won't EVER succeed no matter what happens and other than it being a place to give more talented female hockey players a league and teams to play on, there really isn't a point to a women's league when the NHL itself isn't the most popular sport in alot of places in the US.

There's only a finite amount of time and money to go around for sports and there are plenty of other male sports that don't get much attention and if they can't get any traction then what hope do female sports have in becoming popular and profitable outside of a couple of exceptions like tennis and golf?

If female sports could succeed it would've done so a long time ago like as stated women's tennis and to a lesser extent women's golf has. Outside of those two exceptions and maybe a couple of others, there's little hope that the majority of any other female sports will ever become successful and profitable. And really this is a result of the majority of girls and women not being interested enough in sports to support female athletes and teams and those that are interested in sports will usually follow and watch men's sports anyways.

Women make up half the population of most countries and women's sports are mostly very affordable to go to so if women really wanted to support female sports they could and female sports could succeed, but that isn't the case and women's sports have to rely on men to support them which as we've clearly seen most men don't have any interest in doing so and its why its pretty pointless to try and create and keep alive a product that much like the WNBA very few people have interest in and that includes women.

Politically incorrect, but unfortunately, you are not wrong.

Outside of the two sports you mention, about the only other sport that is watched and followed is women's soccer. And that is mostly at the National Team level. Maybe it's because they're successful on the field? Maybe it's because the skill level is pretty high, and it's not that much of a different game? I don't know. But I'll watch as many WNT games as much as MNT games. I've gone to a World Cup match in Canada, and went to a recent qualifying match. That said, I don't think I've ever cared to attend/watch a women's pro league game. Maybe if we lived in Raleigh instead of Charlotte, my daughter might want to go see the NC Courage play...

As for basketball, my daughter plays, as well as soccer. She has some passing interest in college games, but doesn't care one bit about the WNBA. Neither do I. I will watch an occasional women's college game though.

 

[Burke the Legend]

I don't get it. The CWHL was always trying to be more pragmatic and realistic than the NWHL, they were more "semi-pro". They didn't pay salaries even when the NWHL was getting into big financial problems because it did and everything seemed steady for the CWHL.

Then those two Chinese teams joined the league and shortly after they started paying salaries. I guess the Chinese really threw some nice money into the pot in order to train up their women's team for the Olympics for the CWHL to immediately change directions. Now suddenly the league is folding? Did the Chinese cheques bounce?? I can only imagine it was some big payment that didn't come through leaving them with a massive financial hole in their balance sheet and bills coming due for it to happen this quickly.

 

[LadyStanley]

Paywall. The Athletic's take

 

[Burke the Legend]

Well linking paywall articles isn't very helpful.

Do they give a reason for their sudden financial collapse or does nobody know yet?

 

[choirboy]

Well linking paywall articles isn't very helpful.

Do they give a reason for their sudden financial collapse or does nobody know yet?

My guess is once they started paying the players this past year it was the fatal doom. Frankly the league just doesn’t generate enough revenue for a payroll. Simple a state of demand. There is no desire for it from the paying consumer.

Especially when in most cities there are probably 15-20 other hockey teams which are definitively better hockey options to pay and watch. (Pro nhl team, CHL, Junior A, Junior B, CIS, College hockey and even AAA midget)

 

[Burke the Legend]

My guess is once they started paying the players this past year it was the fatal doom. Frankly the league just doesn’t generate enough revenue for a payroll. Simple a state of demand. There is no desire for it from the paying consumer.

Especially when in most cities there are probably 15-20 other hockey teams which are definitively better hockey options to pay and watch. (Pro nhl team, CHL, Junior A, Junior B, CIS, College hockey and even AAA midget)

Yeah but you have to assume they would have done a budget where when they decided to pay people they had some revenues on paper to cover the new hundreds of thousands (millions?) of dollars of salary obligations??

 

[choirboy]

Yeah but you have to assume they would have done a budget where when they decided to pay people they had some revenues on paper to cover the new hundreds of thousands (millions?) of dollars of salary obligations??

Agreed, a budget probably was done. However it’s probably safe to say the forecasted attendance was way off. Rather than thousands of fans perhaps most teams were lucky to get a couple hundred. Most of it probably family and friends attending? I don’t know what the numbers were as I never did attend a game, so have no experience on the crowds.

Yes it is too bad the league folded but if there is no demand and not financially feasible, what can one do. It’s not up to the NHL to swoop in and fix a losing business. Unfortunate but a reality of a sport which is just not something the public cares to pay for and attend.

 

[joestevens29]

6 team league with one team in Western Canada, United states and China. One of which had direct competition from the other pro league.

Setup to fail when you are that far spread out in a sport(womens) that has yet to really have any success anywhere at a pro level

 

[SotasicA]

Agreed, a budget probably was done. However it’s probably safe to say the forecasted attendance was way off. Rather than thousands of fans perhaps most teams were lucky to get a couple hundred. Most of it probably family and friends attending? I don’t know what the numbers were as I never did attend a game, so have no experience on the crowds.

Yes it is too bad the league folded but if there is no demand and not financially feasible, what can one do. It’s not up to the NHL to swoop in and fix a losing business. Unfortunate but a reality of a sport which is just not something the public cares to pay for and attend.

I think ~100 people per game is close to truth. Tickets are cheap as well, so there's no way you can ever cover travel costs with that. If it takes $5,000 to fly and accomodate a team on a road game, you need to probably have like 4 times as many people show up. And those people need to pay $15 each.

And that's without any salary.

 

[choirboy]

I think ~100 people per game is close to truth. Tickets are cheap as well, so there's no way you can ever cover travel costs with that. If it takes $5,000 to fly and accomodate a team on a road game, you need to probably have like 4 times as many people show up. And those people need to pay $15 each.

And that's without any salary.

Exactly this. Even at 15 dollars, that is too much. Especially when for less than that, one could go watch better hockey, ie junior A or B game. Heck, a midget AAA game is usually between 7-10 bucks max, and is much better hockey overall.

Even if it was 5 dollars I just can’t see many people attending when you have a multitude of better hockey options to watch.

Again, it’s unfortunate, however it’s reality. It’s not a good business to be in.

 

[Huck Cheever]

If I was an NHL team owner Id be stoked to lose millions so we can have a league with little interest.

 

[Bixby Snyder]

I won't miss it.

 

[HandshakeLineRespect]

Why would the NHL take over a league that makes no money and actually loses it. There is also the rats nest that is the current political climate when it comes to the faux gender pay gap. How long before you hear them claim gender discrimination and that the league is part of the tyrannical patriarchy if they don’t get the exact same benefits of the men’s league?

 

[Pilky01]

NHL should put their money where their mouth is and fund and operate a parallel women’s league.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

If I was an NHL team owner Id be stoked to lose millions so we can have a league with little interest.

Or possibly tap in to segment of society that may not watch hockey?

 

[TheBeastCoast]

NHL should put their money where their mouth is and fund and operate a parallel women’s league.

The NHL's mouth has basically always been that they will try to start one when the other leagues are out of the way. Still isn't the case.

 

[Pilky01]

The NHL's mouth has basically always been that they will try to start one when the other leagues are out of the way. Still isn't the case.

That’s a pure cop out by the league.

No other group of people or companies on earth are better equipped from an infrastructure and logistics perspective to run a successful hockey league than the NHL and it’s member owners.

The reason they don’t do it is because it’s cheaper to invite a couple chicks to hang out at the All Star Game and run a feel good ad campaign than it is to actually make an investment and give women a place to play organized club hockey at the highest possible level.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

That’s a pure cop out by the league.

No other group of people or companies on earth are better equipped from an infrastructure and logistics perspective to run a successful hockey league than the NHL and it’s member owners.

The reason they don’t do it is because it’s cheaper to invite a couple chicks to hang out at the All Star Game and run a feel good ad campaign than it is to actually make an investment and give women a place to play organized club hockey at the highest possible level.

Yeah I mean I'm not saying I agree with it but the NHL has seemingly made it pretty clear they have zero intention on buying out the current league or competing with the current league so that leaves them to just kind of fend for themselves.

 

[epo]

Or possibly tap in to segment of society that may not watch hockey?

NHL viewership is somewhere between 33% and 40% female, so they like watching hockey, and yet almost nobody watches either of these leagues. If they can't get existing hockey fans to watch, they won't get non-hockey fans to watch and be converted in any significant number.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

NHL viewership is somewhere between 33% and 40% female, so they like watching hockey, and yet almost nobody watches either of these leagues. If they can't get existing hockey fans to watch, they won't get non-hockey fans to watch and be converted in any significant number.

So the task is to get the existing fans to watch?

 

[BattleBorn]

NHL should put their money where their mouth is and fund and operate a parallel women’s league.

I guess the correct question is: Why?

Why would the NHL, which is a non-gender specific league set up a gender specific league in today's climate only to eventually get bombarded with gender pay disparity questions when any woman qualified to play in the NHL could do so?

There's no league bylaw that limits the league to one gender. If a female can perform at a level that would allow them to bring a benefit to the team that drafts them, there's nothing that stops them from playing in the NHL.

The dirty secret is that the NHL is a women's league that also happens to allow men and the admission is based on performance.

While that may not work well in today's climate, and it's good that the climate actually is pretty much open to the idea that a woman would belong in the league, which is a win for whatever battle is being fought. However, the fact remains that the only reason there's not a woman playing in the NHL is because there isn't a woman good enough to play in the NHL. We can discuss the old boys club later, but if there was a woman that was better than the worst player signed to an NHL contract, there's nothing in the rules stopping a team from signing them other than the politics, and a strong women's league won't change those.

 

[CpatainCanuck]

That’s a pure cop out by the league.

No other group of people or companies on earth are better equipped from an infrastructure and logistics perspective to run a successful hockey league than the NHL and it’s member owners.

The reason they don’t do it is because it’s cheaper to invite a couple chicks to hang out at the All Star Game and run a feel good ad campaign than it is to actually make an investment and give women a place to play organized club hockey at the highest possible level.

Are you suggesting that NHL owners provide their 20,000 seat arenas for a women's hockey league? I doubt even the women players would want to play to an arena that's 95% empty.

 

[powerstuck]

Exactly this. Even at 15 dollars, that is too much. Especially when for less than that, one could go watch better hockey, ie junior A or B game. Heck, a midget AAA game is usually between 7-10 bucks max, and is much better hockey overall.

Even if it was 5 dollars I just can’t see many people attending when you have a multitude of better hockey options to watch.

Again, it’s unfortunate, however it’s reality. It’s not a good business to be in.

This year, in the Q you could see future NHLers play for 18$ a game (regular price), that's about 13$ (season price) per game.

 

[smitty10]

That’s a pure cop out by the league.

No other group of people or companies on earth are better equipped from an infrastructure and logistics perspective to run a successful hockey league than the NHL and it’s member owners.

The reason they don’t do it is because it’s cheaper to invite a couple chicks to hang out at the All Star Game and run a feel good ad campaign than it is to actually make an investment and give women a place to play organized club hockey at the highest possible level.

Why is it the NHL's responsibility, as a privately owned business, to spend millions of dollars on a league that would show massive losses and open them up to all sorts of liability? This league would be a ticking time bomb for the NHL. Take the USA Women's National Soccer Team now demanding equal pay for example. Their CBA dictates they take something like 35% of their revenue for their compensation, while the men's team takes something like 8%, yet the men make more money than the women. Now they expect the men's federation to share their revenue with them in order to fulfill their salary demands.

The NHL creating a women's league would have a very similar outcome after a period of time. These women would see the amount of money NHLers are making in comparison to them and demand equal compensation (without basis), creating negative publicity for the NHL. Not to mention that women are fully allowed to play in the NHL if they are good enough. Professional sports isn't about 'feel good moments'. It's about entertainment value for the fans. Fans are engaged and willing to watch the best players in the world at their sport, which they get with the NHL. People don't pay to watch junior B hockey. They certainly wouldn't they pay to watch a lesser calibre league than that.

So why on Earth would the NHL want to create a women's league?

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

This year, in the Q you could see future NHLers play for 18$ a game (regular price), that's about 13$ (season price) per game.

same/slightly better hockey around here with NCAA hockey (Hockey East) is roughly the same.

season tickets to BC hockey range from $15 to $7 per game...BU from $20 to $10 per game. Plus those come with other incentives like parking passes and concessions discounts.

while getting to see players like Makar, Hughes, McAvoy, Eichel, etc