CWHL to discontinue operations

Voight

#winning
Feb 8, 2012
40,368
16,647
Mulberry Street
NHL/Bettman haven't done much to help either league. They gave $50,000 each year to each league, and while the full 100 K will go to the NWHL, its still not that great. A lot of people online were pissed because they give the CHL much more (which is fine, because thats where most of the players come from)

Its not the NHL or Bettmans responsibility to fund a womens league but if they really want to "grow the game" why not open the coffers and give a little more? :dunno:

Should have never been 2 leagues in the first place tho.
 
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Garyboy

Registered User
Oct 31, 2010
2,193
227
Toronto
This really is the definition of a lost cause. When your pro league is on par with Bantam hockey, you’re not watching potential NHL’ers of the future, no hitting, wearing cages/full visors that make it look like minor hockey......friends and family in the stands.
 

BattleBorn

50% to winning as many division titles as Toronto
Feb 6, 2015
12,069
6,017
Bellevue, WA
I wonder if there's an appetite for a player-owned setup for the league where revenues would get split 50/50 like the NHL. Franchise ownership/league pays for coaching, rent, equipment, etc. out of their 50% and players split the other 50% of revenue in salary minus the transportation. In return, the players would own x% of the league franchise operation on a non-voting basis.

It might make for a cut in compensation short term, but it would allow the players to participate in the growth of the league. Once/if the league is stable, they could solidify the player portion of ownership and buy player-owners out of their shares and go from there as a league. If the players think the league is potentially viable, it might be a great deal in the long run.
 

HugoSimon

Registered User
Jan 25, 2013
959
263
Do you mean compete with the ECHL in terms of attendance/viewership or quality of play/talent, cause if its the latter, the womens game will never be on that level, no matter what price you put towards the game for development. Its safe to say the game will never be on the same level as junior B(quality wise), let alone any mens professional hockey.

Look at the WNBA, which has lots of funding comparatively speaking from the NBA and high school boys teams would still beat the best WNBA team.

In terms of general relevance to families and such who are putting their kids in hockey.

I.e. a parent would be equally pleased with a daughter in the womans league in the way a parent would be with a son in the ECHL.
 

yukoner88

Registered User
Dec 16, 2009
19,626
23,587
Dawson City, YT


Paywall.

Cant think it's good for teams, league to have boycotts.


Tried to read but the article is mostly blocked out cause they want me to download their app (and I don't want to).

Was able to read up to an overtime goal being disallowed and the USA winning the shoot out .the rest is blocked.

What did the 2nd half say?
 

LeHab

Registered User
Aug 31, 2005
15,956
6,259
I wonder if there's an appetite for a player-owned setup for the league where revenues would get split 50/50 like the NHL. Franchise ownership/league pays for coaching, rent, equipment, etc. out of their 50% and players split the other 50% of revenue in salary minus the transportation. In return, the players would own x% of the league franchise operation on a non-voting basis.

It might make for a cut in compensation short term, but it would allow the players to participate in the growth of the league. Once/if the league is stable, they could solidify the player portion of ownership and buy player-owners out of their shares and go from there as a league. If the players think the league is potentially viable, it might be a great deal in the long run.

If you look at CWHL, there were 6 teams with a 100K salary cap each. League revenues were reported to be $3.7M. Overhead required to promote and run the league would make 50/50 split not very realistic. Even if you want to compensate via shares in lieu of cash, that would probably dilute too much current investors.
 

Brodie

the dream of the 90s is alive in Detroit
Mar 19, 2009
15,399
359
Chicago
NHL/Bettman haven't done much to help either league. They gave $50,000 each year to each league, and while the full 100 K will go to the NWHL, its still not that great. A lot of people online were pissed because they give the CHL much more (which is fine, because thats where most of the players come from)

Its not the NHL or Bettmans responsibility to fund a womens league but if they really want to "grow the game" why not open the coffers and give a little more? :dunno:

Should have never been 2 leagues in the first place tho.

Yep. The only reason that the WNBA still exists is that the NBA involved itself deeply and was willing to do what it took to make the league work. It's not exactly revelatory to claim that there isn't a huge amount of interest in women's professional sports, but there is a niche for it. The question is just finding someone with deep enough pockets and the desire to cultivate that niche... the NHL would need to step up to make that happen.

Considering the low operating income, I don't see a reason why the NHL couldn't invest heavily into the NWHL, partner the teams with NHL teams, and ask NBC to televise the games on the Olympic Sports Network. The league would only need a rights fee of a few hundred thousand dollars in order to break even.
 

Burke the Legend

Registered User
Feb 22, 2012
8,317
2,850
Considering the low operating income, I don't see a reason why the NHL couldn't invest heavily into the NWHL, partner the teams with NHL teams, and ask NBC to televise the games on the Olympic Sports Network. The league would only need a rights fee of a few hundred thousand dollars in order to break even.

Because NHL/NBC don't want to throw away lots of money on a crummy, low impact way to promote the game?
 
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masa2009

Registered User
May 11, 2011
229
15
I think the NHL would like women's hockey to progress, but they sincerely doubt that it will ever become viable.
And there is good reason for that. Women's sports fans tend to have much personal connections to the game than average.
Often you have LGBT people who find comfort in women assuming a non-traditional gender role, fathers of girls who play the sport, very politically invested people...
Unfortunately this kind of niche audience will be even more limited in an equipment-heavy sport like hockey. Fewer players, fewer female players, fewer people who gravitate around these female players and might spend on women's hockey as a spectator sport.

The problem is, once you have endorsed a women's league, social pressure to keep it going will be strong, especially among media types who lean very liberal. There is no turning back.
Even if the NHL sponsored it for a good 10-12 years, gave it a fair shot, and it only made sporadic advances wholly unsufficient to make it viable, they would still get a excoriated by the HuffPost/Vox Media crowd for pulling the plug, and probably beyond that to be honest.

I think they are afraid of getting involved because they know they would be paralyzed by fears of bad PR if they ever needed to get out.
 
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Brodie

the dream of the 90s is alive in Detroit
Mar 19, 2009
15,399
359
Chicago
You guys act like the NHL would be bled dry by sponsoring a woman's league. Nearly a third of the teams in the league bleed more cash than any small scale women's league ever could.

The NHL doesn't do it because they don't see an upside, but that's because the league's fanbase tends to be much more politically conservative than the NBA's and threfore they wouldn't get any plaudits for doing it.
 

masa2009

Registered User
May 11, 2011
229
15
Well, the most recent figure I found is $12 million a year in losses for the WNBA, and it's been going for nearly a quarter century, so it's starting to add up and there is no end in sight. And that's with women's bball having far more players and far more visibility at the college level, rosters being more compact, equipment costs presumably being much less, and the NBA having the pull to get them a TV deal the WNHL probably wouldn't get.
 

LeHab

Registered User
Aug 31, 2005
15,956
6,259
I'm sorry, but this just reeks of a charity case. Taking Private donations, and bailout money is something that tells me the business case for this league is not manageable

CWHL Board has posted a final open letter:

http://www.thecwhl.com/CWHL_Final_Public_Communication July_2_2019_FINAL_630pm.pdf

We learn among others things CWHL had a non-profit status in order to qualify as Registered Canadian Amateur Athletic Association to benefit from Hockey Canada Insurance and I assume tax advantages. This status was problematic for a potential merger with NWHL which is for-profit.

After folding, two offers were put forward to purchase the league for $20 (yeah $20 there is no K or M missing there) without taking on liabilities. Ultimately league auctioned assets for $93 000 which went to pay players, staff and creditors. We don't know how much in total debt the league was carrying but we know "donors" helped pay for $230 000 of outstanding bonuses.

To run the league Professionally, around $10M would be required. For 2017-18 expenses were 4.2M (why not provide numbers for last season?). A lot of other interesting info is included.

Not long ago one of major sponsors Graeme Roustan was openly very critical of the Board financial management which led him to cut ties. This is not addressed in this letter nor is he thanked for past support.

[edit] Just did a quick search on CRA for Registered Canadian Amateur Athletic Association and they are eligible to issue donation receipts which effectively made them a "charity".

Canadian amateur athletic associations - Canada.ca
 
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abo9

Registered User
Jun 25, 2017
9,082
7,176
This really is the definition of a lost cause. When your pro league is on par with Bantam hockey, you’re not watching potential NHL’ers of the future, no hitting, wearing cages/full visors that make it look like minor hockey......friends and family in the stands.

... I have no problem with them wearing cages... as they don't live from hockey, why put your face on the line? Not saying no cage is "cooler" but thats really the only argument to not have a full face

Sucks for them. Maybe if a billionaire fan of hockey had interest he/she would support a league ?
 

Burke the Legend

Registered User
Feb 22, 2012
8,317
2,850
CWHL Board has posted a final open letter:

http://www.thecwhl.com/CWHL_Final_Public_Communication July_2_2019_FINAL_630pm.pdf

We learn among others things CWHL had a non-profit status in order to qualify as Registered Canadian Amateur Athletic Association to benefit from Hockey Canada Insurance and I assume tax advantages. This status was problematic for a potential merger with NWHL which is for-profit.

After folding, two offers were put forward to purchase the league for $20 (yeah $20 there is no K or M missing there) without taking on liabilities. Ultimately league auctioned assets for $93 000 which went to pay players, staff and creditors. We don't know how much in total debt the league was carrying but we know "donors" helped pay for $230 000 of outstanding bonuses.

To run the league Professionally, around $10M would be required. For 2017-18 expenses were 4.2M (why not provide numbers for last season?). A lot of other interesting info is included.

Not long ago one of major sponsors Graeme Roustan was openly very critical of the Board financial management which led him to cut ties. This is not addressed in this letter nor is he thanked for past support.

[edit] Just did a quick search on CRA for Registered Canadian Amateur Athletic Association and they are eligible to issue donation receipts which effectively made them a "charity".

Canadian amateur athletic associations - Canada.ca

Still think there must have been serious management problems. Roustan was paying all the bills and demanded they show him the books. They preferred to fold instead of providing their statements. Very suspicious.
 

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