CWHL to discontinue operations

[frivolousz21]

100k and lil boys are threatened. Oh my

 

[Pilky01]

What you're describing is a mandatory contribution from the NHL to women's hockey. But it isn't a matter of health, education, infrastructure and women playing hockey aren't a socially disadvantaged group so I don't see a reason to demand it. Outside of such cases you can't demand business to run like a charity.

Who is making demands?

I’m only pointing out that if the NHL were as committed to women’s hockey as they like the present themselves as then they would be doing a lot more than spending one team’s stick budget on it.

 

[Huck Cheever]

Who is making demands?

I’m only pointing out that if the NHL were as committed to women’s hockey as they like the present themselves as then they would be doing a lot more than spending one team’s stick budget on it.

Perhaps you can invest your own monies...

Jus sayin

 

[Pilky01]

Perhaps you can invest your own monies...

Jus sayin

Before I make any decisions let me consult with my corporate branding officer, chief budget officer and female hockey advisory committee.

Gender Equality Month Female Hockey Advisory Committeee

I wouldnt be surprised if the NHL is spending more money on this kind of corporate outreach "advisory board" than it would cost them to fund a 6-8 team women's pro hockey league.

 

[SCBlueLiner]

A lot of posters here are really loving the "equal pay" straw man with this issue. I already discredited that earlier in this topic by pointing out that the best Arsenal women's player might make 35K/year whereas the highest paid Arsenal man player makes 350K/week.

The NHL could run a parallel women's league using the spare change in MLSE's fainting couch.

It's a completely different country with different laws regarding equality in pay. There have already been several examples offered in this thread about women pushing the envelope here in the USA and Canada regarding "equal pay". USA Women's Hockey team, US Women's National Soccer team.

Truth is that women have been their own worst enemies when it comes to this. Give an inch, take a mile. Nobody has the "right" to get paid to play hockey, much less at a level that far exceeds the revenues they generate.

 

[Burke the Legend]

Who is making demands?

I’m only pointing out that if the NHL were as committed to women’s hockey as they like the present themselves as then they would be doing a lot more than spending one team’s stick budget on it.

I don't think you understand how this works for a business. NHL has a budget of X$ amount for basically charity programs. The owners are human and would love to spend $500k I'm sure on the NWHL but there's other stuff they like to send money to also, like $ for US inner city hockey programs, or $ for native programs in Northern Canada, or $ to financially assist municipal youth (boy & girl) hockey infrastructure sunbelt states that lack arena infrastructure, etc. These are all worthy causes for NHL support. If the NHL does well and expand revenue/profit surely that budget will be moved accordingly, and individual club owners are free to spend further on sponsorships. I'm sure all these programs are evaluated on an annual basis for effectiveness too, the partners will be evaluated on how well a job they will do (might be wary of giving the NWHL admin a tonne of money given their variable record) before extra spending is authorized, and yes there will be a 'vulgar' bang-for-buck evaluation also for each program. So it will be a factor of consideration if the native hockey program is getting great exposure/results vs. women's pro, then a marketing angle beyond just simple charitable considerations comes into play.

For a proper business all this actuarial stuff has to be accounted even in charitable giving, that's what management is being paid to do, and if it wasn't being done properly you would seriously wonder what other elements of the venture are out of control messes also. Not a recipe for long term success.

 

[SCBlueLiner]

I'd rather the NHL dump the vast millions you are proposing they dump into a women's hockey league into lowering the cost of youth hockey in North America. Instead of spending money for women to play "professional" hockey the NHL could use that money to construct one or two rinks every year in markets all across the USA and Canada, rinks that would be subsidized and operated at insanely cheap ice costs. The cost for an hour of ice in Chicago is about $450/hour. It is cost prohibitive for many families to have their kids play hockey when ice costs, equipment costs, etc. are as high as they are.

If the NHL wants to make a difference and grow the game they could start by doing things to keep the cost down. Instead costs to play youth hockey in this country keep going up and up. USA Hockey is financially supporting the US Women's team and paying those players. Why are the registration fees I am paying so my kids can play hockey going to pay their salaries? Shouldn't those funds be going towards making the game more accessible to more players? Wouldn't a better use of those funds be to fund a grant program or low interest revolving loan fund that can be tapped into to build and repair rinks all across the country thereby lowering ice costs?

 

[Burke the Legend]

USA Hockey is financially supporting the US Women's team and paying those players. Why are the registration fees I am paying so my kids can play hockey going to pay their salaries? Shouldn't those funds be going towards making the game more accessible to more players? Wouldn't a better use of those funds be to fund a grant program or low interest revolving loan fund that can be tapped into to build and repair rinks all across the country thereby lowering ice costs?

USA hockey is going to pay a price for caving into the womens team salary demands IMO. It is disrespectful to parents struggling to put kids through expensive youth hockey programs to take their dues and give it to these wannabee professionals, very dubious logic and if they put it to referendum I doubt the decision would be very popular. USA Hockey has rivals like the AAU, and they will lose members to them over this kind of thing.

 

[dynasty3]

If the occupation one chooses to do for their life doesnt pay enough to make a living, tough. It is best to choose a different line of work. It is not about gender equality or giving women a chance to play professional hockey. They are adults and can decide what is the best direction for their life based on the viable options available. It is not up to the NHL to put up money for a league in which they will lose money just to serve this type of cause. Leagues generally fold for one reason, no one cares to watch it.

Female sport leagues for the most part is just not something the consumers care to watch or pay for. Professional sports will never have gender pay equality. Pay should be a direct correlation to the income brought in from tickets, sales revenue and tv contracts etc. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

[Pilky01]

100k and lil boys are threatened. Oh my

WONT SOMEBODY THINK OF THE BOYS!?!

I love that on the main boards I am like the most progressive person here but on the old politics board I was basically considered Alt-Right.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

The NHL essentially just funneled the money they had been giving to the CWHL to the NWHL. It's not like the NHL has jumped on board to house millions in loses like the NBA has with the WNBA. The NHL has essentially given the league a 20 and told em to get lost.

the NBA IS FUNNELLING LOSSES TO Raptors 905, Beast Coast, the same franchise that just has been a force in the G-League, AND JUST HAS ONE OF THEIR PLAYERS sweep MVP/Defensive player of the year, and he's from Canada on top of that

 

[TheBeastCoast]

the NBA IS FUNNELLING LOSSES TO Raptors 905, Beast Coast, the same franchise that just has been a force in the G-League, AND JUST HAS ONE OF THEIR PLAYERS sweep MVP/Defensive player of the year, and he's from Canada on top of that

Cool.

 

[TJL48]

WONT SOMEBODY THINK OF THE BOYS!?!

I love that on the main boards I am like the most progressive person here but on the old politics board I was basically considered Alt-Right.

What makes anything about the NHL supporting a women's league progressive? If anything it is the opposite. If it was truly about equality the women's league would run on it's own without all these "progressive" people calling for the NHL to support it. Men's leagues in all sports have closed there doors if they were not profitable. You're saying that this shouldn't happen to this league just because they are women players? That doesn't seem progressive or equal to me.

 

[LeHab]

NHL has already stated they could get involved more if there were no alternatives. Limiting for now to some sponsorship money rather than ownership. They don't want to compete against existing leagues.

 

[LadyStanley]

31 Thoughts: NHL-backed women's league the 'obvious solution' - Sportsnet.ca

Friedman writing what lots are thinking

Last season, the NHL gave $50,000 to each the NWHL and CWHL. Now, with the CWHL no longer in operation, the league will give the full allotment of $100,000 to the NWHL.

But how much more the NHL is willing to do is still unclear. Up until now, the league has made it very clear it will not step in as long as there are options for women to play at the professional level, which is the case now. It does not want to be perceived as picking favourites or bullying. An NHL-backed league, like the WNBA or National Women’s Soccer League, is the obvious solution. Everyone knows it.

This puts the female players and stakeholders in an uncomfortable position. They don’t want to say anything that causes a problem, but they want the NHL to stop waiting. In a year where Kendall Coyne-Schofield was the highlight of All-Star Weekend, capitalize on the momentum. Step in now.

There have been rumours of a player boycott until an NHL-supported entity is created, but no one indicated they think it’s a possibility at this time. There is a theory that instead of searching for a new model, the CWHL pulled the plug to make it easier for the NHL to act.

Conspiracy theorists rejoice.

And that's about the only reason I can think that makes sense.

 

[LadyStanley]

NWHL to investigate adding Canadian teams after CWHL...

Paywall. Some interesting points on $$

According to financial documents obtained by The Athletic, event sales and team sales – including tickets – accounted for only 23 percent of the CWHL’s revenue in 2016-17. Merchandise, meanwhile, made up only 2 percent of league revenues that year.

Combined, those two revenue generators brought in less than donations in kind, which accounted for 26 percent.

So where did the other half of revenue come from?

 

[SCBlueLiner]

USA hockey is going to pay a price for caving into the womens team salary demands IMO. It is disrespectful to parents struggling to put kids through expensive youth hockey programs to take their dues and give it to these wannabee professionals, very dubious logic and if they put it to referendum I doubt the decision would be very popular. USA Hockey has rivals like the AAU, and they will lose members to them over this kind of thing.

Yep. To be fair, there are plenty of people not happy about all the money that gets funneled to the NTDP either. This isn't just a "I hate girls hockey" thing.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

I love women's hockey. There have been stretches I've enjoyed it much more than any men's hockey I've been watching at the time.

I don't see how a professional league can function right now without losing money. I hope they can figure it out though.

 

[Burke the Legend]

NWHL to investigate adding Canadian teams after CWHL...

Paywall. Some interesting points on $$


So where did the other half of revenue come from?

China?

 

[Insomniac99]

I think it's time for women's hockey to allow hitting. They should introduce it this year and try to force international women's hockey to do the same.

 

[LadyStanley]

@Insomniac99 are you fundraising/paying for the increased costs (concussions, etc.) for health and disability insurance?

 

[Bear of Bad News]

I think it's time for women's hockey to allow hitting.

Why?

 

[choirboy]

Introducing hitting in the womens game will do nothing for the viability of a professional league. The demand from the consumers for womens pro hockey will never be there no matter what you bring in. It would still be below Junior B /midget AAA hockey in terms of quality. On par with A or AA Bantam hockey. No one is paying to watch that.

Plus, the current players grew up not playing contact so it would be years before the adjustment to the professional women game to catch up, due to the younger generation. Watching the current squads of the NWHL attempt to play contact hockey now would be more abysmal that it is now.

 

[LeHab]

A few months ago largest investor pulled all money after being denied access to league finances, something he had access to for a decade:

“I requested detailed financial information regarding expenses incurred by the executive committee, specifically, but all directors of the CWHL,” said Roustan, a governor and board member. “For the first time, they rejected my request and refused to provide me with the detailed financial information on director expenditures and reimbursements.”

Venture capitalist Graeme Roustan cuts ties with CWHL | The Star

Why the sudden lack of transparency? There seems to be more but the league didn't wanted to comment on specifics.

“Mr. Roustan’s comments with respect to the refusal of the association to provide any highly detailed information to him in advance of the AGM provides a small, one-sided view of a much larger governance issue between Mr. Roustan and the association,” Walzak said. “It’s regrettable that the differences of opinion between the association and Mr. Roustan has led to his resignation but we’re not going to get into the specifics of his opinion.”

In addition, several key execs have moved away.

Commissioner Brenda Andruss, who brought the lucrative Chinese market into the league, resigned in the spring, replaced on an interim basis by Hall of Famer and former CWHL player Jayna Hefford.
Other well-heeled and well-connected governors — who either open doors to sponsors or write cheques themselves — who have resigned include former Maple Leafs president Brian Burke, former Olympian Cassie Campbell-Pascall, executive director of the Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment Foundation Michael Bartlett, businesswoman Arlene Dickinson and philanthropist Sandi Treliving.
Another five at the director level also left.

Walzak said she would not comment on why so many have left. She did says the result is a new board and a new direction.
“We’re poised for growth and poised for greatness,” Walzak said. “It’s comprised of 11 new, very intelligent, capable and experienced persons. We’re confident in their ability and their passion.”

Looks like they had deeper issues than simply selling on-ice product.

 

[voyageur]

Before I make any decisions let me consult with my corporate branding officer, chief budget officer and female hockey advisory committee.

Gender Equality Month Female Hockey Advisory Committeee

I wouldnt be surprised if the NHL is spending more money on this kind of corporate outreach "advisory board" than it would cost them to fund a 6-8 team women's pro hockey league.

I hope that the NWHL expands. I'd like to see:

East
Buffalo
Detroit
Toronto
Montreal
Boston
New York

West
Minnesota
Chicago
Milwaukee
Winnipeg
Calgary

All supported by their respective NHL teams, Milwaukee by the Preds. The NHL should be promoting women's hockey, and can afford to share revenues, say 1% of general revenues to grow the game in another way.