Cup winners with 1 or less HHOFer

[FissionFire]

He's widely disliked in one city that he played in for one year. The rest of his "dislike" is bitter fans wishing he was on their teams. If cap was not a concern Edmonton most likely be the only team that would not want him on their team and there is not a team he would not be an integral part of(barring injury of course). That speaks wonders about how good of a player he is.

When it comes down to brass tacks Both he and Niedermayer have the hardware and the consistancy in their careers to be in the HoF. Lidstrom will not be the only D-man from their era to go into the hall and these two are obviously top of the pack.

In a "down" era for defenseman, has Pronger really done enough to get into the HHOF? I doubt it. Aside from his Hart/Norris/1st team AS trifecta in 2000, his only individual awards are three 2nd team AS spots (1998, 2004, 2007). So in a "down" era for defenseman, he was viewed as a top 4 defender in the league only 4 times during his career to date (and top 2 only once)? Even during the season his team won the Cup he was far from the teams best player with 2 suspensions and some pretty crappy play in the WCF and SCF. That doesn't scream HHOF to me. Pronger has alot of work to secure a spot IMO.

Niedermayer is likely in on the strength of his overall body of work. He's got a 2nd team AS in 1998 and a trifecta of 1st teams mostly post lockout (2004, 2006, 2007). He's got a Conn Smythe a slew of Cups. Even his actions last season tarnishing some of his luster couldn't keep him out I think. Heck, his resume blows Pronger away. Pronger has most of his awards from one huge season, but aside from that he's been far from a dominant defenseman of the era.

 

[MadArcand]

Funnily enough, while Niedermayer has the edge in awards, I'd still say that Pronger was the better and more dominant defenseman overall. You just don't fear a Scott Niedermayer playing against you.

 

[Kyle McMahon]

The way I see it, Kyle didn't mean that dominant players will be ignored due to their dirtiness. Messier and Howe are two truly dominant forwards and few people would ever question their greatness.

But borderline great players might have their dirtiness used against them as an argument against HHOF induction. These are players with multiple suspensions and several boneheaded events in their resumes (e.g. the aforementioned Ciccarelli slashing incident).

Yes, that's exactly what I meant. As dirty as guys like Howe and Messier may have been, they both in the top 25 all-time (With Howe arguably the best player ever), so it's pretty much impossible to deny their place in the Hall.

 

[seventieslord]

The rest of the dislike is from being one of the dirtiest players around, and the fact that he completely stiffed a franchise certainly isn't going to do him favours. Alexei Yashin's downright illegal holdout from Ottawa didn't win him friends. Everyone around the league hates him for that, not just Ottawa, and not just because he was a skilled player. I still remember Keith Primeau holding Carolina over a barrell, Mike Peca flipping Buffalo the bird, and Jason Allison and Byron Dafoe telling the Bruins to hit the road. I find it rather ammusing that those five examples all saw their careers finish rather pitifully (Peca's still hanging on I suppose). I'm sure I'm not the only hockey fan who holds grudges. I'm not saying being disliked is going to keep you out if you're fulling deserving, but if you're right on the edge your reputation, good or bad, could tilt the balance.

The Yashin situation is completely different. He had a contract and didn't honour it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but these other players were free agents. They were simply doing what the CBA allowed them to do.

 

[Kyle McMahon]

The Yashin situation is completely different. He had a contract and didn't honour it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but these other players were free agents. They were simply doing what the CBA allowed them to do.

They were restricted free agents holding out. Many star players held the non-rich teams hostage that way in the late 90's and early 2000's. You had to either pay the guy what he wanted or trade him. The other teams all new this of course, so you rarely got fair market value for the these players. The players knew they were useless to you on the sidelines, so they could just ask for the moon and force a trade.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

They were restricted free agents holding out. Many star players held the non-rich teams hostage that way in the late 90's and early 2000's. You had to either pay the guy what he wanted or trade him. The other teams all new this of course, so you rarely got fair market value for the these players. The players knew they were useless to you on the sidelines, so they could just ask for the moon and force a trade.

given boston's track record, i'm inclined to side with allison and dafoe. would you take far less than market value to play for that franchise? boston, after all, is hardly a "non-rich team" like buffalo.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

They were restricted free agents holding out. Many star players held the non-rich teams hostage that way in the late 90's and early 2000's. You had to either pay the guy what he wanted or trade him. The other teams all new this of course, so you rarely got fair market value for the these players. The players knew they were useless to you on the sidelines, so they could just ask for the moon and force a trade.

I dont think that many people have a problem with this. These guys should be allowed to make what other GM's are willing to pay them. It was within their rights under the CBA.

 

[Kyle McMahon]

I dont think that many people have a problem with this. These guys should be allowed to make what other GM's are willing to pay them. It was within their rights under the CBA.

My opinion is probably a little biased since I watched the Oilers get shafted by greedy players repeatedly. Fans of the "have" teams like NY, Philly, Toronto, Detroit, etc generally seem to have the same opinion as you. Fans of the 15 or 20 teams that often couldn't afford to keep players they developed in the pre-cap days often harbor some resentment.

 

[Kyle McMahon]

given boston's track record, i'm inclined to side with allison and dafoe. would you take far less than market value to play for that franchise? boston, after all, is hardly a "non-rich team" like buffalo.

True, Jeremy Jacobs had a history of penny-pinching. I think Allison still got something ridiculous like $9 million though, not 100% on that.