Cup winners with 1 or less HHOFer

[Loto68]

Recchi has pros and cons going against him both ways.

If Recchi doesn't get into the Hall it would be a disgrace IMHO. His number are great and they aren't just a case of hanging on with more talented players. 9 times in his career, he lead his team in regular season scoring including the 90-91 season with the Penguins when they won the cup. That year he was also second only to Mario in playoff scoring. The guy has over 500 career goals, nearly 900 assists, and he will have 1400 points by the end of the season (he's 17 away).

 

[VanIslander]

..Khabibulin will never get in IMO...

Never? Another stanley cup or a conn smythe with Chicago this season and he's a likely candidate. And Lecavalier is headed to a HHOF career.

Recchi and Brind'amour will get in I'd bet.

 

[FissionFire]

Never? Another stanley cup or a conn smythe with Chicago this season and he's a likely candidate. And Lecavalier is headed to a HHOF career.

Recchi and Brind'amour will get in I'd bet.

If Khabibulin is getting serious HHOF consideration then I'd expect Chris Osgood to be a near lock.

 

[Sony Eriksson*]

What about Dallas? Modano i think is the closest one to a lock. Zubov and Carbonneau are a high possibility. Ed Belfour, Nieuwendyk i think fall short of a nod.

 

[weaponomega]

What about Dallas? Modano i think is the closest one to a lock. Zubov and Carbonneau are a high possibility. Ed Belfour, Nieuwendyk i think fall short of a nod.

I think Belfour is a lock to get in.

2 time Vezina Winner
2 time First all-star
1 Second all star
Calder Trophy
1 Cup
Finalist for the Hart in 91'
3rd all-time in Wins

Zubov and Carbonneau won't get in.

 

[Sony Eriksson*]

I think Belfour is a lock to get in.

2 time Vezina Winner
2 time First all-star
1 Second all star
Calder Trophy
1 Cup
Finalist for the Hart in 91'
3rd all-time in Wins

Zubov and Carbonneau won't get in.

You don't think his off ice fiasco's will prevent him to get in?

I will still stick to my guns and say Zubov will get in.

 

[MadArcand]

Belfour belongs and will get in. Fourth best of his generation, yeah, but there's no shame in being behind Hasek, Brodeur and Roy. His resume is impressive, and his off-ice antics IMO quite irrelevant and more of the amusing sort anyway.

 

[Epsilon]

Rod Brind'Amour will be given a considerable look for the HHOF. Recchi will make it in. Weight will make the USA hockey hall of fame.

Glen Wesley is another guy that gets underrated. He had a very long and industrious career and is among the Top 16 all time in games played. He may get a look in a down year but it's doubtful. Played on a pairing with Bourque. All-Rookie team member. Meh. Not a lot there that jumps out except the games played.

Too early to call on Ward and Staal.

Glen Wesley's name will probably never even be brought up for discussion, let alone given a look. "Played on a pairing with Bourque"? "All-Rookie team"? That is some of the must irrelevant stuff I've ever seen brought up in a Hall of Fame argument.

 

[Kyle McMahon]

Who doesn't like him? The fans? Media?

Not too sure about the media, but yes he seems to be quite unpopular with the fans, aside from those in St. Louis and Anaheim. As far as I can tell, he is not well liked at all by his fellow players. I have seen several call him the dirtiest player in the league.

On Off The Record, former teammate Todd Harvey let it slip that Pronger had "a girlfriend or something" with a big grin on his face when questioned about Pronger's famous departure. Players generally have each other's backs in those sorts of situations when rumours are flying around, so for Harvey to basically come and let the cat out of the bag like that indicates to me that Pronger was truly detested in that Oiler locker room, long reputed to be one of the tightest knit groups in the NHL.

There are jerks that get elected to the HOF, but in a borderline case, which I believe Pronger's is, repuatation can be the deciding factor. Pronger's repuatation is, in a word, terrible.

 

[BlueBeard]

Not too sure about the media, but yes he seems to be quite unpopular with the fans, aside from those in St. Louis and Anaheim. As far as I can tell, he is not well liked at all by his fellow players. I have seen several call him the dirtiest player in the league.

On Off The Record, former teammate Todd Harvey let it slip that Pronger had "a girlfriend or something" with a big grin on his face when questioned about Pronger's famous departure. Players generally have each other's backs in those sorts of situations when rumours are flying around, so for Harvey to basically come and let the cat out of the bag like that indicates to me that Pronger was truly detested in that Oiler locker room, long reputed to be one of the tightest knit groups in the NHL.

There are jerks that get elected to the HOF, but in a borderline case, which I believe Pronger's is, repuatation can be the deciding factor. Pronger's repuatation is, in a word, terrible.

So heresay from a team where he spent one season out of his fifteen year career is enough to keep him out of the Hall? Not to mention one of those teams where he's lliked he spent almost a decade.

You want to talk about him taking stupid penalties, and borderline dirty player fine(chelios isn't a saint either and he's arguably a top 10 d-man of all time). But name me one D-man not named Lidstrom that brings what Pronger does to the Blueline. Weak era for D-man or not Lidstrom won't be the only dman from this era to get in. Both he and Nieds have the accomplishments to first ballot will depend on when and who they retire with.

 

[MS]

What about Dallas? Modano i think is the closest one to a lock. Zubov and Carbonneau are a high possibility. Ed Belfour, Nieuwendyk i think fall short of a nod.

Belfour is a dead lock and Modano's chances are probably up around 90%. It would be shocking if either guy didn't get in. Nieuwendyk (although I think he's somewhat over-rated) probably has a better than 50/50 chance of induction.

Zubov and Carbonneau have maybe a 10% chance, and that's being generous. Neither guy will make it, unless Carbonneau wins a Cup as a head coach and he gets in on his combined playing/coaching resume.

Because for the first 10 years of his career, he wasn't a top 10 defenseman in the league?

He gets the benefit of having played very well in his later years, which raises him up in the minds of many people. It's the "what have you done for me lately" treatment, which also props up Rod Brind'amour, who frankly has no merit for being in the HOF (coming from a HUGE Brind'amour fan). People forget that during the first 10+ years of these guys' careers, they were not star players.

Meanwhile, guys who dominated the league for the majority of their careers, but finished off slowly, are often left behind in HOF talk or are not given enough credit (i.e. they are called "borderline" HOFers, when they clearly deserve to be in). Such players, IMO, include Lindros, Belfour (people forget that aside from Hasek and Roy, no one was better during the 1990s), and to a lesser extent, guys like Roenick, Fedorov (luckily, he usually excapes this, but there are still people who don't think he belongs in the HOF) and Kariya.

The comparative positions of Roenick and Brind'Amour are the best examples of this.

They were drafted in the same year, broke in in the same year. In the 15 seasons each played before the lockout, Roenick was the better player in 14 of them. It wasn't even close. But because Brind'Amour has turned in some good years at an advanced age while Roenick has faded, I think if you polled this board you'd find more support for Brind'Amour as an HHOF guy. Which is just patently ridiculous.

 

[Kyle McMahon]

So heresay from a team where he spent one season out of his fifteen year career is enough to keep him out of the Hall? Not to mention one of those teams where he's lliked he spent almost a decade.

You want to talk about him taking stupid penalties, and borderline dirty player fine(chelios isn't a saint either and he's arguably a top 10 d-man of all time). But name me one D-man not named Lidstrom that brings what Pronger does to the Blueline. Weak era for D-man or not Lidstrom won't be the only dman from this era to get in. Both he and Nieds have the accomplishments to first ballot will depend on when and who they retire with.

I'll I'm saying is the guy is widely disliked, and that could play a role. If he was a model NHL citizen, his chances would be better, simple as that. He's certainly not a lock for the Hall, that was my main point in the first place.

 

[cptjeff]

Glen Wesley's name will probably never even be brought up for discussion, let alone given a look. "Played on a pairing with Bourque"? "All-Rookie team"? That is some of the must irrelevant stuff I've ever seen brought up in a Hall of Fame argument.

I first of all, doubt that he will get in.

However, he played as a top shutdown guy in the NHL playing very effectively against guys like Ovechkin and Crosby up until his retirement. He's never put up a ton of numbers, but he's been very good in the back end.
20 years as a top pairing quality guy says something.

He would be a lock for the Hall of very good players who didn't grab much attention but did their job very, very well, and it's good to see him getting his number retired.


Brind'Amour? One of the best defensive forwards to play in recent years. Add to that one of the more clutch guys in the NHL, and a very long career at a high level. 2 consecutive selkes... He'll get a pretty serious look. But with some of the guys they don't take like Bure, who knows what the standard is. But I think he has about a 50% chance.

And Ward could do it- he's shown flashes and stretches of Vezina quality play. If he could play like that on a more consistent basis, he could be a great. However, at this point he really isn't in the discussion.

 

[DaveG]

Because for the first 10 years of his career, he wasn't a top 10 defenseman in the league?

He gets the benefit of having played very well in his later years, which raises him up in the minds of many people. It's the "what have you done for me lately" treatment, which also props up Rod Brind'amour, who frankly has no merit for being in the HOF (coming from a HUGE Brind'amour fan). People forget that during the first 10+ years of these guys' careers, they were not star players.

Meanwhile, guys who dominated the league for the majority of their careers, but finished off slowly, are often left behind in HOF talk or are not given enough credit (i.e. they are called "borderline" HOFers, when they clearly deserve to be in). Such players, IMO, include Lindros, Belfour (people forget that aside from Hasek and Roy, no one was better during the 1990s), and to a lesser extent, guys like Roenick, Fedorov (luckily, he usually excapes this, but there are still people who don't think he belongs in the HOF) and Kariya.

I'll disagree with you on Brind'Amour simply based on his totals and his reputation as a two-way player. 1250 points in 1500 games (what I'm projecting him to end his career with) isn't much to write home about as an offensive player. But the guy has two Selke's, pretty decent post-season numbers and probably deserved the Conn Smythe in 05-06 while captaining the Canes to the cup. Two-way players don't get much recognition but he (and Fedorov thankfully) will have good enough totals to garner legitimate HoF discussion.

 

[Big Phil]

Never? Another stanley cup or a conn smythe with Chicago this season and he's a likely candidate. And Lecavalier is headed to a HHOF career.

Recchi and Brind'amour will get in I'd bet.

A Stanley Cup with Chicago? I think Bill Wirtz even laughed from his grave on that one. Seriously though, Khabibulin has done nothing to deserve a future HHOF nod

 

[Big Phil]

You don't think his off ice fiasco's will prevent him to get in?

I will still stick to my guns and say Zubov will get in.

No, despite Belfour headlocking a hotel security guard and then bribing him wtih allegedly a billion dollars he's too good to ignore. No goalie with two Vezinas and a Cup would be denied. Plus his career wins help. A borderline case is Dino Ciccarelli. On stats alone you can go either way with him (although I tend to deny him) but it didnt help that he slashed Luke Richardson over the head and got caught walking out of his front door without any pants on in which he was charged with both cases

 

[BlueBeard]

I'll I'm saying is the guy is widely disliked, and that could play a role. If he was a model NHL citizen, his chances would be better, simple as that. He's certainly not a lock for the Hall, that was my main point in the first place.

He's widely disliked in one city that he played in for one year. The rest of his "dislike" is bitter fans wishing he was on their teams. If cap was not a concern Edmonton most likely be the only team that would not want him on their team and there is not a team he would not be an integral part of(barring injury of course). That speaks wonders about how good of a player he is.

When it comes down to brass tacks Both he and Niedermayer have the hardware and the consistancy in their careers to be in the HoF. Lidstrom will not be the only D-man from their era to go into the hall and these two are obviously top of the pack.

 

[weaponomega]

You don't think his off ice fiasco's will prevent him to get in?

I will still stick to my guns and say Zubov will get in.

I don't think Belfour's extracurricular activities will prevent him from reaching the hall. They're really not that big of a deal especially when you look back 10 or 15 years from now.

I don't see Zubov getting in.

He's been a consistent scorer in the NHL, but I don't think he's been as consistently reliable defensively earlier in his career as he has been later in his career. Add to that he's never been a serious contender for a Norris and only has one post season all-star selection.

 

[Kyle McMahon]

He's widely disliked in one city that he played in for one year. The rest of his "dislike" is bitter fans wishing he was on their teams. If cap was not a concern Edmonton most likely be the only team that would not want him on their team and there is not a team he would not be an integral part of(barring injury of course). That speaks wonders about how good of a player he is.

When it comes down to brass tacks Both he and Niedermayer have the hardware and the consistancy in their careers to be in the HoF. Lidstrom will not be the only D-man from their era to go into the hall and these two are obviously top of the pack.

The rest of the dislike is from being one of the dirtiest players around, and the fact that he completely stiffed a franchise certainly isn't going to do him favours. Alexei Yashin's downright illegal holdout from Ottawa didn't win him friends. Everyone around the league hates him for that, not just Ottawa, and not just because he was a skilled player. I still remember Keith Primeau holding Carolina over a barrell, Mike Peca flipping Buffalo the bird, and Jason Allison and Byron Dafoe telling the Bruins to hit the road. I find it rather ammusing that those five examples all saw their careers finish rather pitifully (Peca's still hanging on I suppose). I'm sure I'm not the only hockey fan who holds grudges. I'm not saying being disliked is going to keep you out if you're fulling deserving, but if you're right on the edge your reputation, good or bad, could tilt the balance.

 

[Randall Graves*]

The rest of the dislike is from being one of the dirtiest players around, and the fact that he completely stiffed a franchise certainly isn't going to do him favours. Alexei Yashin's downright illegal holdout from Ottawa didn't win him friends. Everyone around the league hates him for that, not just Ottawa, and not just because he was a skilled player. I still remember Keith Primeau holding Carolina over a barrell, Mike Peca flipping Buffalo the bird, and Jason Allison and Byron Dafoe telling the Bruins to hit the road. I find it rather ammusing that those five examples all saw their careers finish rather pitifully (Peca's still hanging on I suppose). I'm sure I'm not the only hockey fan who holds grudges. I'm not saying being disliked is going to keep you out if you're fulling deserving, but if you're right on the edge your reputation, good or bad, could tilt the balance.

Mark Messier, Gordie Howe...two of the dirtiest players of their eras...are HOF'ers, of course it's rarely pointed out..

 

[mrhockey193195]

I'll disagree with you on Brind'Amour simply based on his totals and his reputation as a two-way player. 1250 points in 1500 games (what I'm projecting him to end his career with) isn't much to write home about as an offensive player. But the guy has two Selke's, pretty decent post-season numbers and probably deserved the Conn Smythe in 05-06 while captaining the Canes to the cup. Two-way players don't get much recognition but he (and Fedorov thankfully) will have good enough totals to garner legitimate HoF discussion.

Agreed to a certain extent, I don't disagree on the point that he should garner consideration. But there's no denying Brind'amour's "legacy" took off post-lockout. While he was widely considered to be an excellent two-way player his whole career, and one of the best 2nd-line centers in the game, I can't see why he deserves to get in more than someone like JR, and definitely can't see why he deserves to get in if Lindros is left out.

This isn't Sergei Federov we're talking about. This isn't a player who, at any point in time, was in the top 10 or even top 20 in the league. I personally don't see why a guy like that should be in that Hall of Fame, despite his pretty good numbers. Had he been considered in the same esteem as his is right now, for his whole career, than he'd have a much, much better argument for being inducted.

 

[mrhockey193195]

He's widely disliked in one city that he played in for one year. The rest of his "dislike" is bitter fans wishing he was on their teams. If cap was not a concern Edmonton most likely be the only team that would not want him on their team and there is not a team he would not be an integral part of(barring injury of course). That speaks wonders about how good of a player he is.

When it comes down to brass tacks Both he and Niedermayer have the hardware and the consistancy in their careers to be in the HoF. Lidstrom will not be the only D-man from their era to go into the hall and these two are obviously top of the pack.

Again, not to beat a dead horse, but where was Niedermayer "consistent" in his first 10 years in the league? Yea, he was a consistent player on the ice. But he was also consistently outside of the top 10 best defensemen in the league.

Leetch
Chelios
Lidstrom
Stevens
D. Hatcher
Foote
Blake
Bourque
Murphy
Pronger
MacInnis
Desjardins
Zubov
Suter

Those are just a few that come to mind, I'm sure there are other big names that I forgot.

 

[Randall Graves*]

Again, not to beat a dead horse, but where was Niedermayer "consistent" in his first 10 years in the league? Yea, he was a consistent player on the ice. But he was also consistently outside of the top 10 best defensemen in the league.

Leetch
Chelios
Lidstrom
Stevens
D. Hatcher
Foote
Blake
Bourque
Murphy
Pronger
MacInnis
Desjardins
Zubov
Suter

Those are just a few that come to mind, I'm sure there are other big names that I forgot.

I'd say since 2000/2001 he's easily been a top 3-10 D.
I remember in 2003 alot of people thought he'd win the Conn Smythe.

 

[mrhockey193195]

I'd say since 2000/2001 he's easily been a top 3-10 D.
I remember in 2003 alot of people thought he'd win the Conn Smythe.

I would say that he was around the top 10 in 2001, and broke top 10 (and basically top 3) in 2003. He's been there since.

Listen, I'm not trying to bash Niedermayer. In fact, I think he deserves great consideration for the hall. All I'm saying is, NO one should call him a lock seeing how as accomplished, if not more accomplished players are being considered "doubtful" or "borderline."

 

[Howe Elbows 9]

Mark Messier, Gordie Howe...two of the dirtiest players of their eras...are HOF'ers, of course it's rarely pointed out..

The way I see it, Kyle didn't mean that dominant players will be ignored due to their dirtiness. Messier and Howe are two truly dominant forwards and few people would ever question their greatness.

But borderline great players might have their dirtiness used against them as an argument against HHOF induction. These are players with multiple suspensions and several boneheaded events in their resumes (e.g. the aforementioned Ciccarelli slashing incident).