Cup of Hope (Kubok Nadezhdy) 2013 [parallel to the Gagarin Cup]

[SoundAndFury]

Once again: UEFA Europa League is not comparable to the "Cup of Hope". It's a separate tournament right from the start.

It is very much comparable, frankly they ARE almost identical although the fact that is basically a tournament of losers is better disguised in the Europa League. As you may or may not know 8 teams from Champions League are even given a chance to compete in Europa League after missing the play-offs and bunch of teams are given the same chance after failing to qualify to the CL.

But the real problem is that Europa League was never regarded as a very good idea between the football fans in the first place. For example, English teams never gave a crap about it because it's irrelevant to their goals, just some tournament you can play your young players; pretty much no one watches it on TV; money you get from playing in the EL is like 1/8 from what would you get from playing in the CL and so on.

In UEFA's defense, for them it's a way to shed more money between European clubs basing it on the sporting principle instead of just simply giving it away. And some clubs in smaller football nations benefit from it, when, for example, some small Czech club gets to play against Chelsea.

But what's the point of it in the KHL where everyone plays in the same league anyway?

 

[ozo]

I don't understand what the hell are you talking about in the highlighted part about basic facts, exaggerations and ridiculous comparisons. Swedes could as well do without Kvalserien, just relegated some teams from Elitserien and bring new ones from Allsvenskan and that's all. Still they've created this tournment which is a big deal in the towns it is played. Why can't KHL create a tournament for teams that did not make the play-offs. I don't understand what kind of facts and exaggerations are you talking about?

Of course the way how the cup was introduced was stupid, Pejorative Slured, completely idiotic, wrong etc. So what? The way how the cup was introduced certainly left an impact on how these ''losers' playoffs'' happened but if such a tournament is still being played next year nobody will remember... Just like 0 people today are concerned with KHL logo while when it was introduced all kinds of people rose up against the ''stupid look'' of it. The same with the Opening Cup (now Lokomotiv Cup), a great idea but also, at the beginning, met with a lot of boos and angry, snarky comments... This year when the league started and Dynamo faced Avangard in the first game of the season everybody was glued to TV screens to see the game and were happy that the game was really good. If there was no Opening Cup, no certain advertized season opener in KHL, nobody here in Riga would care to switch on the TV if Dinamo wasn't playing on that day.

This cup does not in any way impact the fact that Gagrin Cup is and still will be the main trophy for any team and making play-offs will be more important than winning the Cup of Hope. Some idiots on Latvian sports portal laughed about the fact that Atlant was out of play-offs faster than Dinamo Rīga even started the real fight for this "losers' cup". Well guess what- Latvian Hockey Championship final ended just yesterday while Dinamo's season has been over for a while already. Does that mean that anyone thought this final was more interesting that the final of Cup of Hope?? Three people probably thought so and three people probably also thought that the Cup of Hope final was more important than Gagarin play-offs... But that's always the case in any sport.

Nobody cared about the Cup of Hope in the cities that were in the play-offs and nobody cared for the Cup of Hope in the cities where there were no teams at all. But people from all these cities, including ones in the Cup of Hope, still followed and follow KHL play-offs, so I don't see where's the problem.

In short, in what way ozo do you think the ''ultimate dream'' will shift from making play-offs = fight for the Gagarin, to Cup of Hope? How do you imagine it happening? Do you think Amur Khabarovsk will go into the season thinking really considering whether to aim for play-offs or Cup of Hope?? That's ridiculous. Vorky already mentioned Europa League, nobody who has a chance at Champions League top 16 go into the group stage thinking - I guess we will not fight till the end and just settle for 3rd place in the group to play in a less prestigious tournament and maybe win it...

What this cup might be able to do though is:
1) increase post regular season interest in KHL (including play-offs) in cities that have not made play-offs
2) small teams who see they won't make play-offs will not sell off their stars thinking that at least the still have a shot at Hope's.
3) give a chance for smaller teams to try out their youth, practice play-off hockey

All these things would bring benefits to KHL parity of teams in future.

I won't split your post in atoms so here goes. Comparision with Kvalserien is stupid because it has huge consequences to the teams participating in them hence the love from the fans and media. How can you not see it? Nadezhda has exactly zero consequences on the next season.

Also cup being pretty redundant, I can't understand how can you imagine some youngsters having a first playoff experience in this cup? They are basically exhibition games, what playoff hockey is there?

Fan interest also is pretty low, haven't seen any official numbers, but even Amur lost their sellout streak in spectacular fashion. Of course I won't no one cared at all, but the fact that this discussion is ongoing just proves that this cup will be never viewed as anything noteworthy.

P.S. All that said I would be completely for some kind of classic cup competition being set up. All teams participating, blind draw, competition last season long, so one round per month. No stupid system, one game only (or something as simple, so no 2+2 schemes, OT's after lost games, etc) - winner advances. That would be unique and interesting for the right reasons, it would be sentimentally European thing.

 

[Theokritos]

It is very much comparable, frankly they ARE almost identical

I strongly disagree. Mostly because:

what's the point of it in the KHL where everyone plays in the same league anyway?

Exactly. If Dinamo Riga etc played in a "Cup of Hope" with Allmännan IK, EHC Kloten, Oulun Kärpät and Augsburger Panthers, then the comparison would make sense. Even more sense if better teams (ranking higher in their domestic leagues) were involved. But you only have teams from one and the same league which makes the whole enterprise pointless.

As you may or may not know 8 teams from Champions League are even given a chance to compete in Europa League after missing the play-offs and bunch of teams are given the same chance after failing to qualify to the CL.

I'm aware of that. Yes, that's where the KHL comparison comes from. It's still not the same though. See above.

But the real problem is that Europa League was never regarded as a very good idea between the football fans in the first place.

The real problem was that no-one cared for the UEFA Cup anymore because the Champions League was expanded to include 32 teams. The UEFA had to do something about it. Turning the Cup into the Europa League actually did the whole thing a favour. Maybe not in the eyes of English fans though.